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Since: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 59
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:05 pm
Post subject: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>phila-phillies (more info?)
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What a black hole this position has been for most of the past 40-some
years! Even thought Dave Cash was, at his best with the Phillies in
the mid-70s, a league average offensive player he seemed like a
superstar following 12 years of Tony Taylor, Cookie Rojas, Terry
Harmon, and Denny Doyle. That same pattern repeated itself once the
70s were over. Good years for the Phils meant that whomever played
second wasn't a millstone around the team's neck. But perhaps times
are a changing since the level of play from Polanco and especially
from Utley has been much, much higher than most of what was seen
earlier.
Ok, the bottom of the barrel.
#5 1999 Marlon Anderson. OPS+ of 63.
#4 the 2000 trifecta of Morandini, Marlon Anderson, and Kevin
Jordan. These three posted virtually no offense--OPS+ of 61, 48, and
44, respectively. While Morandini had some reasonable seasons earlier
with the Phils and Anderson would have some ok seasons later on, this
was not a year where the Phils got much from these players.
Defensively all three fielded slightly above the league average for
second basemen, but perhaps covered less ground.
#3 Denny Doyle in 1970. Tony Taylor also played a lot of second base
that year and had a strong year at both the plate (126 OPS+ in 439 ab)
and in the field (at 2b, 3b, and in the OF). However Doyle managed a
49 OPS+ with 16 rbi's in 413 at-bats.
#2 the 1971 Denny Doyle / Terry Harmon combo. Doyle had an OPS+ of
64 while Harmon contributed an OPS+ of 49. They neither drove in
runs, 39 combined rbi's nor scored runs, 61 combined. Doyle added 17
errors in 91 games at second.
#1 the 1978 threesome of Ted Sizemore, Jim Morrison, and Bud
Harrelson. Pointing out that Harrelson had the best year at the plate
tells the whole story. Harrelson's OPS+ of 58 exceeded that of
Sizemore, 47, and Morrison, 40. Of course, Morrison's performance was
in fact quite good for a dead rock star. These three managed to drive
in 46 runs and score 66 runs on a team that was third overall in the
league in runs scored. Yet this Phillies team still managed to win 90
and the Eastern Division.
wes >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base |
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Since: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:12 am
Post subject: Re: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> "Even thought Dave Cash was, at his best with the Phillies
> in the mid-70s, a league average offensive player..."
I'm really enjoying these "Worst Phillies since '64"
posts & looking forward to more, but I gotta disagree
with the above.
Cash *averaged* 203 hits and 97 runs per season in his
three years with the Phillies (1974-76), with an
average OPS+ of 99. I think most managers -- now or
back then -- would love to have such an "average"
offensive player at 2nd base.
Cash was a key player in the Phillies' transition from
also-rans to contenders in the mid-70s. From an
offensive standpoint, the only Phillie of the last
40-plus years I'd rather see at second is the guy they
have right now.
--CK >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base |
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Since: Jul 15, 2007 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 11, 1:12 pm, chuck <chuckk....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Even thought Dave Cash was, at his best with the Phillies
> > in the mid-70s, a league average offensive player..."
>
> I'm really enjoying these "Worst Phillies since '64"
> posts & looking forward to more, but I gotta disagree
> with the above.
>
> Cash *averaged* 203 hits and 97 runs per season in his
> three years with the Phillies (1974-76), with an
> average OPS+ of 99. I think most managers -- now or
> back then -- would love to have such an "average"
> offensive player at 2nd base.
>
> Cash was a key player in the Phillies' transition from
> also-rans to contenders in the mid-70s. From an
> offensive standpoint, the only Phillie of the last
> 40-plus years I'd rather see at second is the guy they
> have right now.
>
> --CK
Cash did a lot to change things around with his "yes, we can"
attitude.
I also think Trillo should be counted among the top 2Bs in Phils
history. Great arm, excellent D, and a .103 OPS+ in 1980. Series MVP
against the Astros. Phils probably dont have their only title without
him. >> Stay informed about: worst Phillies since '64, part 2 of 12, second base |
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