How bout the Dodgers step up...

On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
> > bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
> > reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
> > ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>
> precedent.

A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
died. Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills? Of course not.

There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
your eyes out for foul balls and bats. It's sad that someone got
hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
league is financially responsible for every one who does.

s/
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Sam Hutcheson" <samh.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:c45e1a9e-4ad4-41cd-81bd-2dbae1fb48ec@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
> > bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
> > reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
> > ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>
> precedent.

<<A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
died. Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills? Of course not.

There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
your eyes out for foul balls and bats. It's sad that someone got
hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
league is financially responsible for every one who does.>>

You are equating a fellow that did something completely and utterly stupid,
getting drunk several stories about the ground when he knew he'd be
navigating steep stairs, and a woman sitting in her seat watching the game?
Not, even close.

Yes, the team is responsible, the way all human beings are responsible for
each other. A simple gesture of good-will to foot the few thousand dollars
of medical expenses is not only human but will save them tons of money in
the long run.

Example: We all know the famous McDonald's coffee spilling case. The
insurance companies have most folks convinced it was completely ridiculous.
The facts are, at the time, McDonald's was serving coffee at 210 degrees.
That temperature is not drinkable. While everyone expects coffee to be hot
no one expects it to be scalding and result in third degree burns. All she
asked for was medical bills. When McDonald's refused, her attorneys started
to dig and found many many cases around the country of the same sort of
negligence on the part of McDonald's (210 degree coffee) that McDonald's
knew was causing serious injury. Not only did they not pay medical bills but
they refused to lower the dangerous temperature of the coffee. Thus the
lawsuit and the judgement of one day's coffee sales against McDonald's. To
an individual that is a ridiculous amount of money for a burn, even on the
crotch. However, would a lesser amount have caused them to reduce the
temperature of the coffee? Well, yes, because a judge reduced that amount by
a lot and McDonald's agreed to stop injuring people with their coffee. It
still cost McDonald's a lot more than that lady's medical bills.

Now, replace McDonald's with MLB and coffee with maple bats...
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
>>> bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
>>> reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
>>> ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>> precedent.
>
> A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
> down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
> died. Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills? Of course not.

As I recall, there's no question he had been drinking. The only
question was whether or not he was intoxicated (though logic would
suggest he probably was). I don't think that's analogous to this
situation, in any case, since that guy did it to himself.

> There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
> your eyes out for foul balls and bats. It's sad that someone got
> hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
> league is financially responsible for every one who does.

Of course, disclaimers don't abdicate responsibility, legally or
morally. And if she was indeed following the ball into the outfield,
you can hardly blame her for not seeing a broken bat coming her way.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

Triple wrote:
> "Sam Hutcheson" <samh.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:c45e1a9e-4ad4-41cd-81bd-2dbae1fb48ec@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
>>> bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
>>> reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
>>> ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>> precedent.
>
> <<A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
> down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
> died. Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills? Of course not.
>
> There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
> your eyes out for foul balls and bats. It's sad that someone got
> hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
> league is financially responsible for every one who does.>>
>
> You are equating a fellow that did something completely and utterly stupid,
> getting drunk several stories about the ground when he knew he'd be
> navigating steep stairs, and a woman sitting in her seat watching the game?
> Not, even close.

Actually, it was worse than that. He was sliding down a handrail and
fell off, and then tumbled down the concrete steps. He'd probably built
up a little speed, which would obviously be far worse than just falling
down while walking.

--
Now Playing: Deep Purple - Mistreated

"He has more patience and kindness than grandma. There's those grandmas
that have all the patience in the world with kids, and Bobby (Cox) has
that. I don't know how he does it, but he does it." - Terry Pendleton
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

On May 31, 9:57 am, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Triple" <rhag....TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:OY30k.1972$ZE5.1337@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
>
>
> > "JSM75" <JS....TakeThisOut@verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
> >news:yy20k.535$qP.474@trnddc03...
> >>http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-bats052908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
>
> >> and do the right thing?
>
> >> I have been in the line of a flying bat head and they are not easy to
> >> avoid.
> >> Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
> >> bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
> >> reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
> >> ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>
> > I am a true blue Dodger fan...the Dodgers should step up. Yes, it will be
> > a precedent. A precedent of a corporation actually caring about its
> > customers because they are fellow human beings. How often can this happen
> > a year? Lets say each team incurs 20K in costs a year. That isn't going to
> > break them.
>
> > You word the 'gift' made to these fans as a good will gesture or
> > charitable or anything else. Lawyers are smart, they could figure out a
> > way to do it that didn't set them up for something huge from a greedy ass.
>
> Corporations can be called many things, but one thing they are is practical.
> A corporation that survives primariliy on the basis of its relationship with
> the community would be stupid to not defuse a situation like this. I don't
> think precedent is an issue.( And what the hell's so terrible about the
> precedent that if you get hurt at the game through no act of negligence on
> your part, we'll help you out with the medical bills?) As I said, good
> corporations are, at bottom, practical.. stupid ones go broke, and should.
>
> S.

