Did I hear this right ???

DonfromBarre venit, vidit, et dixit:

> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?

If Ichiro Suzuki can get $20 million per year, then ARod,
who may still be able to play shortstop, who's playing a
good third base this year (from what I've heard), who
may be approaching 700 home runs in 5 years' time...
yeah, I can see his getting it.

I find it difficult to wrap my head around -- the mind boggles
at these numbers -- but it strikes me that the "we keep our
books closed" owners are likely making money hand-over-fist
if they're offering Gil Meche $10 million per year and Ichiro
Suzuki $20 million per year. And if the market is right on
those players, then yeah, I can imagine ARod's being worth
$30 million per year. Or at least asking for that. I have
no idea if he'll get it or not, but if any player is worth
that much money, Alex Rodriguez might be.

Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer

--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
IF22: Cliff wins best film, cast | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"Can't complain; had his chance, and in modern parlance, blew it."
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

> I find it difficult to wrap my head around -- the mind boggles
> at these numbers -- but it strikes me that the "we keep our
> books closed" owners are likely making money hand-over-fist
> if they're offering Gil Meche $10 million per year and Ichiro
> Suzuki $20 million per year. And if the market is right on
> those players, then yeah, I can imagine ARod's being worth
> $30 million per year. Or at least asking for that. I have
> no idea if he'll get it or not, but if any player is worth
> that much money, Alex Rodriguez might be.
>
> Catch you later.
> --Robert Machemer
>

I could see A-rod getting that much too, but is A-rod really worth 10
million more dollars than Ichiro? Is A-rod worth 1/3rd more than Ichiro
is?

If Ichiro is worth 20 million a year (not even on the open market) than
so are A LOT of other guys
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

Todd venit, vidit, et dixit:

<apparent snip of my attribution>

>> I find it difficult to wrap my head around -- the mind boggles
>> at these numbers -- but it strikes me that the "we keep our
>> books closed" owners are likely making money hand-over-fist
>> if they're offering Gil Meche $10 million per year and Ichiro
>> Suzuki $20 million per year. And if the market is right on
>> those players, then yeah, I can imagine ARod's being worth
>> $30 million per year. Or at least asking for that. I have
>> no idea if he'll get it or not, but if any player is worth
>> that much money, Alex Rodriguez might be.

> I could see A-rod getting that much too, but is A-rod really
> worth 10 million more dollars than Ichiro? Is A-rod worth
> 1/3rd more than Ichiro is?

Given age and performance, I think he might be.

VORP
Rodriguez Suzuki
2003 88.4 28.3
2004 52.3 69.6
2005 91.0 34.1
2006 51.6 46.4
2007 54.5 44.0
2007* 102.7 83.9

* = prorated to a 162-game season

I think it's entirely possible that I'm wrong, but if I
had to bet (from reading the tea leaves and consulting my
patented WFG system), I'd bet on ARod's being worth 1.3
Suzukis over the next five years.

> If Ichiro is worth 20 million a year (not even on the open
> market) than so are A LOT of other guys

Depending on how many people are "a lot" (or even "A LOT"),
I agree.

Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer


--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
IF22: Cliff wins best film, cast | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"Can't complain; had his chance, and in modern parlance, blew it."
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

"OceanView" <me.RemoveThis@TheSea.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996BB354F5D3Aoceanbaby@66.250.146.128...

> Has anybody calculated, based one gate receipts alone, what a team like
> the
> Red Sox (who sell out 40k tickets every game) actually pulls in per 81
> home
> dates? It should be that hard to do. (Not counting all the TV deals
> merchandizing and so on. You could probably add, conservatively, 100
> million with all that, at least for big market teams.)
>
Last I heard (perhaps a year or 2 ago), the Red Sox had the highest gate
receipts
in the majors, at around $100M and that with the Sox having the highest
ticket prices
and a park that only holds around 35-36,000 fannies.
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:44:26 GMT, "Bob-Nob" <bobnob15 RemoveThis @SPaMol.com>
wrote:

>I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
>Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
>are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
>few.

I wouldn't include the Twins. They have their own prospective free
agent(s) to worry about, headed by Santana.


