future bull pen

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"Dano" <janeanddano DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e96dneO8MPWkNgXZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Harry" <harry03 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:crqdncLAe6N3PgXZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> let's project timlin for the 7th, hansen for the 8th and papelbon to
>> close.
>>
>> that is as good as current teams last three innings.
>>
>>
>> i hope hansen is not being showcased for some team looking for a closer.
>> i would rather see him become the closer and getting papelbon back to
>> starting next year. that is as good as any trade hansen can get. willis
>> would be nice but please !!!! not hansen\\\
>>
> From what Paplebon is now saying, you're gonna have to fight him to give
> up closing. He wants to continue as closer permanently. He loves it that
> much. Better to convert Hansen to starting.
>
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

Harry wrote in message ...
>let's project timlin for the 7th, hansen for the 8th and papelbon to close.
>
>that is as good as current teams last three innings.
>


A. I think that as long as Timlin stays healthy and effective, he's the 8th
inning set-up reliever.

B. I think that Hansen's more likely to be the guy who comes in the game
before Timlin.

C. Let's not write Hansen's HOF ticket yet. I like the kid's potential as
much as anyone in this NG, but let's give the kid a chance to grow into
being a major leaguer pitcher first.

and D. If Hansen does live up to his potential this season, I'll agree that
the Sox would appear to have one hell of a bullpen. Heck, it would be even
better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:13:15 -0400, "Dano" <janeanddano.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:


>From what Paplebon is now saying, you're gonna have to fight him to give up
>closing. He wants to continue as closer permanently. He loves it that
>much. Better to convert Hansen to starting.
>

It still wouldn't surprise me if they still convert Papelbon to a
starter next season if Hanson shows he can handle the job. Of course,
if his ERA stays at .020 or so, it might be a little difficult to
change his role.

While not an expert on pitching mechanics, I have heard some say that
his delivery is more conducive to pitching in relief rather than
starting.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

"Fred Burton" <fburton DeleteThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
news:e7afer$1v86$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>
> Harry wrote in message ...
>>let's project timlin for the 7th, hansen for the 8th and papelbon to
>>close.
>>
>>that is as good as current teams last three innings.
>>
>
>
> A. I think that as long as Timlin stays healthy and effective, he's the
> 8th
> inning set-up reliever.
>
> B. I think that Hansen's more likely to be the guy who comes in the game
> before Timlin.
>
> C. Let's not write Hansen's HOF ticket yet. I like the kid's potential
> as
> much as anyone in this NG, but let's give the kid a chance to grow into
> being a major leaguer pitcher first.
>
> and D. If Hansen does live up to his potential this season, I'll agree
> that
> the Sox would appear to have one hell of a bullpen. Heck, it would be
> even
> better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.
>
I'll throw the ghastly to some and improbable to most scenerio out there:

E. Seanez and Tavarez regain their form an start putting up '05 and '04
numbers. Now THAT would be a bullpen!
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

"Dano" <janeanddano RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
news:e96dneO8MPWkNgXZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com:

> From what Paplebon is now saying, you're gonna have to fight him to give
> up closing. He wants to continue as closer permanently. He loves it
> that much. Better to convert Hansen to starting.
>
>

It shows. I know he can't be this good forever, but damn he's good right
now.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

"Fred Burton" <fburton.DeleteThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
news:e7afer$1v86$1@pyrite.mv.net...

> A. I think that as long as Timlin stays healthy and effective, he's the
> 8th
> inning set-up reliever.

order was not my message - just the consumption of the last third of the
game.

>
> B. I think that Hansen's more likely to be the guy who comes in the game
> before Timlin.
>
> C. Let's not write Hansen's HOF ticket yet. I like the kid's potential
> as
> much as anyone in this NG, but let's give the kid a chance to grow into
> being a major leaguer pitcher first.

But even TODAY he is better than many teams second or third bull pen
pitchers. the braves were using ex lynn sprits players and the yankees are
scrapping the minors for has beens and want to be's. these last three
innings could be powerful statements if the starter goes 6. look at
schilling - it appears to me that he struggles in the 7th and 8th after a
great first 6 - what would his record be if he could have left strong and
then been stronger for the next start. i like this. many decarmin could be a
good fourth when needed.