I wonder if selig got involved and told the mccourt and the rest of
the FO not to get involved. It'd be his style. I really can't figure
out the owners infatuation with duB, I'd rather see Uberoff (sp?) back
as commish.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5f42757d-7280-452e-8aed-cbb4e0815fb8@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 31, 9:57 am, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Triple" <rhag... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:OY30k.1972$ZE5.1337@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "JSM75" <JS... DeleteThis @verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
>> >news:yy20k.535$qP.474@trnddc03...
>> >>http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-bats052908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
>>
>> >> and do the right thing?
>>
>> >> I have been in the line of a flying bat head and they are not easy to
>> >> avoid.
>> >> Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the
>> >> medical
>> >> bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is
>> >> no
>> >> reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover
>> >> this
>> >> ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>>
>> > I am a true blue Dodger fan...the Dodgers should step up. Yes, it will
>> > be
>> > a precedent. A precedent of a corporation actually caring about its
>> > customers because they are fellow human beings. How often can this
>> > happen
>> > a year? Lets say each team incurs 20K in costs a year. That isn't going
>> > to
>> > break them.
>>
>> > You word the 'gift' made to these fans as a good will gesture or
>> > charitable or anything else. Lawyers are smart, they could figure out a
>> > way to do it that didn't set them up for something huge from a greedy
>> > ass.
>>
>> Corporations can be called many things, but one thing they are is
>> practical.
>> A corporation that survives primariliy on the basis of its relationship
>> with
>> the community would be stupid to not defuse a situation like this. I
>> don't
>> think precedent is an issue.( And what the hell's so terrible about the
>> precedent that if you get hurt at the game through no act of negligence
>> on
>> your part, we'll help you out with the medical bills?) As I said, good
>> corporations are, at bottom, practical.. stupid ones go broke, and
>> should.
>>
>> S.
>
> I wonder if selig got involved and told the mccourt and the rest of
> the FO not to get involved. It'd be his style. I really can't figure
> out the owners infatuation with duB, I'd rather see Uberoff (sp?) back
> as commish.

How about Judge Landis? Does anyone know any resurrectionists that can bring
him back?
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

On May 31, 11:47 am, "Triple" <rhag....DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Sam Hutcheson" <s....DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:c45e1a9e-4ad4-41cd-81bd-2dbae1fb48ec@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
> > > bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
> > > reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
> > > ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>
> > precedent.
>
> <<A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
> down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
> died.  Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills?  Of course not.
>
> There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
> your eyes out for foul balls and bats.  It's sad that someone got
> hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
> league is financially responsible for every one who does.>>
>
> You are equating a fellow that did something completely and utterly stupid,
> getting drunk several stories about the ground when he knew he'd be
> navigating steep stairs, and a woman sitting in her seat watching the game?
> Not, even close.
>
> Yes, the team is responsible, the way all human beings are responsible for
> each other. A simple gesture of good-will to foot the few thousand dollars
> of medical expenses is not only human but will save them tons of money in
> the long run.
>
> Example: We all know the famous McDonald's coffee spilling case.

I do, and it's completely and utterly irrelevant. If you've ever been
to a baseball game you will have heard via the PA system and seen via
the video boards, messages explicitly warning you that batted balls
and occasionally bats may enter the stands. Most teams have a similar
disclaimer printed on their tickets. When you enter the stadium you
assume the very slight risk of being hit and injured by a foul ball, a
bat that slips loose or, occasionally, Derek Jeter. It is an assumed
risk and is stated explicitly so in the purchase agreement for the
ticket. There is no lawsuit available.

Which leaves your entire argument hanging on the very thin thread of
responsibility "the way all human beings are responsible for each
other." Maybe the Dogs will feel compassion or see a PR opportunity
in the community and chip in with the bills. Maybe they'll say "no,
that's setting precedent that we're responsible for these things,
which we clearly are not." I'd guess they'll lean toward the latter
but you never know. What we do know is that if you or anyone else
tried to bring suit against the franchise or league on your we're-all-
responsible-for-each-other kumbaya story you'd be laughed out of court
in seconds.

s/
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

On May 31, 11:56 am, Tarkus <karnev....RemoveThis@atlantabraves.net> wrote:
> Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> > On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the medical
> >>> bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is no
> >>> reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover this
> >>> ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
> >> precedent.
>
> > A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
> > down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
> > died.  Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills?  Of course not.
>
> As I recall, there's no question he had been drinking.  The only
> question was whether or not he was intoxicated (though logic would
> suggest he probably was).  I don't think that's analogous to this
> situation, in any case, since that guy did it to himself.

