small ball

"RJA" <rja.DeleteThis@nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:48373a0d$0$7040$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla.DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in message
> news:O6idnSZKncDluarVnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "Ron Johnson" <johnson.DeleteThis@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message
>> news:555366bb-d269-46ae-a656-3a0291f68c6b@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> On May 22, 3:21 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin....DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> "David Short" <David.no.Sh....DeleteThis@Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:g14gch$1ko$2@posting.glorb.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Bob Braun wrote:
>>>> >> Ron or Dan
>>>>
>>>> >> I can't find this stat.
>>>>
>>>> >> K/plate appearance ratio by team.
>>>>
>>>> >> Yes, the 1976 Reds may have had a lot of K's, but they batted a
>>>> >> helluva
>>>> >> lot.
>>>>
>>>> >> It would be interesting to compare the K/PA rate of the '76 Reds vs.
>>>> >> say
>>>> >> the 2006 Reds.
>>>>
>>>> >> Or tell me where to look, and I'll find it.
>>>>
>>>> > Looks like team plate appearances is the tough one.
>>>>
>>>> > Under the league sections at baseball reference you can get a teams
>>>> > season
>>>> > K's, AB and BB. Something like K/(AB+BB) would give you a decent
>>>> > approximation.
>>>>
>>>> > It will certainly show the modern reds are striking out far more than
>>>> > the
>>>> > 76 team, but that's a league wide thing that's been going on since at
>>>> > least 1993. K's have been steadily rising in that time.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I've voiced my theory on that. That's today's money-driven,
>>>> selfish
>>>> athlete.
>>>
>>> More like selection of players. One class of player that has been
>>> largely driven from the game by today's high offensive context
>>> is what Doug Drinen used to call the slapping swifty.
>>>
>>> Further, pitchers aren't pacing themselves the way they used
>>> to. The change in pitching style is at least as important as
>>> offensive player selection in driving this trend.
>>>
>>>> You don't see guys in a two-strike hole, turn slightly toward the
>>>> pitcher and shorten their swing a bit.
>>>
>>> I've been looking at count data going back to the 80s. I've seen
>>> little to no change in how things play out with two strikes
>>> since then.
>>
>> But you can't watch the hitter to see if he adjusted his stance or
>> approach with two strikes. I'm buying stats as a reliable tool. It lets
>> me see if I can believe my lying eyes. But I can't go stats as the
>> wholesale panacea. I've really narrowed my view on bunting, when looking
>> at the price of giving up the out.
>>
>>> There's only one reliable way to avoid Ks. Resolve the plate
>>> appearance before reaching two strikes. And that
>>> carries with it other issues.
>>
>> Absolutely! My hitting window at 0-1, 1-1, and most 2-1's was the
>> entire strike zone. The best way to avoid having to make two-strike
>> adjustments is, don't get two strikes on you.
>>
>> But I watch MLB players that could cut down on their K's with
>> adjustments. I don't want to see an Adam Dunn changing his approach with
>> two strikes.
>
> Yes you do. We discussed last year Dunn's horrid numbers with 2 strikes
> on him. His more recent 2-strike adjustments are what gave him that great
> 2nd half last year. His K/AB is also significantly down from past years.

No I don't. I don't want to see Adam Dunn shortening his swing, or opening
up to the pitcher more with two strikes. Changing his hitting window to
strike zone plus and/or hitting the ball where it's pitched, sure.

But again, primarily I would like to see him not reach the two-strike count
as often. To over-simplify it, swing at more strikes earlier in the count.
I don't want him swinging at bad pitches out of the zone to avoid two strike
counts.

As a hitter, you want to be able to handle every pitch in the strike zone.
Sure you are going to handle some areas better than others. I think Adam
Dunn started handling the pitch on the outer part of the plate better in
second half of last season.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball 

