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External
Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 200
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:21 pm
Post subject: Questions
Archived from groups: rec>sport>baseball (more info?)
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Some basic questions:
(1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases loaded
walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
(2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail the
runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to go
to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call to
me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
off or not ?
Or is it that when the game is in its early innings, they do not care about
the extra run, but they just want to prevent another hitter (the guy who had
the hit) ending up in scoring position? Even then, I am not sure if its a
better strategy to cut off the throw.
No play-announcer has explained this properly, can someone who has played a
lot, throw some light on this.
Thanks,
--Sriram |
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External
Since: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 744
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:21:38 -0700, "Sriram"
<sriram_net.DeleteThis@nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Some basic questions:
>
>(1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases loaded
>walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
Correct. An rbi is credited on the walk, but there is no one to
credit one to on a wild pitch or passed ball. Also, no rbi is
credited on a double play, if a run scores.
>
>(2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
>outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail the
>runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to go
>to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
>runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call to
>me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
>to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
>off or not ?
>
>Or is it that when the game is in its early innings, they do not care about
>the extra run, but they just want to prevent another hitter (the guy who had
>the hit) ending up in scoring position? Even then, I am not sure if its a
>better strategy to cut off the throw.
They cut off the ball if they don't think it will get the runner.
It's a split second decision, based on experience, and they don't
always make the right decision. There can be times also when the
batter represents the tying run that it can be more important to
prevent him from getting into scoring position - that's during the
final inning though. |
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 332
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <408f314d$1@news.microsoft.com>,
"Sriram" <sriram_net.TakeThisOut@nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Some basic questions:
>
>(1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases loaded
>walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
Correct on both points.
>(2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
>outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail the
>runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to go
>to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
>runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call to
>me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
>to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
>off or not ?
It's simply a judgment call as to how likely they think they are to get the
runner at home and how likely they think they are to get the hitter
advancing to second or third. No magic formula.
>Or is it that when the game is in its early innings, they do not care about
>the extra run, but they just want to prevent another hitter (the guy who had
>the hit) ending up in scoring position? Even then, I am not sure if its a
>better strategy to cut off the throw.
It's not that they "don't care," but they are more willing to allow the run
if they can get the batter out and prevent a big inning.
They don't have the same angle of view that you do; they're just making a
different judgment than you are as to how likely they are to get the runner
at home.
---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent nieporen.TakeThisOut@alumni.princeton.edu >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Oct 03, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:50 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Sriram" <sriram_net DeleteThis @nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:408f314d$1@news.microsoft.com...
> Some basic questions:
>
> (1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases
loaded
> walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
Yes and yes -- yes on the walk, no RBI for the WP/PB.
> (2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
> outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail
the
> runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to
go
> to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
> runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call
to
> me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
> to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
> off or not ?
>
> Or is it that when the game is in its early innings, they do not care
about
> the extra run, but they just want to prevent another hitter (the guy who
had
> the hit) ending up in scoring position? Even then, I am not sure if its a
> better strategy to cut off the throw.
>
> No play-announcer has explained this properly, can someone who has played
a
> lot, throw some light on this.
The ball is cut off when either (a) they can't prevent the runner from
scoring, or (b) they don't think he's going to try to score. Either way, the
reason for the cutoff is to prevent the hitter/runner from advancing another
base (usually to second). As for when the decision is made, presumably on
the fly, and based on endless training drills and simulations.
Mark >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 417
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:59 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Sriram" <sriram_net RemoveThis @nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:408f314d$1@news.microsoft.com...
> Some basic questions:
>
> (1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases
loaded
> walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
Correct.
> (2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
> outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail
the
> runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to
go
> to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
> runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call
to
> me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
> to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
> off or not ?
The catcher decides. If you cut the throw off, you can limit the damage the
other runners could cause otherwise by taking extra bases on a play at the
plate. >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 612
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <aTGjc.47981$635.29674@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>, Ryan Robbins
<redbird007.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Sriram" <sriram_net.TakeThisOut@nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:408f314d$1@news.microsoft.com...
> > Some basic questions:
> >
> > (1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases
> loaded
> > walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball, right?
>
> Correct.
>
> > (2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
> > outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail
> the
> > runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to
> go
> > to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
> > runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call
> to
> > me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a play
> > to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
> > off or not ?
>
> The catcher decides. If you cut the throw off, you can limit the damage the
> other runners could cause otherwise by taking extra bases on a play at the
> plate.
This is the key point.
The Catcher makes the call.
The cutoff man simply responds to the Catcher.
If he thinks there will not be a play at home, but might be at second,
the Catcher yells, "CUT TWO! CUT TWO!" Or "CUT THREE" for a throw to
third.
It is important for the outfielder to throw with a trajectory that CAN
be snagged by the cutoff man on the infield. To do otherwise is to
"overthrow the cutoff man" >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 200
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steve Cutchen" <maxfaq DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:280420040013053862%maxfaq@earthlink.net...
> In article <aTGjc.47981$635.29674@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>, Ryan Robbins
> <redbird007 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > "Sriram" <sriram_net DeleteThis @nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:408f314d$1@news.microsoft.com...