Gary
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

"John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:46967fa7$0$97234$892e7fe2
@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:

> <DonFromBarre DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:17599-4696793F-281@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net...
>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?
>>
>>
>
> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt out.
>
>
>
>
I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that much, and only if
they make the playoffs.

Maybe someday Boras and Don King will board a plane together and ...

--
-------
Say it loud
http://tinyurl.com/39rhxa
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

OceanView venit, vidit, et dixit:
> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <DonFromBarre.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote...

>>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?

>> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt
>> out.

> I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that
> much, and only if they make the playoffs.

I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
few.

According to...

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004_12_29_mlbcontracts_archive.html

....the Red Sox currently have a payroll of around $145 million.
In Clement ($9.5), Hinkse ($2., perhaps Lowell ($9.0), perhaps
Schilling ($13.0), perhaps Tavarez ($3.1), Pineiro ($4.0), possibly
Wakefield ($4.0), Timlin ($2., perhaps Donnelly ($1.4), and
perhaps Mirabelli ($0., the Sox have roughly $50 million coming
off the books.

More important, almost NONE of the above players are without
immediate replacement. The Sox have an option on Tavarez for
$3.8 -- barring injury, I'd guess they keep him. They have an
option on Wakefield for $4.0 -- I'd guess they keep him too.
(That may mean they keep Mirabelli as well, but I'd guess that
they won't -- his year this year is so horrific, that they may
try to groom another backup and bite the bullet on all the
passed balls in the short term).

Anyone else? If Donnelly recovers from injury, he'll want
more than $1.4 million and may well be able to get a huge
payday elsewhere. The Sox may be interested in bringing
Schilling back, but other teams may offer more than the
Sox (who I think are right not to offer $13 million for
now).

So what does the team look like for next year...

C: Varitek
1B: Youkilis
2B: Pedroia
SS: Lugo
3B: ???
LF: Ramirez
CF: Crisp (Ellsbury?)
RF: Drew
DH: Ortiz

bench?: Cora, a catcher, an OF, a corner infielder, someone else?

SP: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz, Lester
RP: Papelbon, Okajima, Tavarez, Delcarmen, Lopez

others?: Gabbard, Breslow, Pauley, some unsigned vets

Let's say the Sox get ARod for $30 million a year. The
payroll looks to be roughly the same as it was this year
and the only major change to the lineup is that you've
replaced Lowell with Rodriguez.

Incidentally, this is why having players like Youkilis
and Pedroia during their pre-arbitration years is so
important. Because you have cheap league-average (or,
in their case this year, better) production, and you
can spend the big bucks to fill other holes through
free agency.

Of course, the Sox don't have to go after Rodriguez.
But they have a need for a righty bat, they have a
need for a third baseman, they have a need to improve
their offense... it'd be crazy not to at least
consider trying to acquire him, though he may well
ask for more than they're willing to pay.

The thing is that Lowell is being paid $9 million a year.
Gary Matthews who has had exactly one good season is
getting paid more than that and is only 6 months younger.
(Wow. I was surprised to read that, but it's true). I'll
be surprised if Lowell can't find someone to pay him $14
million a year for umpteen years if he doesn't fall off
too much in the second half -- but that doesn't mean I'd
want the Sox to pay that, though they might have to if
they want to sign him as a free agent.

Again, I'm not saying that the Sox should offer ARod
$30 million. I am saying that I'd consider it if I
ran the Sox -- I don't see a lot of other third base
options available right this second, neither in the
minors, nor in the upcoming free agent market.

Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer

--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
IF22: Cliff wins best film, cast | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"Can't complain; had his chance, and in modern parlance, blew it."
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

"Bob-Nob" <bobnob15.TakeThisOut@SPaMol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996B8BC7517F9bobnob15aolcom@207.217.125.201...
> OceanView venit, vidit, et dixit:
>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <DonFromBarre.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote...
>
>>>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?
>
>>> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt
>>> out.
>
>> I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that
>> much, and only if they make the playoffs.
>
> I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
> Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
> are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
> few.
>
> According to...
>
> http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004_12_29_mlbcontracts_archive.html
>
> ...the Red Sox currently have a payroll of around $145 million.
> In Clement ($9.5), Hinkse ($2., perhaps Lowell ($9.0), perhaps
> Schilling ($13.0), perhaps Tavarez ($3.1), Pineiro ($4.0), possibly
> Wakefield ($4.0), Timlin ($2., perhaps Donnelly ($1.4), and
> perhaps Mirabelli ($0., the Sox have roughly $50 million coming
> off the books.
>
> More important, almost NONE of the above players are without
> immediate replacement. The Sox have an option on Tavarez for
> $3.8 -- barring injury, I'd guess they keep him. They have an
> option on Wakefield for $4.0 -- I'd guess they keep him too.
> (That may mean they keep Mirabelli as well, but I'd guess that
> they won't -- his year this year is so horrific, that they may
> try to groom another backup and bite the bullet on all the
> passed balls in the short term).
>
> Anyone else? If Donnelly recovers from injury, he'll want
> more than $1.4 million and may well be able to get a huge
> payday elsewhere. The Sox may be interested in bringing
> Schilling back, but other teams may offer more than the
> Sox (who I think are right not to offer $13 million for
> now).
>
> So what does the team look like for next year...
>
> C: Varitek
> 1B: Youkilis
> 2B: Pedroia
> SS: Lugo
> 3B: ???
> LF: Ramirez
> CF: Crisp (Ellsbury?)
> RF: Drew
> DH: Ortiz
>
> bench?: Cora, a catcher, an OF, a corner infielder, someone else?
>
> SP: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz, Lester
> RP: Papelbon, Okajima, Tavarez, Delcarmen, Lopez
>
> others?: Gabbard, Breslow, Pauley, some unsigned vets
>
> Let's say the Sox get ARod for $30 million a year. The
> payroll looks to be roughly the same as it was this year
> and the only major change to the lineup is that you've
> replaced Lowell with Rodriguez.
>
> Incidentally, this is why having players like Youkilis
> and Pedroia during their pre-arbitration years is so
> important. Because you have cheap league-average (or,
> in their case this year, better) production, and you
> can spend the big bucks to fill other holes through
> free agency.
>
> Of course, the Sox don't have to go after Rodriguez.
> But they have a need for a righty bat, they have a
> need for a third baseman, they have a need to improve
> their offense... it'd be crazy not to at least
> consider trying to acquire him, though he may well
> ask for more than they're willing to pay.
>
> The thing is that Lowell is being paid $9 million a year.
> Gary Matthews who has had exactly one good season is
> getting paid more than that and is only 6 months younger.
> (Wow. I was surprised to read that, but it's true). I'll
> be surprised if Lowell can't find someone to pay him $14
> million a year for umpteen years if he doesn't fall off
> too much in the second half -- but that doesn't mean I'd
> want the Sox to pay that, though they might have to if
> they want to sign him as a free agent.
>
> Again, I'm not saying that the Sox should offer ARod
> $30 million. I am saying that I'd consider it if I
> ran the Sox -- I don't see a lot of other third base
> options available right this second, neither in the
> minors, nor in the upcoming free agent market.
>

Boy...swapping Lowell for A-Rod...THAT oughta be a big hit in the clubhouse.

I wonder if A-Rod isn't interested in someplace he could return to SS.

If Lowell could get 14 million...what do you suppose Teixeira will command?
I might be more interested in going after him and moving Youkilis back to
third...as reluctant as I am to mess with his (Youk's) success.

This is still another reason I was, and continue to be aggravated about Theo
being so determined to bring Lugo in here. I can't see anyway out of him
being our SS for some time, and that would have been the best way to get
A-Rod here.
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

"Bob-Nob" <bobnob15 RemoveThis @SPaMol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996B8BC7517F9bobnob15aolcom@207.217.125.201...
> OceanView venit, vidit, et dixit:
>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <DonFromBarre RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote...
>
>>>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?
>
>>> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt
>>> out.
>
>> I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that
>> much, and only if they make the playoffs.
>
> I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
> Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
> are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
> few.


I wouldn't put the Twins in that group.

Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers. Maybe 1 or 2 others,
but I wouldn't be so sure. Also with that list, I see a common thread...
big market teams that likely all have large local TV contracts.







>
> According to...
>
> http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004_12_29_mlbcontracts_archive.html
>
> ...the Red Sox currently have a payroll of around $145 million.
> In Clement ($9.5), Hinkse ($2., perhaps Lowell ($9.0), perhaps
> Schilling ($13.0), perhaps Tavarez ($3.1), Pineiro ($4.0), possibly
> Wakefield ($4.0), Timlin ($2., perhaps Donnelly ($1.4), and
> perhaps Mirabelli ($0., the Sox have roughly $50 million coming
> off the books.

I heard a number around $42-43M, so I guess you're in the ballpark,
so to speak.




>
> More important, almost NONE of the above players are without
> immediate replacement. The Sox have an option on Tavarez for
> $3.8 -- barring injury, I'd guess they keep him. They have an
> option on Wakefield for $4.0 -- I'd guess they keep him too.
> (That may mean they keep Mirabelli as well, but I'd guess that
> they won't -- his year this year is so horrific, that they may
> try to groom another backup and bite the bullet on all the
> passed balls in the short term).
>
> Anyone else? If Donnelly recovers from injury, he'll want
> more than $1.4 million and may well be able to get a huge
> payday elsewhere. The Sox may be interested in bringing
> Schilling back, but other teams may offer more than the
> Sox (who I think are right not to offer $13 million for
> now).

I'm not so sure about Donnelly only because he really hasn't
pitched all that many innings to date. And the longer the season
goes on, the more likely it looks to me that the Sox won't want
to re-sign Schilling. I'm beginning to think that the Sox will either
look for a younger FA to sign, although the word is that this
off-season won't be a good one for FA pitchers, OR the Sox
may look inward for starting pitchers.



>
> So what does the team look like for next year...
>
> C: Varitek
> 1B: Youkilis
> 2B: Pedroia
> SS: Lugo
> 3B: ???
> LF: Ramirez
> CF: Crisp (Ellsbury?)
> RF: Drew
> DH: Ortiz
>

I'd probably say 1B/3B: Youkilis and 3B/1B: unknown, since the Sox
may simply fill one or the other based on who's available and what
they're willing to pay, and then just put Youk into the other slot.


I'll say it again, unless Manny has a spectacular 2nd half, I'd seriously
consider trading him, rather than Coco, and I'd stick Coco in LF and
Ellsbury in CF, and at the same time look for a new big stick LF for
the future.





> bench?: Cora, a catcher, an OF, a corner infielder, someone else?
>
> SP: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz, Lester

I'm not sure about Buchholz only because it feels a little soon
to be looking for Buchholz to fill a rotation start coming out
of spring training, but who knows?

And I wouldn't be exactly shocked to see Tavarez in the rotation
next year, at least coming out of ST.



> RP: Papelbon, Okajima, Tavarez, Delcarmen, Lopez


The first four seem pretty certain, although JT may end up
staying in the rotation. Not so sure about Lopez, because
whenever I see him pitch, he looks like he should be a LOOGY,
but his numbers don't match up with what a LOOGY should
be able to do, as we've mentioned in other posts.






>
> others?: Gabbard, Breslow, Pauley, some unsigned vets
>
> Let's say the Sox get ARod for $30 million a year. The
> payroll looks to be roughly the same as it was this year
> and the only major change to the lineup is that you've
> replaced Lowell with Rodriguez.
>
> Incidentally, this is why having players like Youkilis
> and Pedroia during their pre-arbitration years is so
> important. Because you have cheap league-average (or,
> in their case this year, better) production, and you
> can spend the big bucks to fill other holes through
> free agency.

I agree, although I have to say that I'd like to see the Sox
try to get guys like Youkilis and Papelbon signed to some
long term deals before they get too close to the end of their
rookie contracts.



>
> Of course, the Sox don't have to go after Rodriguez.
> But they have a need for a righty bat, they have a
> need for a third baseman, they have a need to improve
> their offense... it'd be crazy not to at least
> consider trying to acquire him, though he may well
> ask for more than they're willing to pay.

