Can you smell it?

On Jul 6, 2:21?am, "Jon Kercher" <jmkerc... DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher"Nathan Miller"

IIRC, GA is guaranteed $12 mil through next year. And don't think all
the other clubs don't know about his chronic injury probs. To top
that, he's a 10/5 guy, so he can veto a trade to a team he doesn't
wanna go to.

Basically, you can pretty much forget trading GA.
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
"Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:

> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher

We already have 6; what's your problem?

> "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3z1ji.6083$q12.107@trnddc08...
> > Smells like an All Star break offensive funk. The All Star break oughta
> > do them well...a little rest. They'll come back after the break. I'm
> > sure of it! They couldn't stay as hot as they were forever...
> >
> > But did you ever notice that when GA is in the lineup he seems to make
> > everyone else stink as bad as him?!?

--
JD

"...if you think the 'Star Wars' prequels are a disease, then
'Serenity' is the cure."
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

After only 2 innings pitched... Colon gives up 7 hits and 7 earned runs.
THAT'S my problem. Look at his past three starts. THAT'S my problem too!
His shoulder..., His Triceps..., His belt-high 86 m.p.h. fastball...
THAT'S my problem!
"Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd.RemoveThis@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
>
> We already have 6; what's your problem?
>
>> "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:3z1ji.6083$q12.107@trnddc08...
>> > Smells like an All Star break offensive funk. The All Star break
>> > oughta
>> > do them well...a little rest. They'll come back after the break. I'm
>> > sure of it! They couldn't stay as hot as they were forever...
>> >
>> > But did you ever notice that when GA is in the lineup he seems to make
>> > everyone else stink as bad as him?!?
>
> --
> JD
>
> "...if you think the 'Star Wars' prequels are a disease, then
> 'Serenity' is the cure."
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

Sigh. Yep.
"rmjon23" <rmjon23.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1183750078.449420.41190@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 2:21?am, "Jon Kercher" <jmkerc....RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher"Nathan Miller"
>
> IIRC, GA is guaranteed $12 mil through next year. And don't think all
> the other clubs don't know about his chronic injury probs. To top
> that, he's a 10/5 guy, so he can veto a trade to a team he doesn't
> wanna go to.
>
> Basically, you can pretty much forget trading GA.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

"Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SoJji.27766$oh3.8886@newsfe03.phx...
> Sigh. Yep.
> "rmjon23" <rmjon23.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1183750078.449420.41190@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 6, 2:21?am, "Jon Kercher" <jmkerc....DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote:
> >> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher"Nathan Miller"
> >
> > IIRC, GA is guaranteed $12 mil through next year. And don't think all
> > the other clubs don't know about his chronic injury probs. To top
> > that, he's a 10/5 guy, so he can veto a trade to a team he doesn't
> > wanna go to.
> >
> > Basically, you can pretty much forget trading GA.

Unless you get a relatively equally or more overpaid guy in return. Sadly by
this time next year the Angels may bite the bullet and release him unless he
does better.
> >
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

"Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd.RemoveThis@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
>
> We already have 6; what's your problem?

Well I have to disagree...right now we have three possibly 4 with the 4th
(Joe Saunders) really not truly tested in the major leagues...the guy isn't
doing well in the minors...and has only a few games in the Majors. Lackey,
Escobar and Weaver are our only good pitchers, Weaver's been shaky all
season. Colon and Santana have both been eating dirt this season. They
aren't even pitching as good number 5's. We could possibly have a pitching
problem next season with Colon leaving if Santana doesn't turn it around and
if Saunders doesn't have a better season than he is in the minors.

As for GA...no one would give us a thing for him. Not a single thing. He
was unfortunately a waste of a contract extension. I don't think the Angels
did anything wrong in extending his contract because he had done so well
prior to it, but afterward...he fell apart.