Fan injured in stadium. Team not responsible. There's your analogy.

> > There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
> > your eyes out for foul balls and bats.  It's sad that someone got
> > hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
> > league is financially responsible for every one who does.
>
> Of course, disclaimers don't abdicate responsibility, legally or
> morally.  And if she was indeed following the ball into the outfield,
> you can hardly blame her for not seeing a broken bat coming her way.

What do you think the purpose of those disclaimers are then? Avant
spoken word poetry? Of course the relieve legal responsibility.
Which is the only question. There's no moral responsibility to be
debated as there was no moral agency in the injury, no moral fault.
That's what makes it an accident.

s/
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Polarhound" <yhf9832283483y RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c8WdnegzR-l9qdzVnZ2dnUVZ_hzinZ2d@comcast.com...
> JSM75 wrote:
>
>> The team is not opening themselves to lawsuits unless they don't act. If
>> a team acts and pays such medical bills then it is highly unlikely a law
>> suit would go anywhere. The woman is just asking for help with her
>> medical bills.
>
> Funny, every year these types of lawsuits get filed by ambulance chasers
> looking for a quick buck, yet they constantly get dismissed. So much for
> your "theory"!
>
>> The fact is that the Dodgers should show respect to those who show up at
>> their games and get hurt by happen stance. This happens rarely enough
>> that it would not make a dent in the pocketbooks of professional sports
>> teams.
>
> The fact is that life is inherently dangerous, and people sitting within
> reach of fast-moving objects capable of flying off at random angles need
> to either accept the risk, or leave the area entirely.

No doubt her lawyers are trying to figure out if the "warning disclaimer"
outweighs the "MLB knows maple bats break badly and should have known
something like this would happen" to see if filing is warranted.

If I were the Dodgers, I'd offer to help *somehow*. Doing nothing is just
poor. What will really look bad for LA is if they do nothing and Todd
Helton steps up to help her.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Jeremy Chapman" <jchapman3 DeleteThis @triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4841755d$0$20197$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Polarhound" <yhf9832283483y DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:c8WdnegzR-l9qdzVnZ2dnUVZ_hzinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> JSM75 wrote:
>>
>>> The team is not opening themselves to lawsuits unless they don't act. If
>>> a team acts and pays such medical bills then it is highly unlikely a law
>>> suit would go anywhere. The woman is just asking for help with her
>>> medical bills.
>>
>> Funny, every year these types of lawsuits get filed by ambulance chasers
>> looking for a quick buck, yet they constantly get dismissed. So much
>> for your "theory"!
>>
>>> The fact is that the Dodgers should show respect to those who show up at
>>> their games and get hurt by happen stance. This happens rarely enough
>>> that it would not make a dent in the pocketbooks of professional sports
>>> teams.
>>
>> The fact is that life is inherently dangerous, and people sitting within
>> reach of fast-moving objects capable of flying off at random angles need
>> to either accept the risk, or leave the area entirely.
>
> No doubt her lawyers are trying to figure out if the "warning disclaimer"
> outweighs the "MLB knows maple bats break badly and should have known
> something like this would happen" to see if filing is warranted.
>
> If I were the Dodgers, I'd offer to help *somehow*. Doing nothing is just
> poor. What will really look bad for LA is if they do nothing and Todd
> Helton steps up to help her.

IMO, he should too and is likely more responsible, IF he knew that type of
bat shatters in such a dangerous way. Have we all forgotten Steve Yeager? If
I were Helton and choose that type of bat, I'd feel bad enough to help.

I was watching a game and a Red by the name of Freel dove into the stands
and took out a little old lady. He hit her hard! He checked on her every
time the teams moved from offense to defense and brought her all sorts of
stuff. After a few innings, she had to leave. I will make you a gentleman's
bet that she didn't sue.

