Escobar?

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:34:38 -0500, Dale Hicks
<dgh1138 RemoveThis @southernbell.com> wrote:

>In article <-NednREVSv6PuYjVnZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d RemoveThis @earthlink.com>,
>karnevil9@atlantabraves.net says...
>> who'sthat wrote:
>> > Do an average of pitchers from the 60s and an average of the pitchers
>> > from the 90s and you'll find a huge drop off in AVERAGE # of inning
>> > pitched and a huge increase in the # of injuries.
>>
>> Since it's your theory, why don't you? Colin didn't start this thread;
>> you did. Nor did he nor anyone else proclaim to be right, uncontested.
>
>Here's a sneak peek from comment #43 here:
>http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/hall_of_merit/discussion/vi
>c_willis/
>
>Average IP by top four starters from every team:
>
>1911-20 252.3 ip
>1921-25 228.7 ip
>1926-30 218 ip
>1931-40 218 ip
>1941-50 206 ip
>1951-60 (+1961 NL) 201 ip
>1961-70 211 ip
>
>I just punched in the average IP of the top 120 starters from last
>season (almost equivalent to what he's doing) and found out they
>averaged 178.8 IP last year.
>
>Which isn't that huge of a drop when you consider that they went to
>five man rotations (and should have lost 20% (40) of their innings).
>
>That's _averaging_ 6.18 IP per start.
>
>Now the thread's finished.

Proving my point. It need to be averaged and not taken case by case.
And I got the idea from my father who was one of the best coming out
of New England in the 50s. He never made it because he wanted to fight
in Korea. It was he who started saying this 30 years ago.

Thanks
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who'sthat wrote:
> I'm saying Williams would have AVERAGED over 400 today.

Heh. Thanks for the laugh.

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who'sthat wrote:
> Nope. I have all the evidence I need.
> Nah..you won't prove me wrong. You've tried and not succeeded.

Is English your first language (seriously)?

You've produced no evidence, nor have I tried to "prove" you wrong.
I've only expressed an opposing opinion.

The fact that I said there is no right or wrong should tell everyone
that I've not tried to "prove" anything. We simply have differing opinions.

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On 28 Apr, 02:10, Tarkus <karnev....TakeThisOut@atlantabraves.net> wrote:
> who'sthat wrote:
> > Do an average of pitchers from the 60s and an average of the pitchers
> > from the 90s and you'll find a huge drop off in AVERAGE # of inning
> > pitched and a huge increase in the # of injuries.
>
> Since it's your theory, why don't you?  Colin didn't start this thread;
> you did.  Nor did he nor anyone else proclaim to be right, uncontested.
>
> > And as I said I'm already convinced I'm right and I'm not a numbers
> > geek who will spend any time figuring it out. It's just simple for me
> > to see.
>
> > End of thread.
>
> > p.s. This is where you claim you won, right?
>
> No, this is where I claim you're arrogant and close-minded.

Come on, Terry. You and Colin both should have smelled this out as
the troll that it was long, long ago.

s/
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Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> On 28 Apr, 02:10, Tarkus <karnev... RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote:
>> who'sthat wrote:
>>> Do an average of pitchers from the 60s and an average of the pitchers
>>> from the 90s and you'll find a huge drop off in AVERAGE # of inning
>>> pitched and a huge increase in the # of injuries.
>> Since it's your theory, why don't you? Colin didn't start this thread;
>> you did. Nor did he nor anyone else proclaim to be right, uncontested.
>>
>>> And as I said I'm already convinced I'm right and I'm not a numbers
>>> geek who will spend any time figuring it out. It's just simple for me
>>> to see.
>>> End of thread.
>>> p.s. This is where you claim you won, right?
>> No, this is where I claim you're arrogant and close-minded.
>
> Come on, Terry. You and Colin both should have smelled this out as
> the troll that it was long, long ago.

If he's a troll, he's a good one. I may be naive, but I still think
he's serious about his opinions (that he confuses as facts).

Even if he is a troll, it's a fairly interesting topic, worth debating,
so no real harm done. <shrug>

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On Apr 28, 4:45 pm, Colin William <colintwill....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> > Come on, Terry.  You and Colin both should have smelled this out as
> > the troll that it was long, long ago.
>
> As I've pointed out before, sometimes I respond not to feed the trolls,
> but because I think the discussion is worthwhile for others in the
> group. whosthat is clearly a closed-minded nonthinker; however, Dale,
> Terry and TCol are also in this thread.
>
> The troll is saying things that echo (up to a point) sentiments of many
> older fans and baseball pundits. So yeah, the points come from a troll,
> but the discussion is still an interesting one to visit among those who
> are not trolls.

All fair play. I just have a filter for these "why can't men be men
like men used to be when men were real men" threads.

s/
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Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> Come on, Terry. You and Colin both should have smelled this out as
> the troll that it was long, long ago.

As I've pointed out before, sometimes I respond not to feed the trolls,
but because I think the discussion is worthwhile for others in the
group. whosthat is clearly a closed-minded nonthinker; however, Dale,
Terry and TCol are also in this thread.

The troll is saying things that echo (up to a point) sentiments of many
older fans and baseball pundits. So yeah, the points come from a troll,
but the discussion is still an interesting one to visit among those who
are not trolls.

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Escobar? 

Sam Hutcheson wrote:
> I just have a filter for these "why can't men be men
> like men used to be when men were real men" threads.

Not a bad idea. That IS a pet peeve of mine, and perhaps why I got
suckered into this particular thread.

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 >> Stay informed about: Escobar? 