While I hate the idea of having such an expensive player
on the roster, his immense RH bat would look good in
this lineup, particularly since Manny seems to be declining.

Something else to consider... Is Arod going to be wanting
to move back to SS, if he opts out of his current contract?
Given that Lugo's already signed to a long deal, that would
make picking up Arod even more expensive.



>
> The thing is that Lowell is being paid $9 million a year.
> Gary Matthews who has had exactly one good season is
> getting paid more than that and is only 6 months younger.
> (Wow. I was surprised to read that, but it's true). I'll
> be surprised if Lowell can't find someone to pay him $14
> million a year for umpteen years if he doesn't fall off
> too much in the second half -- but that doesn't mean I'd
> want the Sox to pay that, though they might have to if
> they want to sign him as a free agent.

I'd have no problem with keeping Lowell at 3b for reasonable
money and a reasonable contract length. The guy is a solid, classy
pro and when you look at all the 3B-men floating around now,
short of picking up Arod, there are few others who could match
what Lowell brings. And one thing that we know, he likes being
here and seems completely able to handle the pressure. And I
think that this is something that shouldn't be overlooked, given
past experience.
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

Fred Burton venit, vidit, et dixit:
> "Bob-Nob" <bobnob15.TakeThisOut@SPaMol.com> wrote...
>> OceanView venit, vidit, et dixit:
>>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <DonFromBarre.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote...

>>>>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?

>>>> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt
>>>> out.

>>> I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that
>>> much, and only if they make the playoffs.

>> I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
>> Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
>> are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
>> few.

> I wouldn't put the Twins in that group.

If I remember correctly, the owner of the Twins has a LOT more
money than most other owners. I'm not saying that the Twins
WOULD, but the Twins CAN. I would be surprised if they made
that particular investment, but I think there's nothing preventing
them from making it.

> Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers. Maybe 1 or 2 others,
> but I wouldn't be so sure. Also with that list, I see a common
> thread... big market teams that likely all have large local TV
> contracts.

Sure. But there are "small market" teams like the Phillies
and White Sox who actually reside in big markets but are
risk-averse. If they'd take the risk, they might find that
they could bring in more fans and earn themselves a better
tv contract. Then again, they might not. It's a risk.

<snip>

> I'll say it again, unless Manny has a spectacular 2nd half,
> I'd seriously consider trading him, rather than Coco, and I'd
> stick Coco in LF and Ellsbury in CF, and at the same time look
> for a new big stick LF for the future.

I have no problem with trading Ramirez (and one can check google
to see verification of that), but I would not trade him after this
year unless he had a very good second half. I strondly suspect
that this year (so far) is a down year for him -- I wouldn't want
to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.

The time to trade him was this past offseason, coming off a good
year. Coming off a mediocre year, you're selling low. A resurgent
Crisp may be more tradeable (in terms of getting more back for how
much he's actually worth -- Ramirez is worth more and would return
more in trade, but he might be undervalued for now).

<snip>

>> SP: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz, Lester

> I'm not sure about Buchholz only because it feels a little soon
> to be looking for Buchholz to fill a rotation start coming out
> of spring training, but who knows?

Fair enough.

> And I wouldn't be exactly shocked to see Tavarez in the rotation
> next year, at least coming out of ST.

Nor would I.

<snip>

> While I hate the idea of having such an expensive player
> on the roster, his immense RH bat would look good in
> this lineup, particularly since Manny seems to be declining.

I think Ramirez is better than he's looked. His April was
godawful. Since then, his May was typical and his June was
a typical sort of "down month" for him. I expect his numbers
to continue to go up, even though I expect his overall numbers
to be down for the year. It can be tough to overcome as lousy
a start as Ramirez had.

> Something else to consider... Is Arod going to be wanting
> to move back to SS, if he opts out of his current contract?
> Given that Lugo's already signed to a long deal, that would
> make picking up Arod even more expensive.

Well, if there were any way of trading Lugo, playing Rodriguez
at short, and finding a halfway decent first/third baseman
(whichever Youkilis doesn't play), I'd be fine with that.
Lugo is pretty untradeable for right now, so I didn't bother
even suggesting it, but I'm on the same page as far as preferring
Rodriguez to Lugo at short.

