Expos to be renamed Senators

"John Smith" <nospam.DeleteThis@nul.dev> wrote in message news:<BIPNc.44236$eH1.20599423@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...
> "bo" <billo5.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:s3rdg01kb5fkh3u05966eo42ltogccbmon@4ax.com...
>
> > Good one Dutch............the name and it's location leaves itself
> > open to a lot of fun. If they do move there they are going to a nice
> > area but they will have to compete with the Phillies and Orioles.
>
> Compete with the Phillies? DC is nearly a three hour drive from Philly.
> Baltimore is on the extreme end of driving for most fans, and most of the
> impact would be on weekend attendence.

MLB sees it that way, it seems, competing along the way from Boston to
Philly.

> > Personally I think Tennessee or New Orleans would be better.
>
> Really? And how is a team supposed to survive in a market smaller than any
> in baseball right now.

New Orleans would have no local competition (who goes to Tampa/Florida
games anyway?). Best place to put the team, after Montreal, is easily
Brooklyn no matter how you look at it. Then maybe Las Vegas. I'd put
Washington at about 7th. I'd think the team would be better supported
in NO
but I'm not sold on Tennessee.

No guarantees the Expos won't be in Montreal in 2005. All MLB said
was "no split schedule next year", so no Puerto Rico. Talk is cheap,
they can say definitively that the Expos are moving to the moon and it
means as much as them saying they're moving to Washington, I'll
believe the Expos are leaving Montreal when someone actually:
A) buys them
B) sets up shop in another town with players in tow.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

Sell the team to Robert Johnson and bring them to Charlotte! Then they'd only
be 90 miles away for me.
Seriously, there's a million people in Charlotte, nearly another million here in
the upstate of South Carolina, and plenty of folks in Columbia, SC and central
NC. Probably 3 million within 150 miles of Charlotte.

--
"I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet"
Galley
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

>Sell the team to Robert Johnson and bring them to Charlotte! Then they'd
>only
>be 90 miles away for me.
>Seriously, there's a million people in Charlotte, nearly another million here
>in
>the upstate of South Carolina, and plenty of folks in Columbia, SC and
>central
>NC. Probably 3 million within 150 miles of Charlotte.

Considering that Charlotte has already voted down two different stadium
proposals, I think the chances of Charlotte getting a team under those
curcumstances is virtually non-existent.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

"Galley" <Galley.RemoveThis@Spam-Jammer.galleytech.com> wrote in message
news:3m3mg05m143kahiaqnl7jpq67sbr69nac1@4ax.com...
> Sell the team to Robert Johnson and bring them to Charlotte! Then they'd
only
> be 90 miles away for me.
> Seriously, there's a million people in Charlotte, nearly another million
here in
> the upstate of South Carolina, and plenty of folks in Columbia, SC and
central
> NC. Probably 3 million within 150 miles of Charlotte.

No doubt. And how many Million people within 150 miles of Washington, DC.
(Hint its a lot more than 8 million or more than double the population that
you have suggested as a market..) DC is a massive market and picks up on
weekends a great deal of additional population that is just too far from
Baltimore. (For example, Richmond, VA which is about two hours away from a
DC Stadium, but about 3.5 from Baltimore. 2 hours each way is readily
doable on a weekend for a game.. 3.5 hours really is not.

Again, lots of other cities, including Montreal, are great markets for an
MLB team, but they just are not as good as DC.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

>Again, lots of other cities, including Montreal, are great markets for an
>MLB team, but they just are not as good as DC.
>

Montréal has been in the first half of their league in attendance 7 times out
of 35 seasons, for a percentage of 20%. This ranks them 26th out of the 28
cities which have been in the majors since 1901.

Washington has been in the first half of their league in attendance 9 times out
of 71 seasons, for a percentage of 12.7%. This ranks them 28th out of the 28
cities which have been in the majors since 1901.

John, I simply cannot comprehend how a city which is dead last in attendance
with a data sample lasting over seven decades can be in any way, shape or form
be considered a great market for baseball. How can last in attendance be
considered a positive?

If Montréal is harshly criticized for having horiffic attendance, how can one
of the two cities which are worse be considered an improvement?

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
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"Lord Calvert" <forlornh.DeleteThis@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040801013025.07359.00000878@mb-m15.aol.com

>
> John, I simply cannot comprehend how a city which is dead last in
attendance
> with a data sample lasting over seven decades can be in any way, shape or
form
> be considered a great market for baseball. How can last in attendance be
> considered a positive?

Because those statistics are all MORE THAN 30 YEARS old. The DC region has
undergone a radical transformation during the past thirty years. The
Demographics of the region, including key items such as disposible income
and corporations able to support skyboxes and the like, are completely
different. What the Senators did in the 40's, 50's and 60's is as
meaningless as deciding who to trade for based on 10 year old statistics.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

>John, I simply cannot comprehend how a city which is dead last in attendance
>with a data sample lasting over seven decades can be in any way, shape or form
>be considered a great market for baseball. How can last in attendance be
>considered a positive?
>
>If Montréal is harshly criticized for having horiffic attendance, how can one
>of the two cities which are worse be considered an improvement?

I guess people are hoping for a renaissance like the Alouettes
experienced when they returned to Montreal. They left town because of
poor attendence and have sold out countless consecutive games since
returning, drawing 20k for every game. If the Expos attracted 20k per
game, they'd remain in Montreal.