>
>> "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:3z1ji.6083$q12.107@trnddc08...
>> > Smells like an All Star break offensive funk. The All Star break
>> > oughta
>> > do them well...a little rest. They'll come back after the break. I'm
>> > sure of it! They couldn't stay as hot as they were forever...
>> >
>> > But did you ever notice that when GA is in the lineup he seems to make
>> > everyone else stink as bad as him?!?
>
> --
> JD
>
> "...if you think the 'Star Wars' prequels are a disease, then
> 'Serenity' is the cure."
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

"Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:KAuki.788$mS3.604@trnddc03...
>
> "Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd.DeleteThis@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
>> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
>> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
>>
>> We already have 6; what's your problem?
>
> Well I have to disagree...right now we have three possibly 4 with the 4th
> (Joe Saunders) really not truly tested in the major leagues...the guy
> isn't doing well in the minors...and has only a few games in the Majors.
> Lackey, Escobar and Weaver are our only good pitchers, Weaver's been shaky
> all season. Colon and Santana have both been eating dirt this season.
> They aren't even pitching as good number 5's. We could possibly have a
> pitching problem next season with Colon leaving if Santana doesn't turn it
> around and if Saunders doesn't have a better season than he is in the
> minors.

He doesn't have an Orlando Cabrera, a Howie Kendrick and a Gary Matthews Jr
playing behind him in SLC. Also, the ball travels better in the higher
altitudes of Utah. I don't think he's having a bad year. He just doesn't
have the defense behind him nor is he pitching in the pitcher friendly
confines of Angel Stadium.

>
> As for GA...no one would give us a thing for him. Not a single thing. He
> was unfortunately a waste of a contract extension. I don't think the
> Angels did anything wrong in extending his contract because he had done so
> well prior to it, but afterward...he fell apart.

It's unfortunate for GA and the Angels that he has had so many health issues
since he signed the contract. But you can be sure that the Angels would
never release him outright. They didn't do that with Salmon or Erstad so I'd
be shocked if they did that with GA. You want guys like GA to retire on good
terms with their club. It's really bad PR not to.
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

"LACountyRefugee" <LACORefugee.DeleteThis@spamsux.net> wrote in message
news:r9yki.26055$C96.4933@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:KAuki.788$mS3.604@trnddc03...
>>
>> "Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd.DeleteThis@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
>>> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
>>> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
>>>
>>> We already have 6; what's your problem?
>>
>> Well I have to disagree...right now we have three possibly 4 with the 4th
>> (Joe Saunders) really not truly tested in the major leagues...the guy
>> isn't doing well in the minors...and has only a few games in the Majors.
>> Lackey, Escobar and Weaver are our only good pitchers, Weaver's been
>> shaky all season. Colon and Santana have both been eating dirt this
>> season. They aren't even pitching as good number 5's. We could possibly
>> have a pitching problem next season with Colon leaving if Santana doesn't
>> turn it around and if Saunders doesn't have a better season than he is in
>> the minors.
>
> He doesn't have an Orlando Cabrera, a Howie Kendrick and a Gary Matthews
> Jr playing behind him in SLC. Also, the ball travels better in the higher
> altitudes of Utah. I don't think he's having a bad year. He just doesn't
> have the defense behind him nor is he pitching in the pitcher friendly
> confines of Angel Stadium.

Agree, but only partially. 81 of those games are on the road...what
percentage he'd pitch of those is anyone's guess so that isn't something I'm
using as a strongpoint. Just stating the obvious. But as far as fielding
goes the Angels are ranked 15th in Fielding in ALL of baseball and 7th in
the AL. So I'd say that the fielding isn't anything more than average for
this team, right now, still far better than last year. But I personally am
not sold on him because Saunders as you know pitches to contact and depends
very highly on his team to make the plays behind a him...a team which isn't
soaring above the rest when it comes to fielding. Something I believe he
needs.