"Bob Braun" <oxinfla.DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in message
news:SbydndC-uJU736XVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@comcast.com...
> "RJA" <rja.DeleteThis@nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:48373a0d$0$7040$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla.DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in message
>> news:O6idnSZKncDluarVnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "Ron Johnson" <johnson.DeleteThis@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:555366bb-d269-46ae-a656-3a0291f68c6b@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On May 22, 3:21 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin....DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> "David Short" <David.no.Sh....DeleteThis@Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:g14gch$1ko$2@posting.glorb.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Bob Braun wrote:
>>>>> >> Ron or Dan
>>>>>
>>>>> >> I can't find this stat.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> K/plate appearance ratio by team.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Yes, the 1976 Reds may have had a lot of K's, but they batted a
>>>>> >> helluva
>>>>> >> lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> It would be interesting to compare the K/PA rate of the '76 Reds
>>>>> >> vs. say
>>>>> >> the 2006 Reds.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Or tell me where to look, and I'll find it.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Looks like team plate appearances is the tough one.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Under the league sections at baseball reference you can get a teams
>>>>> > season
>>>>> > K's, AB and BB. Something like K/(AB+BB) would give you a decent
>>>>> > approximation.
>>>>>
>>>>> > It will certainly show the modern reds are striking out far more
>>>>> > than the
>>>>> > 76 team, but that's a league wide thing that's been going on since
>>>>> > at
>>>>> > least 1993. K's have been steadily rising in that time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I've voiced my theory on that. That's today's money-driven,
>>>>> selfish
>>>>> athlete.
>>>>
>>>> More like selection of players. One class of player that has been
>>>> largely driven from the game by today's high offensive context
>>>> is what Doug Drinen used to call the slapping swifty.
>>>>
>>>> Further, pitchers aren't pacing themselves the way they used
>>>> to. The change in pitching style is at least as important as
>>>> offensive player selection in driving this trend.
>>>>
>>>>> You don't see guys in a two-strike hole, turn slightly toward the
>>>>> pitcher and shorten their swing a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I've been looking at count data going back to the 80s. I've seen
>>>> little to no change in how things play out with two strikes
>>>> since then.
>>>
>>> But you can't watch the hitter to see if he adjusted his stance or
>>> approach with two strikes. I'm buying stats as a reliable tool. It
>>> lets me see if I can believe my lying eyes. But I can't go stats as the
>>> wholesale panacea. I've really narrowed my view on bunting, when looking
>>> at the price of giving up the out.
>>>
>>>> There's only one reliable way to avoid Ks. Resolve the plate
>>>> appearance before reaching two strikes. And that
>>>> carries with it other issues.
>>>
>>> Absolutely! My hitting window at 0-1, 1-1, and most 2-1's was the
>>> entire strike zone. The best way to avoid having to make two-strike
>>> adjustments is, don't get two strikes on you.
>>>
>>> But I watch MLB players that could cut down on their K's with
>>> adjustments. I don't want to see an Adam Dunn changing his approach with
>>> two strikes.
>>
>> Yes you do. We discussed last year Dunn's horrid numbers with 2 strikes
>> on him. His more recent 2-strike adjustments are what gave him that
>> great 2nd half last year. His K/AB is also significantly down from past
>> years.
>
> No I don't. I don't want to see Adam Dunn shortening his swing, or
> opening up to the pitcher more with two strikes. Changing his hitting
> window to strike zone plus and/or hitting the ball where it's pitched,
> sure.
>
> But again, primarily I would like to see him not reach the two-strike
> count as often. To over-simplify it, swing at more strikes earlier in the
> count. I don't want him swinging at bad pitches out of the zone to avoid
> two strike counts.

Yes, ideally he would not get to two strikes, but when he does, I'll take
the shortening up instead of the numbers Kevin posted any day of the week.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball 