> > > Some basic questions:
> > >
> > > (1) Is the hitter credited with the RBI when a pitcher gives a bases
> > loaded
> > > walk ? I think "yes". But not for a wild pitch or a passed ball,
right?
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> > > (2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to
the
> > > outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to
nail
> > the
> > > runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries
to
> > go
> > > to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that
the
> > > runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close
call
> > to
> > > me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a
play
> > > to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to
cut
> > > off or not ?
> >
> > The catcher decides. If you cut the throw off, you can limit the damage
the
> > other runners could cause otherwise by taking extra bases on a play at
the
> > plate.
>
> This is the key point.
>
> The Catcher makes the call.
>
> The cutoff man simply responds to the Catcher.
>
> If he thinks there will not be a play at home, but might be at second,
> the Catcher yells, "CUT TWO! CUT TWO!" Or "CUT THREE" for a throw to
> third.
>
> It is important for the outfielder to throw with a trajectory that CAN
> be snagged by the cutoff man on the infield. To do otherwise is to
> "overthrow the cutoff man"
Cool - that makes a lot of sense for the catcher to make that call. Thanks
for everyone who responded.
--
Sriram >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 62
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:41 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ima Pseudonym <akrasian RemoveThis @nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<70eu80l86qq5ie9i3f7ujcjns1948cabhm RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
Also, no rbi is
> credited on a double play, if a run scores.
Nitpicking is what gives my life meaning, so here goes...
It is not always true that no RBI is credited on a double play. Rule
10.4(b) reads "Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds
into a force double play or a reverse force double play." Most double
plays are going to be either force or reverse force, so the
generalization that no RBI is credited for a double play is a decent
first approximation: but only decent.
Richard R. Hershberger >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 744
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Apr 2004 06:41:39 -0700, rrhersh DeleteThis @acme.com (Richard R.
Hershberger) wrote:
>Ima Pseudonym <akrasian DeleteThis @nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<70eu80l86qq5ie9i3f7ujcjns1948cabhm DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
>
>Also, no rbi is
>> credited on a double play, if a run scores.
>
>Nitpicking is what gives my life meaning, so here goes...
>
>It is not always true that no RBI is credited on a double play. Rule
>10.4(b) reads "Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds
>into a force double play or a reverse force double play." Most double
>plays are going to be either force or reverse force, so the
>generalization that no RBI is credited for a double play is a decent
>first approximation: but only decent.
True. If the batter hits a sac fly that, say, a runner gets thrown
out on going from 2nd to 3rd, but the run scores, there is an rbi on
that. >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Oct 03, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Terrell Miller" <millerto RemoveThis @bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:eNMjc.60582$Yw5.30918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> > Yes and yes -- yes on the walk, no RBI for the WP/PB.
>
> ...unless the WP/PB was also ball four, in that case I'd imagine the
batter
> would still get an RBI for the runner on third
Right, because in that case it's just a walk -- no WP/PB at all.
Mark >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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Since: Aug 08, 2005
Posts: 590
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <PvSjc.33309$eK3.22558@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>, myspamhole2002
@yahoo.com says...
> "Terrell Miller" <millerto DeleteThis @bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:eNMjc.60582$Yw5.30918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> > > Yes and yes -- yes on the walk, no RBI for the WP/PB.
> >
> > ...unless the WP/PB was also ball four, in that case I'd imagine the
> batter
> > would still get an RBI for the runner on third
>
> Right, because in that case it's just a walk -- no WP/PB at all.
>
> Mark
It can still be a WP/PB. The runners on 1st and 2nd, and the batter
run, can run at their own risk past the bases they are entitled to. The
the runner on 2nd wants to try and score, he can. If he does, no RBI. >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 208
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 4:36 am
Post subject: Re: Questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Ima Pseudonym" <akrasian DeleteThis @nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:70eu80l86qq5ie9i3f7ujcjns1948cabhm@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:21:38 -0700, "Sriram"
> <sriram_net DeleteThis @nospamplease.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >(2) With runner in 2nd and < 2 outs, when the hitter hits the ball to the
> >outfield - the outfielder throws the ball back to the home plate to nail
the
> >runner - but many times the cut off man catch it (and if hitter tries to
go
> >to 2nd or 3rd, try to target them) - so are they very confident that the
> >runner cannot be nailed at home? Sometimes it does look a very close call
to
> >me - and I feel like the cut off man should have given a chance for a
play
> >to happen at home plate. So how do they make this decision whether to cut
> >off or not ?
> >
> >Or is it that when the game is in its early innings, they do not care
about
> >the extra run, but they just want to prevent another hitter (the guy who
had
> >the hit) ending up in scoring position? Even then, I am not sure if its a
> >better strategy to cut off the throw.
>
> They cut off the ball if they don't think it will get the runner.
> It's a split second decision, based on experience, and they don't
> always make the right decision.
One year in his "Baseball Abstract", Bill James complained that KC 1st
baseman
Willie Aikens (a slugger not known for his fielding) *always* cut off the
throw -
"someone should explain to him this is an option." Later that year, I read
an account of a game between KC and Oakland that said "the winning run
scored when Willie Aikens inexplicably cut off a throw from the outfield
that
would have nailed him at the plate" - proving that James is not only a
"stathead" but a keen observer of the game.
- Gary Rosen >> Stay informed about: Questions |
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