Welcome to BaseballBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase

 
   Baseball Forums (Home) -> Philadelphia Phillies RSS
Next:  worst Phillies since '64, part 0 of 12  
Author Message
wroehl

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 59



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:54 pm
Post subject: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>phila-phillies (more info?)

My recent memories of Rico Brogna, Travis Lee, Gregg Jefferies, and
Ricky Jordan had colored my percpetion of the Phillies ability to find
talented first basemen. Since 1964 the Phillies have had over a dozen
years of great production from first base and probably another dozen
plus years of very good performance from their first basemen.

Dick Allen had six or seven monster years at first for the Phillies.
Thome and Howard also contributed a number of great seasons playing
first. Kruk had some great seasons at the position, as did Schmidt in
his full year at 1B. Just below this level of production the Phillies
received a number of very good years from Deron Johnson, Ritchie
Hebner, Pete Rose, and Von Hayes as starting first basemen.

On the other hand, the Phillies suffered through a number of bad
seasons by Tom Hutton, Bobby Tolan, and Jose Cardenal as part-time
starters at first. And then there are the dozen or so seasons that
the beforementioned Rico, Travis, Gregg, and Ricky produced league
average, or lower, offense from what should be a power position.

My nominees for worst seasons at first base since '64 are . . .

#4 the Deron Johnson--Tom Hutton tag-team in 1972. Johnson had 230
ab in his last season in Philly and posted an OPS+ of 83. Hutton had
381 ab and posted an OPS+ of 97. I'm including this season since
Hutton's mediocre performance seems to have convinced the Phils that
he was a valuable major leaguer and should be kept around, and worse,
given hundreds of at-bats, over the next several years.

#3 the Dick Allen--Tom Hutton--Bobby Tolan three headed first baseman
of 1976. Allen was very good in limited playing time--298 ab, 131 OPS
+. Hutton contributed a 77 OPS+ in 124 ab while Tolan came through
with a 76 OPS+ in 110 ab.

#2 Ricky Jordan, 1990. 324 ab, .241 average, .277 on-base
percentage, and .352 slugging percentage. five homers, 44 rbi and an
OPS+ of 73.

#1 And what seems to be the worst season of play at first base during
this period, Pete Rose in 1983. No home runs, 14 doubles in 493 at
bats. An average of .245, an on-base percentage of .316, and a
"slugging" percentage of .286. Rose, who had a very good full season
for the Phils in 1979 and a good 2/3rds of a season in strike-
shortened 1981, was not an offensive force later in his career with
the Phils. First base was not a strength for the '83 Phillies.
Rose's understudy, Tony Perez, put up the same on-base percentage and
showed a little more power with 6 homers and 11 doubles in 253 ab.
Len Matuszek a very late season (after post-season rosters were set)
call-up slugged .525 in 80 at bats and was starting over Rose and
Perez in the season's critical final weeks.

Overall, about one-half of the time the Phils have gotten a great, or
at least very good, performance from their first baseman or men. On
the other hand, there have been some real stinkers in there, too.

Next--second base.

wes

 >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dennis

External


Since: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 19



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, wro... DeleteThis @temple.edu wrote:
> My recent memories of Rico Brogna, Travis Lee, Gregg Jefferies, and
> Ricky Jordan had colored my percpetion of the Phillies ability to find
> talented first basemen. Since 1964 the Phillies have had over a dozen
> years of great production from first base and probably another dozen
> plus years of very good performance from their first basemen.
>
> Dick Allen had six or seven monster years at first for the Phillies.
> Thome and Howard also contributed a number of great seasons playing
> first. Kruk had some great seasons at the position, as did Schmidt in
> his full year at 1B. Just below this level of production the Phillies
> received a number of very good years from Deron Johnson, Ritchie
> Hebner, Pete Rose, and Von Hayes as starting first basemen.
>
> On the other hand, the Phillies suffered through a number of bad
> seasons by Tom Hutton, Bobby Tolan, and Jose Cardenal as part-time
> starters at first. And then there are the dozen or so seasons that
> the beforementioned Rico, Travis, Gregg, and Ricky produced league
> average, or lower, offense from what should be a power position.
>
> My nominees for worst seasons at first base since '64 are . . .
>
> #4 the Deron Johnson--Tom Hutton tag-team in 1972. Johnson had 230
> ab in his last season in Philly and posted an OPS+ of 83. Hutton had
> 381 ab and posted an OPS+ of 97. I'm including this season since
> Hutton's mediocre performance seems to have convinced the Phils that
> he was a valuable major leaguer and should be kept around, and worse,
> given hundreds of at-bats, over the next several years.
>
> #3 the Dick Allen--Tom Hutton--Bobby Tolan three headed first baseman
> of 1976. Allen was very good in limited playing time--298 ab, 131 OPS
> +. Hutton contributed a 77 OPS+ in 124 ab while Tolan came through
> with a 76 OPS+ in 110 ab.
>
> #2 Ricky Jordan, 1990. 324 ab, .241 average, .277 on-base
> percentage, and .352 slugging percentage. five homers, 44 rbi and an
> OPS+ of 73.
>
> #1 And what seems to be the worst season of play at first base during
> this period, Pete Rose in 1983. No home runs, 14 doubles in 493 at
> bats. An average of .245, an on-base percentage of .316, and a
> "slugging" percentage of .286. Rose, who had a very good full season
> for the Phils in 1979 and a good 2/3rds of a season in strike-
> shortened 1981, was not an offensive force later in his career with
> the Phils. First base was not a strength for the '83 Phillies.
> Rose's understudy, Tony Perez, put up the same on-base percentage and
> showed a little more power with 6 homers and 11 doubles in 253 ab.
> Len Matuszek a very late season (after post-season rosters were set)
> call-up slugged .525 in 80 at bats and was starting over Rose and
> Perez in the season's critical final weeks.
>
> Overall, about one-half of the time the Phils have gotten a great, or
> at least very good, performance from their first baseman or men. On
> the other hand, there have been some real stinkers in there, too.
>
> Next--second base.
>
> wes