<snip>

> I'd have no problem with keeping Lowell at 3b for reasonable
> money and a reasonable contract length. The guy is a solid, classy
> pro and when you look at all the 3B-men floating around now,
> short of picking up Arod, there are few others who could match
> what Lowell brings. And one thing that we know, he likes being
> here and seems completely able to handle the pressure. And I
> think that this is something that shouldn't be overlooked, given
> past experience.

I don't place a lot of emphasis on experience or anything like that,
but I'm with you as far as thinking that if Lowell were affordable,
I'd keep him. I don't anticipate his price staying within a range
that I'd consider acceptable, however. I think he'll be a better
deal than Gary Matthews, but I don't think that's saying much.

Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer

--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
IF22: Cliff wins best film, cast | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"Can't complain; had his chance, and in modern parlance, blew it."
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:58:14 GMT, "Bob-Nob" <bobnob15.TakeThisOut@SPaMol.com>
wrote:

>Pohlad can afford to pay a Santana and a Rodriguez. He chooses
>not to do so. (No worries, it's his money he's investing. If
>he thinks it's not a worthy investment, who am I to tell him
>otherwise? But I don't think we should pretend that he CAN'T

What he can afford and what he spends are two different things. Based
on his history, he isn't going to be giving Arod a $30M contract.

Hopefully, he re-signs Santana, which is more likely than signing
Arod.
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

"Bob-Nob" <bobnob15 DeleteThis @SPaMol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996BAB6E547B1bobnob15aolcom@207.217.125.201...
> Fred Burton venit, vidit, et dixit:
>> "Bob-Nob" <bobnob15 DeleteThis @SPaMol.com> wrote...
>>> OceanView venit, vidit, et dixit:
>>>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <DonFromBarre DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote...
>
>>>>>> Boras is saying at least $32 mil per for ARod?
>
>>>>> Well, it's what he would be paid next year if he does not opt
>>>>> out.
>
>>>> I think there's exactly ONE team that can or would pay that
>>>> much, and only if they make the playoffs.
>
>>> I think there are several teams that can -- the Mets, the Red
>>> Sox, the Yankees, the Twins, to name a few -- and I think there
>>> are several that might -- the Red Sox, the Yankees, to name a
>>> few.
>
>> I wouldn't put the Twins in that group.
>
> If I remember correctly, the owner of the Twins has a LOT more
> money than most other owners. I'm not saying that the Twins
> WOULD, but the Twins CAN. I would be surprised if they made
> that particular investment, but I think there's nothing preventing
> them from making it.

Fair enough, regarding the Twins' rich owner. But as you note, the Twins
don't have a history of spending major dollars, so I think that "can" is
irrelevent and "won't" is vastly more likely. Remember, this a team that
seem likely to let Torii Hunter go, so I hardly see them making a move
on Arod.




>
>> Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers. Maybe 1 or 2 others,
>> but I wouldn't be so sure. Also with that list, I see a common
>> thread... big market teams that likely all have large local TV
>> contracts.
>
> Sure. But there are "small market" teams like the Phillies
> and White Sox who actually reside in big markets but are
> risk-averse. If they'd take the risk, they might find that
> they could bring in more fans and earn themselves a better
> tv contract. Then again, they might not. It's a risk.

True, but just how big are those teams' TV contracts? They
may be in apparantly big markets, but are they pulling in
big market TV bucks?




>
> <snip>
>
>> I'll say it again, unless Manny has a spectacular 2nd half,
>> I'd seriously consider trading him, rather than Coco, and I'd
>> stick Coco in LF and Ellsbury in CF, and at the same time look
>> for a new big stick LF for the future.
>
> I have no problem with trading Ramirez (and one can check google
> to see verification of that), but I would not trade him after this
> year unless he had a very good second half. I strondly suspect
> that this year (so far) is a down year for him -- I wouldn't want
> to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.
>
> The time to trade him was this past offseason, coming off a good
> year. Coming off a mediocre year, you're selling low. A resurgent
> Crisp may be more tradeable (in terms of getting more back for how
> much he's actually worth -- Ramirez is worth more and would return
> more in trade, but he might be undervalued for now).