Even with great fielding behind him Saunders still gives up a lot of hits
and has yet to have pitched a full season in the Big Leagues, much less two
which is when everyone knows the story on every pitcher. You also mentioned
that he is playing in SLC with players of a lower caliber and a non-pitchers
park. Well the same goes for coming to the Big Leagues but on the opposite
end regarding offense. The Big League players are also a lot better in that
category than they are at AAA.

I'm not saying Saunders won't do a fine job, but I'm also not saying he's
going to come up and be lights out either. I'm just saying that to me the
scale tips more towards Average to just ok as a starter...last year when he
pitched regularly, if you recall, he was getting killed almost every other
time out...so maybe a long relief position is a better fit for him.

I also disagree that he isn't having a bad year:

Last years stats 10-4 2.67 ERA
This years stats 4-6 4.82 ERA

Same Park, Same Level.

Just my opinion, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Oh yeah...GO VLAD! 2007 Home Run Derby Champ!

Nathan

>
>>
>> As for GA...no one would give us a thing for him. Not a single thing.
>> He was unfortunately a waste of a contract extension. I don't think the
>> Angels did anything wrong in extending his contract because he had done
>> so well prior to it, but afterward...he fell apart.
>
> It's unfortunate for GA and the Angels that he has had so many health
> issues since he signed the contract. But you can be sure that the Angels
> would never release him outright. They didn't do that with Salmon or
> Erstad so I'd be shocked if they did that with GA. You want guys like GA
> to retire on good terms with their club. It's really bad PR not to.
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

"Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:P4Gki.38500$sq4.32136@trnddc05...
>
> "LACountyRefugee" <LACORefugee DeleteThis @spamsux.net> wrote in message
> news:r9yki.26055$C96.4933@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:KAuki.788$mS3.604@trnddc03...
>>>
>>> "Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd DeleteThis @NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
>>>> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
>>>> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
>>>>
>>>> We already have 6; what's your problem?
>>>
>>> Well I have to disagree...right now we have three possibly 4 with the
>>> 4th (Joe Saunders) really not truly tested in the major leagues...the
>>> guy isn't doing well in the minors...and has only a few games in the
>>> Majors. Lackey, Escobar and Weaver are our only good pitchers, Weaver's
>>> been shaky all season. Colon and Santana have both been eating dirt
>>> this season. They aren't even pitching as good number 5's. We could
>>> possibly have a pitching problem next season with Colon leaving if
>>> Santana doesn't turn it around and if Saunders doesn't have a better
>>> season than he is in the minors.
>>
>> He doesn't have an Orlando Cabrera, a Howie Kendrick and a Gary Matthews
>> Jr playing behind him in SLC. Also, the ball travels better in the higher
>> altitudes of Utah. I don't think he's having a bad year. He just doesn't
>> have the defense behind him nor is he pitching in the pitcher friendly
>> confines of Angel Stadium.
>
> Agree, but only partially. 81 of those games are on the road...what
> percentage he'd pitch of those is anyone's guess so that isn't something
> I'm using as a strongpoint. Just stating the obvious. But as far as
> fielding goes the Angels are ranked 15th in Fielding in ALL of baseball
> and 7th in the AL. So I'd say that the fielding isn't anything more than
> average for this team, right now, still far better than last year. But I
> personally am not sold on him because Saunders as you know pitches to
> contact and depends very highly on his team to make the plays behind a
> him...a team which isn't soaring above the rest when it comes to fielding.
> Something I believe he needs.
>
> Even with great fielding behind him Saunders still gives up a lot of hits
> and has yet to have pitched a full season in the Big Leagues, much less
> two which is when everyone knows the story on every pitcher. You also
> mentioned that he is playing in SLC with players of a lower caliber and a
> non-pitchers park. Well the same goes for coming to the Big Leagues but
> on the opposite end regarding offense. The Big League players are also a
> lot better in that category than they are at AAA.
>
> I'm not saying Saunders won't do a fine job, but I'm also not saying he's
> going to come up and be lights out either. I'm just saying that to me the
> scale tips more towards Average to just ok as a starter...last year when
> he pitched regularly, if you recall, he was getting killed almost every
> other time out...so maybe a long relief position is a better fit for him.
>
> I also disagree that he isn't having a bad year:
>
> Last years stats 10-4 2.67 ERA
> This years stats 4-6 4.82 ERA
>
> Same Park, Same Level.
>
> Just my opinion, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

