How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi..

grossman wrote:
> jwragusa.TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:
> > The other night on Fox they had a graphic comparing Pujols first few
> > seasons with the first few seasons of other famous sluggers. At the
> > bottom it said "Babe Ruth was a pitcher his first six seasons."
> >
> > It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
> > hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
> > pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
> > reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
> > about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?
>
> 837

Thank you Karnak. I guess that answer was sealed in a mayonnaise jar
on Funk and Wagnals porch since 2:30 this afternoon.
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

Bob Roman wrote:
> <jwragusa DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote...
> > It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
> > hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
> > pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
> > reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
> > about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?
>
> 46 extra HR for a total of 760.
>
> That's assuming:
>
> 1) he would average 613 PA/season (his average as a Yankee), and
> 2) his HR/PA for each of those 6 years would remain the same as they were in
> real world.
>
> --
> Bob Roman

Seems reasonable. Although it is likely that his hitting skills would
have improved faster than they did were he to have hit every day for
all those years instead of every 4 days. So I would guess a little
higher. Still pretty amazing how good a pitcher he was, considering
how famous he is as the Sultan of Swat.
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

jwragusa.TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:
> The other night on Fox they had a graphic comparing Pujols first few
> seasons with the first few seasons of other famous sluggers. At the
> bottom it said "Babe Ruth was a pitcher his first six seasons."
>
> It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
> hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
> pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
> reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
> about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?

Actually, if Ruth hadn't started out as a pitcher, he may well have hit
many _less_ home runs in his career than he ended up with. That sounds
backwards, but the reason this was a distinct possibility is because of
the real life circumstances that Ruth was operating in. For one thing,
one of the reasons he towered over the league in batting performance is
that he figured out a _style_ that, while of course effective, went
against the conventional wisdom at the time: players weren't _trying_
to hit home runs, and with good reason given the conditions of the
deadball era. Therefore, had Ruth not been a pitcher, he may not have
been free to experiment with this new style -- but since nobody cares
how a pitcher hits, he was.

It's possible he never makes the majors if he's hitting with this style
beforehand -- even if successful. Hell, it took long enough for people
to be convinced that his approach worked even _after_ he was succeeding
with it.

--Ray
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

Raymond DiPerna wrote:

>
> It's possible he never makes the majors if he's hitting with this style
> beforehand -- even if successful. Hell, it took long enough for people
> to be convinced that his approach worked even _after_ he was succeeding
> with it.
>
> --Ray

Ray,

Strange theory.

By the way, it didn't really take that long for some others to approach
Ruth's early Yankee numbers. Rogers Hornsby had over 40 HR's only a
couple of years later in 1922, with a .401 average yet! And younger
players watched Ruth and copied him (and presumably Hornsby) and then
gradually came into the league. The old geezers such as McGraw and
older players such as Cobb didn't like the new style, I'm sure, but
within a few years it wasn't that uncommon to have someone hit over 40
HR's. Obviously not close to how many hit 40 HR's today.

Didn't Ruth use a 42 oz. bat or even higher sometimes? Paul O'Neill
was considered a little strange for using a 36 oz. bat.
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

<jwragusa.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote...
> It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
> hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
> pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
> reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
> about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?

46 extra HR for a total of 760.

That's assuming:

1) he would average 613 PA/season (his average as a Yankee), and
2) his HR/PA for each of those 6 years would remain the same as they were in
real world.

--
Bob Roman
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

Bob Roman wrote:
> That's assuming:
> 1) he would average 613 PA/season (his average as a Yankee), and

I didn't know that Ruth only batted on the days that he pitched. His
batting average was very good (around .300) even the first 5 years, so
why didn't he bat every day?
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

sfb wrote:
> The Red Sox won the WS 3 times in the 6 years Ruth was there so somebody
> was doing OK at the plate.

Not really. Compare Babe Ruth's BA and SLG with the starting OF:
1915: Ruth was .315/.576, Hooper was .235/.327
1917: Ruth was .325/.472, Walker was .246/.359

> Ruth played 188 games in the outfield and at
> first in his last two years in Boston.

Yeah, but he only started (pitcher) in 19 and 15 games in those last
two years, so he was not a full time pitcher.
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

On 18 Oct 2006 09:13:29 -0700, grossman wrote:

> jwragusa.TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:
>> The other night on Fox they had a graphic comparing Pujols first few
>> seasons with the first few seasons of other famous sluggers. At the
>> bottom it said "Babe Ruth was a pitcher his first six seasons."
>>
>> It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
>> hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
>> pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
>> reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
>> about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?
>
> 837

Wow, that's a lot of extra home runs. That would put him at 1551 --
probably out of reach even for A-Rod.
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

The Red Sox won the WS 3 times in the 6 years Ruth was there so somebody
was doing OK at the plate. Ruth played 188 games in the outfield and at
first in his last two years in Boston. You can look it up.

"Bucky" <uw_badgers DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:1161203974.227818.195550@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Bob Roman wrote:
>> That's assuming:
>> 1) he would average 613 PA/season (his average as a Yankee), and
>
> I didn't know that Ruth only batted on the days that he pitched. His
> batting average was very good (around .300) even the first 5 years, so
> why didn't he bat every day?
>
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

In <12jco427hde8uc4 RemoveThis @news.supernews.com> "Bob Roman" <robertjroman RemoveThis @hotmail.com> writes:

><jwragusa RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote...
>> It was the dead ball era at the beginning of Ruth's career. Also, his
>> hitting did not seem to be nearly as good the first few years he was a
>> pitcher (although it improved over time obviously). What's a
>> reasonable guess for how many extra HR's? Has anyone ever written
>> about this? Seems like 50 or 60 extra?

>46 extra HR for a total of 760.

>That's assuming:

>1) he would average 613 PA/season (his average as a Yankee), and
>2) his HR/PA for each of those 6 years would remain the same as they were in
>real world.

I came up with something a little less, like 40, on the assumption that
he would have had fewer PAs than that, needing first to break into a lineup
with three prime age outfielders (though granted only one of them was particularly
good) as a 20 or 21-year-old. What's hard to say is whether having to pitch
reduced his HR output per plate appearance during those years. One would
think so, but maybe not playing every day had some health benefits.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

Don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that up until 1930,
if a ball left the field fair but landed foul, it was a foul ball. Like
those balls at Fenway that curve around Pesky's Pole. Ruth appears to
have been a pull hitter, so I wonder how many more HRs he would have if
the rule was as it is today?
 >> Stay informed about: How many home runs for Ruth if he was not a pitcher for fi.. 

jwragusa.RemoveThis@aol.com trolled:

> Seems reasonable. Although it is likely that his hitting skills would
> have improved faster than they did were he to have hit every day for
> all those years instead of every 4 days. So I would guess a little
> higher. Still pretty amazing how good a pitcher he was, considering
> how famous he is as the Sultan of Swat.

But you have to understand that in those days the elite athletes
were amateurs, and didn't play baseball in any case. Furthermore,
he wasn't swinging against, black, Japanese, etc., pitchers.

Certainly Ruth was the best in the Major Leagues at that time and
trying to compare him with today's athletes is silly.

cordially, as always,

rm
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Bucky <uw_badgers.RemoveThis@email.com> trolled:
> sfb wrote:

We don't followup sfb in this group because he refuses to respect
the group guidelines, even though he has been asked nicely.

If you continue to converse with sfb in this ng then it is likely
that the regulars will ignore you, just as they ignore sfb.

Killfiled for 28 days.

cordially, as always,

rm
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