In article <6reb14ppt9sjok3t2bad6kc39puees19jq DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
who'sthat <whosthat> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:59:42 -0700, Tarkus
> <karnevil9 DeleteThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote:
>
> >who'sthat wrote:
> >> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:53:02 -0700, Tarkus
> >> <karnevil9 DeleteThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> tcol DeleteThis @toast.net wrote:
> >>>> 1. This whole thread in my mind raises the question not only of
> >>>> pitchers
> >>>> but all players with respect to limitations and injuries. Now, I go
> >>>> back a
> >>>> few decades and in my youthful heyday I followed baseball, at least the
> >>>> 3
> >>>> NY teams, rather religiously and intensely especially from the period
> >>>> 1945
> >>>> - 1956 when I left on a military career.
> >>>>
> >>>> Back then I cannot recall reading of debilitating injuries such as torn
> >>>> rotator cups, ham strings, groin injuries etc. Further, pitchers
> >>>> routinely
> >>>> went 9 innings unless "knocked out of the box". heck, recall Dodger's
> >>>> Don
> >>>> Newcomb pitched a double header in the Polo grounds, although he lasted
> >>>> only about mid-way of game #2. Such known hurlers back then like Vic
> >>>> Rashii, Larry Jansen, Sal Maglie, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and many
> >>>> more
> >>>> never seemed to make the DL or its equivalent in those days.
> >>>>
> >>>> What makes it perplexing to me is now-a-days body conditioning, diet,
> >>>> sports medicine, etc. is so far advanced over the era I recall, that one
> >>>> would think there would be less DL injuries.
> >>> I believe that's already been addressed more than once, by more than one
> >>> person.
> >>>
> >>> Let me ask you this: Do you think Cy Young would have as many victories
> >>> today, even if he was allowed to pitch on the same exact schedule, with
> >>> the same number of innings?
> >>>
> >>> If so, I'd love to have some of what you're smoking.
> >>
> >> HAHAHHA he did it WHILE he was smoking. And most were also drinking!!
> >> And traveling by train and not being babied in private jets as many
> >> are today.
> >>> It's a different game today. That's the main reason why pitchers pitch
> >>> fewer innings, not because they're somehow less manly or weak or
> >>> something.
> >>
> >> Nope..you're still wrong.
> >
> >There is no right and wrong, because neither of us has proven anything
> >beyond out own person opinions.
> >
> >Are YOU suggesting Cy Young would have the same stats today under
> >similar circumstances to what he pitched under during his era?
>
> I'm saying Williams would have AVERAGED over 400 today.

He's dead, Jim.

dick
-- But who dat won't find that out because he's got me killfiled.
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Dick Sidbury wrote:
> In article <6reb14ppt9sjok3t2bad6kc39puees19jq RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
> who'sthat <whosthat> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:59:42 -0700, Tarkus
>> <karnevil9 RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote:
>>
>>> who'sthat wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:53:02 -0700, Tarkus
>>>> <karnevil9 RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> tcol RemoveThis @toast.net wrote:
>>>>>> 1. This whole thread in my mind raises the question not only of
>>>>>> pitchers
>>>>>> but all players with respect to limitations and injuries. Now, I go
>>>>>> back a
>>>>>> few decades and in my youthful heyday I followed baseball, at least the
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>> NY teams, rather religiously and intensely especially from the period
>>>>>> 1945
>>>>>> - 1956 when I left on a military career.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back then I cannot recall reading of debilitating injuries such as torn
>>>>>> rotator cups, ham strings, groin injuries etc. Further, pitchers
>>>>>> routinely
>>>>>> went 9 innings unless "knocked out of the box". heck, recall Dodger's
>>>>>> Don
>>>>>> Newcomb pitched a double header in the Polo grounds, although he lasted
>>>>>> only about mid-way of game #2. Such known hurlers back then like Vic
>>>>>> Rashii, Larry Jansen, Sal Maglie, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and many
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> never seemed to make the DL or its equivalent in those days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes it perplexing to me is now-a-days body conditioning, diet,
>>>>>> sports medicine, etc. is so far advanced over the era I recall, that one
>>>>>> would think there would be less DL injuries.
>>>>> I believe that's already been addressed more than once, by more than one
>>>>> person.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me ask you this: Do you think Cy Young would have as many victories
>>>>> today, even if he was allowed to pitch on the same exact schedule, with
>>>>> the same number of innings?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, I'd love to have some of what you're smoking.
>>>> HAHAHHA he did it WHILE he was smoking. And most were also drinking!!
>>>> And traveling by train and not being babied in private jets as many
>>>> are today.
>>>>> It's a different game today. That's the main reason why pitchers pitch
>>>>> fewer innings, not because they're somehow less manly or weak or
>>>>> something.
>>>> Nope..you're still wrong.
>>> There is no right and wrong, because neither of us has proven anything
>>> beyond out own person opinions.
>>>
>>> Are YOU suggesting Cy Young would have the same stats today under
>>> similar circumstances to what he pitched under during his era?
>> I'm saying Williams would have AVERAGED over 400 today.
>
> He's dead, Jim.
>
> dick
> -- But who dat won't find that out because he's got me killfiled.

Now he will.

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Lance Freezeland wrote:
> And a guy like Tommy John who blew out his elbow at age 29 and was
> never heard from again.

Why didn't he have Tommy John surgery?

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tom dunne wrote:
> Lance, you ignorant slut...

I still think Jane Curtain is hotter.

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On Apr 28, 9:57 pm, who'sthat <whosthat> wrote:

> >Come on, Terry.  You and Colin both should have smelled this out as
> >the troll that it was long, long ago.
>
> >s/
>
> What makes it a troll? Because I've already made up my mind?

And because you're desparately trying to extend this thread as long as
possible. Classic trolling. Say stupid inflammatory things for the
explicit purpose of drawing out as flamed a response as possible and
then extend it as long as possible. It's pretty much the troll's
FAQ. The fact that you're really Alex pretty much seals the deal.

s/
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