I would have bet that Brogna would have one of the worst 4 seasons,
but
I suppose his mediocrity pales in comparison to some of the other
efforts
that don't even meet mediocrity.

Dennis

 >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase 
Back to top
Login to vote
wroehl

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 59



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:32 am
Post subject: Re: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Error in my original post. I misread my notes. Dick Allen didn't
play first until the last season of his first term with the Phillies.
Dick Stuart and Bill White handled the position 1965--1968. They
appear to have been the Rico Brogna and Travis Lee's of their day.

I also need to revise my list for bad play at first base. #1A has to
be the team effort in 1964. If anything really cost the Phils that
year the fact that they played 9 different players at firstbase--none
of whom were very good--has to be an overlooked factor. John
Hernstein hit 6 home runs and had 25 rbis in 303 at-bats (an 82 OPS
+). Rubin Amaro slugged .250 in 184 at-bats while Sievers and Powers
did little better slugging .325 and .292, respectively. Frank Thomas
did slug 517 but in only 143 at-bats.

I'll try to avoid such gross errors in future posts.

Wes
 >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase 
Back to top
Login to vote
Coffeehouse Schmuck

External


Since: Jun 08, 2007
Posts: 208



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

what about our first baseman in `1950 what about 1915 ?
we went to the dance in those years




On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, wro... RemoveThis @temple.edu wrote:
> My recent memories of Rico Brogna, Travis Lee, Gregg Jefferies, and
> Ricky Jordan had colored my percpetion of the Phillies ability to find
> talented first basemen. Since 1964 the Phillies have had over a dozen
> years of great production from first base and probably another dozen
> plus years of very good performance from their first basemen.
>
> Dick Allen had six or seven monster years at first for the Phillies.
> Thome and Howard also contributed a number of great seasons playing
> first. Kruk had some great seasons at the position, as did Schmidt in
> his full year at 1B. Just below this level of production the Phillies
> received a number of very good years from Deron Johnson, Ritchie
> Hebner, Pete Rose, and Von Hayes as starting first basemen.
>
> On the other hand, the Phillies suffered through a number of bad
> seasons by Tom Hutton, Bobby Tolan, and Jose Cardenal as part-time
> starters at first. And then there are the dozen or so seasons that
> the beforementioned Rico, Travis, Gregg, and Ricky produced league
> average, or lower, offense from what should be a power position.
>
> My nominees for worst seasons at first base since '64 are . . .
>
> #4 the Deron Johnson--Tom Hutton tag-team in 1972. Johnson had 230
> ab in his last season in Philly and posted an OPS+ of 83. Hutton had
> 381 ab and posted an OPS+ of 97. I'm including this season since
> Hutton's mediocre performance seems to have convinced the Phils that
> he was a valuable major leaguer and should be kept around, and worse,
> given hundreds of at-bats, over the next several years.
>
> #3 the Dick Allen--Tom Hutton--Bobby Tolan three headed first baseman
> of 1976. Allen was very good in limited playing time--298 ab, 131 OPS
> +. Hutton contributed a 77 OPS+ in 124 ab while Tolan came through
> with a 76 OPS+ in 110 ab.
>
> #2 Ricky Jordan, 1990. 324 ab, .241 average, .277 on-base
> percentage, and .352 slugging percentage. five homers, 44 rbi and an
> OPS+ of 73.
>
> #1 And what seems to be the worst season of play at first base during
> this period, Pete Rose in 1983. No home runs, 14 doubles in 493 at
> bats. An average of .245, an on-base percentage of .316, and a
> "slugging" percentage of .286. Rose, who had a very good full season
> for the Phils in 1979 and a good 2/3rds of a season in strike-
> shortened 1981, was not an offensive force later in his career with
> the Phils. First base was not a strength for the '83 Phillies.
> Rose's understudy, Tony Perez, put up the same on-base percentage and
> showed a little more power with 6 homers and 11 doubles in 253 ab.
> Len Matuszek a very late season (after post-season rosters were set)
> call-up slugged .525 in 80 at bats and was starting over Rose and
> Perez in the season's critical final weeks.
>
> Overall, about one-half of the time the Phils have gotten a great, or
> at least very good, performance from their first baseman or men. On
> the other hand, there have been some real stinkers in there, too.
>
> Next--second base.
>
> wes
 >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 1 of 12, firstbase 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Baseball Forums (Home) -> Philadelphia Phillies All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]