All it takes is for us to treat people with courtesy, respect and caring.
This isn't all that complicated.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Sam Hutcheson" <samh.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7903edd8-a539-4d35-a056-28271e5ffef9@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 31, 11:47 am, "Triple" <rhag....RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Sam Hutcheson" <s....RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:c45e1a9e-4ad4-41cd-81bd-2dbae1fb48ec@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 10:33 pm, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Worst case scenerio, any team should have the desire to pay the
> > > medical
> > > bills for any such incident. Another example of petty greed. There is
> > > no
> > > reason the Dodgers cannot afford 10 to 20 thousand dollars to cover
> > > this
> > > ladies medical bills, or any other team for that matter.
>
> > precedent.
>
> <<A couple weeks back a guy who may or may not have been drinking fell
> down a few hundred feet of stairs at Turner Stadium (Atlanta) and
> died. Should the Braves or MLB pay his funeral bills? Of course not.
>
> There's a disclaimer at every game and usually on the ticket to keep
> your eyes out for foul balls and bats. It's sad that someone got
> hurt, certainly, but it's bad business to set precedent that the team/
> league is financially responsible for every one who does.>>
>
> You are equating a fellow that did something completely and utterly
> stupid,
> getting drunk several stories about the ground when he knew he'd be
> navigating steep stairs, and a woman sitting in her seat watching the
> game?
> Not, even close.
>
> Yes, the team is responsible, the way all human beings are responsible for
> each other. A simple gesture of good-will to foot the few thousand dollars
> of medical expenses is not only human but will save them tons of money in
> the long run.
>
> Example: We all know the famous McDonald's coffee spilling case.

I do, and it's completely and utterly irrelevant. If you've ever been
to a baseball game you will have heard via the PA system and seen via
the video boards, messages explicitly warning you that batted balls
and occasionally bats may enter the stands. Most teams have a similar
disclaimer printed on their tickets. When you enter the stadium you
assume the very slight risk of being hit and injured by a foul ball, a
bat that slips loose or, occasionally, Derek Jeter. It is an assumed
risk and is stated explicitly so in the purchase agreement for the
ticket. There is no lawsuit available.

Which leaves your entire argument hanging on the very thin thread of
responsibility "the way all human beings are responsible for each
other." Maybe the Dogs will feel compassion or see a PR opportunity
in the community and chip in with the bills. Maybe they'll say "no,
that's setting precedent that we're responsible for these things,
which we clearly are not." I'd guess they'll lean toward the latter
but you never know. What we do know is that if you or anyone else
tried to bring suit against the franchise or league on your we're-all-
responsible-for-each-other kumbaya story you'd be laughed out of court
in seconds.

Triple: I will make the same comment to you as I made to someone else in
this thread. Pardon me for not looking up who. If you feel the same way when
someone totals your car and puts you in the hospital, I will give you credit
for internal consistency. After all, driving is inherently dangerous.

The ticket does not say, "The players will use equipment known to be much
more dangerous than traditionally used in this sport (ie maple bats)" MLB is
making the McDonald's mistake. That sets up a liability.

As far as being laughed out of court. Yes I would be. However, if we took
care of each other, they'd be less court cases. I read an article once where
a some pretty high powered liability attorneys claimed that a large
percentage of law suits could be settled with an apology before the lawyers
get involved. They claimed their own profession caused a great deal of grief
by preventing people from offering simple apologies and minor tokens of
reimbursement through fear of accepting responsibility.

Any potential lawsuit goes away in this case with 7K and a note that says,
"the ticket say this so we are not liable here. However, because we
appreciate you as a fan and we understand that as a single mother...."

If I am on a jury there is no way I'd take this simple act of kindness as an
admission of guilt or responsibility. In fact, I'd wonder why some greedy
bitch brought the suit after such a gesture.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

On May 31, 3:21 pm, "Triple" <rhag... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Triple: I will make the same comment to you as I made to someone else in
> this thread. Pardon me for not looking up who. If you feel the same way when
> someone totals your car and puts you in the hospital, I will give you credit
> for internal consistency. After all, driving is inherently dangerous.

If someone totals my car and is at fault his or her insurance will
cover the damage. If someone totals my car without fault my insurance
will cover the damage, in some combination with his. If she injures
me and is at fault she will be charged accordingly. Without fault,
she will not face charges.

That's the way it works.

> The ticket does not say, "The players will use equipment known to be much
> more dangerous than traditionally used in this sport (ie maple bats)" MLB is
> making the McDonald's mistake. That sets up a liability.

Good luck trying to convince people of that. There were no guarantee
for ash bats. There is no guarantee for maple bats. It isn't the
player's, the team's or the franchises fault despite your
protestations otherwise.

With that said, do you work for an ash bat company or something? You
seem unduly invested in this crusade.

> As far as being laughed out of court. Yes I would be. However, if we took
> care of each other, they'd be less court cases. I read an article once where

If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass every time it hopped,
but a frog does not have wings.

s/
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

Mike De Leon wrote:
> I wonder if selig got involved and told the mccourt and the rest of
> the FO not to get involved. It'd be his style. I really can't figure
> out the owners infatuation with duB, I'd rather see Uberoff (sp?) back
> as commish.

Mr. Collusion? I don't think so. Certainly there are better candidates.

--
Now Playing: King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man

Fans of Braves and Music: http://www.last.fm/group/Atlanta%2BBraves
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up...