Roberta
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"Robertazimmerman" <bobdylan.DeleteThis@iname.com> wrote in message
news:cf7vg014d17sdlu26vb0q04t6odphhf2s0@4ax.com...
> >John, I simply cannot comprehend how a city which is dead last in
attendance
> >with a data sample lasting over seven decades can be in any way,
shape or form
> >be considered a great market for baseball. How can last in
attendance be
> >considered a positive?
> >
> >If Montréal is harshly criticized for having horiffic attendance,
how can one
> >of the two cities which are worse be considered an improvement?
>
> I guess people are hoping for a renaissance like the Alouettes
> experienced when they returned to Montreal. They left town because
of
> poor attendence and have sold out countless consecutive games since
> returning, drawing 20k for every game. If the Expos attracted 20k
per
> game, they'd remain in Montreal.

As I recall the Alouettes did worse than leave town because of poor
attendance -- they went bankrupt and were renamed the Concorde and
then a few years later were folded entirely. The team that exists
today is only success story of the CFL's US expansion, the old
Baltimore Stallions, moved and renamed. That said they have become a
real success, in part because they are in a smaller outdoor stadium
rather than the Big Owe. Olympic Stadium was a mistake on so many
levels that it is depressing.

--
Brent McKee

To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from
the email address

"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
in one which is infinitely worse."
- Margaret Atwood

"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more
constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of
openness to novelty. "
- Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

> John, I simply cannot comprehend how a city which is dead last in
> attendance
> > with a data sample lasting over seven decades can be in any way, shape or
> form
> > be considered a great market for baseball. How can last in attendance be
> > considered a positive?
>
> Because those statistics are all MORE THAN 30 YEARS old. The DC region has
> undergone a radical transformation during the past thirty years. The
> Demographics of the region, including key items such as disposible income
> and corporations able to support skyboxes and the like, are completely
> different.

I've heard this before. It was called 'gentrification', a doublespeak
word meaning "whites move in, blacks move out." And corporations
'able' to support skyboxes and 'willing' are two different things.
Montréal has that problem, so do other cities. A lot of Washington
money is transient, too, and the Redskins do like to corner that
market where money isn't so transient.

> What the Senators did in the 40's, 50's and 60's is as
> meaningless as deciding who to trade for based on 10 year old statistics.

As meaningless as the poor attendance for the Wizards and Capitals??
Not really meaningless, Washington is a public employee town and has a
high turnover rate, both very bad things for a baseball franchise
(which needs fans who want to be active at the game, not taking a
night off). What Washington fans did in the past is a good indicator
as to what they'll do in the future.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

>>If Montréal is harshly criticized for having horiffic attendance, how can
>one
>>of the two cities which are worse be considered an improvement?
>
>I guess people are hoping for a renaissance like the Alouettes
>experienced when they returned to Montreal. They left town because of
>poor attendence and have sold out countless consecutive games since
>returning, drawing 20k for every game. If the Expos attracted 20k per
>game, they'd remain in Montreal.

And which US metropolitan area did the current Alouettes come from?
Whadayaknow...it's the Baltimore-Washintgon metro area. The one which is
allegedly such a good sports area even though the only team they've ever
supported consistently has been the Redskins.
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

"Lord Calvert" <forlornh.DeleteThis@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040804225501.15036.00000992@mb-m02.aol.com...

>
> And which US metropolitan area did the current Alouettes come from?
> Whadayaknow...it's the Baltimore-Washintgon metro area. The one which is
> allegedly such a good sports area even though the only team they've ever
> supported consistently has been the Redskins.

Another "brilliant" argument from the Little Lord.... The Alouettes came
from Baltimore after a MAJOR league franchise (The Ravens) arrived in
Baltimore. As Baltimore now had a MAJOR league football team, it no longer
needed a MINOR league Football team.

The Colts were well supported and the Ravens are well supported.

But hey, I'm "little lord Calvert" (in a pigs eye) and I can ignore facts...
 >> Stay informed about: Expos to be renamed Senators 

>>
>> I guess people are hoping for a renaissance like the Alouettes
>> experienced when they returned to Montreal. They left town because
>of
>> poor attendence and have sold out countless consecutive games since
>> returning, drawing 20k for every game. If the Expos attracted 20k
>per
>> game, they'd remain in Montreal.
>
>As I recall the Alouettes did worse than leave town because of poor
>attendance -- they went bankrupt and were renamed the Concorde and
>then a few years later were folded entirely. The team that exists
>today is only success story of the CFL's US expansion, the old
>Baltimore Stallions, moved and renamed. That said they have become a
>real success, in part because they are in a smaller outdoor stadium
>rather than the Big Owe. Olympic Stadium was a mistake on so many
>levels that it is depressing.

I wasn't trying to give all of the sordid details; simply the fact
that they left and enjoyed a renaissance on their return. The fact
that they were the Baltimore Stallions is irrelevent. I don't think
too many Folks from MD attend Alouettes' games.

Are you saying that the Big Owe is the problem and that if they played
elsewhere, the fans would return? If so, how do you explain the
none-too-shabby attendences in 1994 and 1995?

Roberta
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On 05 Aug 2004 02:55:01 GMT, forlornh.DeleteThis@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
wrote:

>And which US metropolitan area did the current Alouettes come from?
>Whadayaknow...it's the Baltimore-Washintgon metro area. The one which is
>allegedly such a good sports area even though the only team they've ever
>supported consistently has been the Redskins.

I find it interesting that most of the posts in this newsgroup relate
to bad-mouthing prospective homes for the team instead of emphasizing
the reasons why the team should stay in Montreal (if there are any).
Isn't this a somewhat defeatist attitude?

Frankly, I couldn't care less where they end up. If they're not the
"Montreal Expos", they can play on Mars for all I care.

Just my 2 cents (Cdn).

Roberta
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