>
> and D. If Hansen does live up to his potential this season, I'll agree
> that
> the Sox would appear to have one hell of a bullpen. Heck, it would be
> even
> better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.

foulke needs to go - he needs to see a new place to start over. he will
never crack this trio if all are healthy. trade him to a team that needs
help - like the braves. what a sorry staff they are using today.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

Harry wrote in message ...
>
>"Fred Burton" <fburton.DeleteThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
>news:e7afer$1v86$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>
>> A. I think that as long as Timlin stays healthy and effective, he's the
>> 8th
>> inning set-up reliever.
>
>order was not my message - just the consumption of the last third of the
>game.
>
>>
>> B. I think that Hansen's more likely to be the guy who comes in the game
>> before Timlin.
>>
>> C. Let's not write Hansen's HOF ticket yet. I like the kid's potential
>> as
>> much as anyone in this NG, but let's give the kid a chance to grow into
>> being a major leaguer pitcher first.
>
>But even TODAY he is better than many teams second or third bull pen
>pitchers. the braves were using ex lynn sprits players and the yankees are
>scrapping the minors for has beens and want to be's. these last three
>innings could be powerful statements if the starter goes 6. look at
>schilling - it appears to me that he struggles in the 7th and 8th after a
>great first 6 - what would his record be if he could have left strong and
>then been stronger for the next start. i like this. many decarmin could be
a
>good fourth when needed.

All this is probably true. But still, let's not put the cart before the
horse. Let's give the kid some time to grow into being a major leaguer
before we start nominating him for sainthood.





>
>>
>> and D. If Hansen does live up to his potential this season, I'll agree
>> that
>> the Sox would appear to have one hell of a bullpen. Heck, it would be
>> even
>> better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.
>
>foulke needs to go - he needs to see a new place to start over. he will
>never crack this trio if all are healthy. trade him to a team that needs
>help - like the braves. what a sorry staff they are using today.
>
Not gonna happen. Foulke's got a big contract that nobody's gonna want to
absorb. If he's healthy and effective, he'll take the place of someone like
Seanez or Tavarez.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

>>>better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.
>>
>>foulke needs to go - he needs to see a new place to start over. he will
>>never crack this trio if all are healthy. trade him to a team that needs
>>help - like the braves. what a sorry staff they are using today.
>>
>
> Not gonna happen. Foulke's got a big contract that nobody's gonna want to
> absorb. If he's healthy and effective, he'll take the place of someone like
> Seanez or Tavarez.



hey - i just had a very strange idea - maybe they ought to
groom Foulke into a Starter.....



- nate
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

Nate Smith wrote in message ...
>>>>better if Foulke could get healthy and effective again.
>>>
>>>foulke needs to go - he needs to see a new place to start over. he will
>>>never crack this trio if all are healthy. trade him to a team that needs
>>>help - like the braves. what a sorry staff they are using today.
>>>
>>
>> Not gonna happen. Foulke's got a big contract that nobody's gonna want
to
>> absorb. If he's healthy and effective, he'll take the place of someone
like
>> Seanez or Tavarez.
>
>
>
> hey - i just had a very strange idea - maybe they ought to
> groom Foulke into a Starter.....
>
Probably too late in his career to do that, particularly considering his
health issues. it's a bit out of the box, but wierder things have happened.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:41:54 -0400, "Harry" <harry03.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
wrote:

>let's project timlin for the 7th, hansen for the 8th and papelbon to close.
>
>that is as good as current teams last three innings.
>
>
>i hope hansen is not being showcased for some team looking for a closer. i
>would rather see him become the closer and getting papelbon back to starting
>next year. that is as good as any trade hansen can get. willis would be nice
>but please !!!! not hansen\\\
>