--

"RJA" <rja DeleteThis @nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4838d51e$0$4096$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in message
> news:SbydndC-uJU736XVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> "RJA" <rja DeleteThis @nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:48373a0d$0$7040$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:O6idnSZKncDluarVnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> "Ron Johnson" <johnson DeleteThis @ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:555366bb-d269-46ae-a656-3a0291f68c6b@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On May 22, 3:21 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin... DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "David Short" <David.no.Sh... DeleteThis @Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:g14gch$1ko$2@posting.glorb.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Bob Braun wrote:
>>>>>> >> Ron or Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> I can't find this stat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> K/plate appearance ratio by team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Yes, the 1976 Reds may have had a lot of K's, but they batted a
>>>>>> >> helluva
>>>>>> >> lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> It would be interesting to compare the K/PA rate of the '76 Reds
>>>>>> >> vs. say
>>>>>> >> the 2006 Reds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Or tell me where to look, and I'll find it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Looks like team plate appearances is the tough one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Under the league sections at baseball reference you can get a teams
>>>>>> > season
>>>>>> > K's, AB and BB. Something like K/(AB+BB) would give you a decent
>>>>>> > approximation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > It will certainly show the modern reds are striking out far more
>>>>>> > than the
>>>>>> > 76 team, but that's a league wide thing that's been going on since
>>>>>> > at
>>>>>> > least 1993. K's have been steadily rising in that time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I've voiced my theory on that. That's today's money-driven,
>>>>>> selfish
>>>>>> athlete.
>>>>>
>>>>> More like selection of players. One class of player that has been
>>>>> largely driven from the game by today's high offensive context
>>>>> is what Doug Drinen used to call the slapping swifty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, pitchers aren't pacing themselves the way they used
>>>>> to. The change in pitching style is at least as important as
>>>>> offensive player selection in driving this trend.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't see guys in a two-strike hole, turn slightly toward the
>>>>>> pitcher and shorten their swing a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been looking at count data going back to the 80s. I've seen
>>>>> little to no change in how things play out with two strikes
>>>>> since then.
>>>>
>>>> But you can't watch the hitter to see if he adjusted his stance or
>>>> approach with two strikes. I'm buying stats as a reliable tool. It
>>>> lets me see if I can believe my lying eyes. But I can't go stats as
>>>> the wholesale panacea. I've really narrowed my view on bunting, when
>>>> looking at the price of giving up the out.
>>>>
>>>>> There's only one reliable way to avoid Ks. Resolve the plate
>>>>> appearance before reaching two strikes. And that
>>>>> carries with it other issues.
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely! My hitting window at 0-1, 1-1, and most 2-1's was the
>>>> entire strike zone. The best way to avoid having to make two-strike
>>>> adjustments is, don't get two strikes on you.
>>>>
>>>> But I watch MLB players that could cut down on their K's with
>>>> adjustments. I don't want to see an Adam Dunn changing his approach
>>>> with two strikes.
>>>
>>> Yes you do. We discussed last year Dunn's horrid numbers with 2 strikes
>>> on him. His more recent 2-strike adjustments are what gave him that
>>> great 2nd half last year. His K/AB is also significantly down from past
>>> years.
>>
>> No I don't. I don't want to see Adam Dunn shortening his swing, or
>> opening up to the pitcher more with two strikes. Changing his hitting
>> window to strike zone plus and/or hitting the ball where it's pitched,
>> sure.
>>
>> But again, primarily I would like to see him not reach the two-strike
>> count as often. To over-simplify it, swing at more strikes earlier in
>> the count. I don't want him swinging at bad pitches out of the zone to
>> avoid two strike counts.
>
> Yes, ideally he would not get to two strikes, but when he does, I'll take
> the shortening up instead of the numbers Kevin posted any day of the week.

Nah, not my power guy. In the words of one of our wise managers, "He can
score a point with one swing."

At least the Rays are fun to follow for now.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball 

On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:54:40 -0400, "Bob Braun"
<oxinfla DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:

>"JustTom" <tom DeleteThis @nomail.please> wrote in message
>news:4835d3b0.540129150@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 12:58:59 -0700 (PDT), Ron Johnson
>> <johnson DeleteThis @ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>They thought Williams was a grouch. WIthin a year Billy Martin
>>>was their manager.
>>
>> Yeah, he was much more easy going...
>
>Sober?
>

He seemed to be the definiton of "mean drunk", so I'd think you'd be
hard pressed to tell the difference.

Free Agent doesn't have sarcasm mode, which my last post was dripping
with.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball 

On Sat, 24 May 2008 12:31:40 -0400, "Bob Braun"
<oxinfla DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:

>
>Bitch about Patterson being on the team.
>

With $3M.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball 

"JustTom" <tom.TakeThisOut@nomail.please> wrote in message
news:48498a48.3534508@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> On Sat, 24 May 2008 12:31:40 -0400, "Bob Braun"
>
>>
>>Bitch about Patterson being on the team.
>>
>
> With $3M.

Leading off or hitting second.
 >> Stay informed about: small ball