But he had Erick Aybar behind him at SS, Howie Kendrick (for a large portion
of the season) behind him at 2B and Reggie Willits in CF. He does not have
that kind of backing right now. Plus, Brandon Wood was moved to 3B and he's
commiting a lot errors there. Even with the problems in SLC, they are in 1st
place in the PCL North. In his last start, Saunders gave up 2 HRs which
accounted for 3 of the 4 runs, but he threw 69% strikes, had 7 Ks and no
walks and lost 4-2. I'd rather have him than Santana (and Colon for that
matter) in the rotation.

>
> Oh yeah...GO VLAD! 2007 Home Run Derby Champ!
>
> Nathan
>
>>
>>>
>>> As for GA...no one would give us a thing for him. Not a single thing.
>>> He was unfortunately a waste of a contract extension. I don't think the
>>> Angels did anything wrong in extending his contract because he had done
>>> so well prior to it, but afterward...he fell apart.
>>
>> It's unfortunate for GA and the Angels that he has had so many health
>> issues since he signed the contract. But you can be sure that the Angels
>> would never release him outright. They didn't do that with Salmon or
>> Erstad so I'd be shocked if they did that with GA. You want guys like GA
>> to retire on good terms with their club. It's really bad PR not to.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it? 

In article <P4Gki.38500$sq4.32136@trnddc05>,
"Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:

> "LACountyRefugee" <LACORefugee.RemoveThis@spamsux.net> wrote in message
> news:r9yki.26055$C96.4933@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> >
> > "Nathan Miller" <nate.miller1.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:KAuki.788$mS3.604@trnddc03...
> >>
> >> "Jeanne Douglas" <hlwdjsd.RemoveThis@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote in message
> >> news:hlwdjsd-04D9DA.08511406072007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> >>> In article <TQnji.22248$oh3.12115@newsfe03.phx>,
> >>> "Jon Kercher" <jmkercher.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> GA would be good bait for another REAL starting pitcher
> >>>
> >>> We already have 6; what's your problem?
> >>
> >> Well I have to disagree...right now we have three possibly 4 with the 4th
> >> (Joe Saunders) really not truly tested in the major leagues...the guy
> >> isn't doing well in the minors...and has only a few games in the Majors.
> >> Lackey, Escobar and Weaver are our only good pitchers, Weaver's been
> >> shaky all season. Colon and Santana have both been eating dirt this
> >> season. They aren't even pitching as good number 5's. We could possibly
> >> have a pitching problem next season with Colon leaving if Santana doesn't
> >> turn it around and if Saunders doesn't have a better season than he is in
> >> the minors.
> >
> > He doesn't have an Orlando Cabrera, a Howie Kendrick and a Gary Matthews
> > Jr playing behind him in SLC. Also, the ball travels better in the higher
> > altitudes of Utah. I don't think he's having a bad year. He just doesn't
> > have the defense behind him nor is he pitching in the pitcher friendly
> > confines of Angel Stadium.
>
> Agree, but only partially. 81 of those games are on the road...\

And the PCL is a NOTORIOUS hitters' league, including lots of high
altitude teams. You can't judge any pitcher (or hitter) solely on his
numbers; you have to adjust them for a heckuva lot of park effect.

Look at the other teams in MLB and ask yourself how many of them would
KILL for the Angels rotation. There are teams desperate for warm bodies,
much less decent pitchers.

--
JD

"...if you think the 'Star Wars' prequels are a disease, then
'Serenity' is the cure."
 >> Stay informed about: Can you smell it?