Bob, I'm looking at it from a different perspective. Manny might get us
less in return, but since I'm not really looking for anyone to fill a
everyday
slot in return and would only be trading him to free up a slot for Ellsbury
and would be keeping Coco to play LF, I'm less worried about the return.

So, yes, Coco might get more in return, or at least more as a percentage
of his apparant value, since I'm questioning Manny's value going forward,
I'm thinking that I'm looking at addition by subtraction by clearing an
everyday slot and keeping a solid, younger player (Coco), who, BTW, I
could turn around in another trade if we could find a young RH big bat to
play LF.

>
>> While I hate the idea of having such an expensive player
>> on the roster, his immense RH bat would look good in
>> this lineup, particularly since Manny seems to be declining.
>
> I think Ramirez is better than he's looked. His April was
> godawful. Since then, his May was typical and his June was
> a typical sort of "down month" for him. I expect his numbers
> to continue to go up, even though I expect his overall numbers
> to be down for the year. It can be tough to overcome as lousy
> a start as Ramirez had.

I don't know. I just don't know. Most every year, Manny gets off
to a slow start and warms up. But one of these years, he's going to
start slow and not heat up in the old Manny fashion. And I'm not
sure that we'll be able to see it coming, since we have such faith
that "Manny will heat up come summer". This is one of the reasons
that I wouldn't mind trading Manny while he may have some value
and we have another outfielder (Ellsbury) who we can combine
with Coco and Drew (to a lesser degree, with plenty of hope) to
create what would seem to be a really nice, young outfield.



>
>> Something else to consider... Is Arod going to be wanting
>> to move back to SS, if he opts out of his current contract?
>> Given that Lugo's already signed to a long deal, that would
>> make picking up Arod even more expensive.
>
> Well, if there were any way of trading Lugo, playing Rodriguez
> at short, and finding a halfway decent first/third baseman
> (whichever Youkilis doesn't play), I'd be fine with that.
> Lugo is pretty untradeable for right now, so I didn't bother
> even suggesting it, but I'm on the same page as far as preferring
> Rodriguez to Lugo at short.
>
> <snip>
>
>> I'd have no problem with keeping Lowell at 3b for reasonable
>> money and a reasonable contract length. The guy is a solid, classy
>> pro and when you look at all the 3B-men floating around now,
>> short of picking up Arod, there are few others who could match
>> what Lowell brings. And one thing that we know, he likes being
>> here and seems completely able to handle the pressure. And I
>> think that this is something that shouldn't be overlooked, given
>> past experience.
>
> I don't place a lot of emphasis on experience or anything like that,

You do realize, don't you, that when I said "given past experience",
I was refering to the team's experience with Rentaria and his apparant
inability to handle the pressure of playing in Boston, whereas Lowell
seems to thrive in Boston reasonably well. Just as when the Sox made
an apparant mistake in letting go of a player who appeared to thrive in
the pressure of Fenway (i.e. OC), I'd hate to see the Sox made the
mistake of letting go of a 3B-man who thrives in Fenway and get stuck
with another player (not refering to Arod in particular, BTW) who
can't handle the pressure.




> but I'm with you as far as thinking that if Lowell were affordable,
> I'd keep him. I don't anticipate his price staying within a range
> that I'd consider acceptable, however. I think he'll be a better
> deal than Gary Matthews, but I don't think that's saying much.

I think that it depends on whether he's willing to give the Red Sox
a bit of a discount to stay here. I'm not sure that the Sox would be
interested in signing him for ~$14M/yr for 3-4 years. Carlos Pena
might be a better alternative, with Youk moving back to 3rd.

That said, losing Lowell and replacing him with another lefty back
wouldn't be a good thing for the L/R balance in the lineup, which
arguably might be another little thing in Lowell's favor.
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ??? 

<Maybe someday Boras and Don King will board a plane together and...>

Maybe we could hook Boras up with Dr. Kevorkian. He just got out of
prison, didn't he?
 >> Stay informed about: Did I hear this right ???