I hate all this talk about Papelbon being converted to a starter next
year.. That would be asinine.
The guy is a closer. He was a closer during his college career.
He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a world class
major league closer too. He's got to stay in that role at least until
that's proven otherwise. Superstar closers don't grow on trees.
Mariano Rivera is the classic example. He wasn't that great as a
starter. Hitters get to see him a second, third, or fourth time in
the same day, and they start to get used to his incredible stuff.
Plus, he can't throw balls-to-the-wall for the whole game...he's got
to pace himself a bit and then all of a sudden he's hittable.
But when he throws an inning a day, he's practically unhittable.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has been nearly as valuable to the Yankmees
during Rivera's reign.
So now we finally get ourselves a Rivera, and everyone wants to turn
him into a starter. Unbelievably stupid.
My hope is that the sox brass is just using this as a motivational
tool for the kid. They know he wants to close...he's made that very
clear. So they keep "threatening" to convert him, forcing him to
continually prove that closer is the only sensible role for him.
I read in SI that his kid brother is also a closer, and the family
gameplan is for the big brother to stay in the closer role for as long
as he can dominate, and then hand over the job to the little brother.
But the kid has some weird looking stuff. He's a total submariner.

Time will tell, but in the meantime, if it aint broke, don't fix it !

--N
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

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 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

Noydb222 wrote in message <9a4j92p2eshubmcs9smbsmrpb0g63as48n.DeleteThis@4ax.com>...
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:41:54 -0400, "Harry" <harry03.DeleteThis@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>let's project timlin for the 7th, hansen for the 8th and papelbon to
close.
>>
>>that is as good as current teams last three innings.
>>
>>
>>i hope hansen is not being showcased for some team looking for a closer. i
>>would rather see him become the closer and getting papelbon back to
starting
>>next year. that is as good as any trade hansen can get. willis would be
nice
>>but please !!!! not hansen\\\
>>
>
>I hate all this talk about Papelbon being converted to a starter next
>year.. That would be asinine.
>The guy is a closer. He was a closer during his college career.
>He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a world class
>major league closer too. He's got to stay in that role at least until
>that's proven otherwise. Superstar closers don't grow on trees.
>Mariano Rivera is the classic example. He wasn't that great as a
>starter. Hitters get to see him a second, third, or fourth time in
>the same day, and they start to get used to his incredible stuff.
>Plus, he can't throw balls-to-the-wall for the whole game...he's got
>to pace himself a bit and then all of a sudden he's hittable.
>But when he throws an inning a day, he's practically unhittable.
>Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has been nearly as valuable to the Yankmees
>during Rivera's reign.
>So now we finally get ourselves a Rivera, and everyone wants to turn
>him into a starter. Unbelievably stupid.
>My hope is that the sox brass is just using this as a motivational
>tool for the kid. They know he wants to close...he's made that very
>clear. So they keep "threatening" to convert him, forcing him to
>continually prove that closer is the only sensible role for him.
>I read in SI that his kid brother is also a closer, and the family
>gameplan is for the big brother to stay in the closer role for as long
>as he can dominate, and then hand over the job to the little brother.
>But the kid has some weird looking stuff. He's a total submariner.
>
>Time will tell, but in the meantime, if it aint broke, don't fix it !
>
>--N

I think that part of the discussion regrading Paps as a starter relates to
the thought that Hansen could end up taking over the closer role, cuz Paps
may seem to have the better mix of stuff to be a starter.

I don't want to get into the debate over the relative values of closers vs
starters all over again. However, let me put it this way. if the Sox could
build a good rotation without having to give up Paps as a closer, I would
not be unhappy. As you've said, Papelbon is one HELL of a closer. And
great closers are a great weapon on good teams. Riveria made the Yanks a
great team even when they didn't have the best of starters, simply because
if their offense could hold a lead into the 9th or even 8th inning, Riveria
has been, more often than not, able to hold on for the W.

Another thing is that we don't know if Paps would be a great starter or not.
But we do know that he's a great closer. So if the Sox can find a way to
build a rotation while keeping him as a closer, so much the better.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen 

<jes.t.er.RemoveThis@hexduxhmp.org> wrote in message
news:uomdnadTKMMgAQTZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Noydb222 <Noydb222.RemoveThis@fakeaddy.com> wrote:
>> The guy is a closer. He was a closer during his college career.
>
> People who advocate a player filling the role of a traditional
> closer prove themselves to be idiots as soon as they advocate it.
>

Ahh...nothing like good intelligent debating skill such as that. Calling
names always gets it done doesn't it?

Myself? As soon as someone stoops to that tactic I feel they have little
else to say that matters from that point on.
 >> Stay informed about: future bull pen