why no bronson?

David Short wrote:
> I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
> Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
> He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the third.

Three walks, six hits and six earned runs in just two innings would be
my guess. Just no command.
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

"tom dunne" <NOSPAMdunnetg.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote
> David Short wrote:
>> I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>> Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>> He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the
>> third.
>
> Three walks, six hits and six earned runs in just two innings would be my
> guess. Just no command.

Why send him to the plate with a runner on base?

oh. Yeah. 3 catchers.

dfs
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

he threw over 50 pitches in the first inning.
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Mon, 21 May 2007 21:42:59 -0400, "David Short"
<David.NO.Short RemoveThis @Wright.SPAM.Edu.PLEASE> wrote:

>"tom dunne" <NOSPAMdunnetg RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote
>> David Short wrote:
>>> I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>>> Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>>> He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the
>>> third.
>>
>> Three walks, six hits and six earned runs in just two innings would be my
>> guess. Just no command.
>
>Why send him to the plate with a runner on base?
>
>oh. Yeah. 3 catchers.

Well, that early and with Babe Arroyo up, I don't actually see that much
of a problem letting him hit even if you're going to pull him.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

tom dunne <NOSPAMdunnetg.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5bevpaF2sp3rvU1@mid.individual.net:

> David Short wrote:
>> I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>> Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>> He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the
>> third.
>
> Three walks, six hits and six earned runs in just two innings would be
> my guess. Just no command.

It seems kind of ironic that there's been four times this season when
Arroyo's given up 2 ERs or less and gotten either a no decision or a loss,
yet tonight Arroyo gives up 6 ERs in 2 innings and the Reds manage to find
a way to pull off a win.

-TG
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Tue, 22 May 2007 00:29:44 -0500, Tuff Gong <no.spam.TakeThisOut@mymail.com> wrote:

>tom dunne <NOSPAMdunnetg.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:5bevpaF2sp3rvU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>> David Short wrote:
>>> I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>>> Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>>> He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the
>>> third.
>>
>> Three walks, six hits and six earned runs in just two innings would be
>> my guess. Just no command.
>
>It seems kind of ironic that there's been four times this season when
>Arroyo's given up 2 ERs or less and gotten either a no decision or a loss,
>yet tonight Arroyo gives up 6 ERs in 2 innings and the Reds manage to find
>a way to pull off a win.

Which is precisely why pitcher W-L records are a dumb way to gauge a
pitcher's worth.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:07:56 -0400, "David Short"
<David.NO.Short.RemoveThis@Wright.SPAM.Edu.PLEASE> wrote:

>I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the third.

This is my first chance to "see" the games on TV, as I get Nats local
broadcasts.

The announcers (Don Sutton) didn't make any announcements other than
to question why he batted if it was known he was coming out. Santos
didn't get any extra tosses, so it couldn't have been an injury during
warmup.
To me, he shouldn't have made it thru the first. It was clear he had
nothing.

Maybe just something for the Narron Report.

The stupid decision there was to let him go 130 pitches last time out.
Doesn't take a genius to know what the results of a pitchers next
start will usually be in that circumstance.

He barely topped out at 88mph, and his breaking balls looked like
frisbees. The one Kearns hit looked like it was on a tee.
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:21:36 GMT, tom.DeleteThis@nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:07:56 -0400, "David Short"
><David.NO.Short.DeleteThis@Wright.SPAM.Edu.PLEASE> wrote:
>
>>I'm doin stuff with the sound off.
>>Why did Arroyo come out of the game?
>>He hit during the 2nd inning and isn't pitching during the top of the third.
>
>This is my first chance to "see" the games on TV, as I get Nats local
>broadcasts.
>
>The announcers (Don Sutton) didn't make any announcements other than
>to question why he batted if it was known he was coming out. Santos
>didn't get any extra tosses, so it couldn't have been an injury during
>warmup.

I think it is a good guess that he batted because Narron thinks he's a
good hitting pitcher and he didn't want to use a position player to pinch
hit that early in the game. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

>The stupid decision there was to let him go 130 pitches last time out.
>Doesn't take a genius to know what the results of a pitchers next
>start will usually be in that circumstance.

Just like clockwork.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Tue, 22 May 2007 07:29:20 -0400, Kevin McClave
<kmcclaveSPAM.RemoveThis@SUCKStwcny.rr.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:21:36 GMT, tom.RemoveThis@nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:
>
>
>I think it is a good guess that he batted because Narron thinks he's a
>good hitting pitcher and he didn't want to use a position player to pinch
>hit that early in the game. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Arroyo is a good hitting pitcher in the same sense Javy is a good
pinch hitter. They both run into a few HRs that gave the illusion
that they are good at it.

BA lucked into 2 gifts from Glendan Rush last year, but otherwise, I
think he's about an 090 hitter, and I think they flashed .087 on the
screen last night before the walk.

Ross had just singled to extend the inning after we scored multiple
runs earlier. Why let the rookie off the hook by allowing BA to hit
if you know he isn't coming back? Beside, injuries happen in all
kinds of ways, and why risk BA with an extra AB?
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:23:27 GMT, tom DeleteThis @nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:

>On Tue, 22 May 2007 07:29:20 -0400, Kevin McClave
><kmcclaveSPAM DeleteThis @SUCKStwcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:21:36 GMT, tom DeleteThis @nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:
>>
>>
>>I think it is a good guess that he batted because Narron thinks he's a
>>good hitting pitcher and he didn't want to use a position player to pinch
>>hit that early in the game. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
>
>Arroyo is a good hitting pitcher in the same sense Javy is a good
>pinch hitter. They both run into a few HRs that gave the illusion
>that they are good at it.
>
>BA lucked into 2 gifts from Glendan Rush last year, but otherwise, I
>think he's about an 090 hitter, and I think they flashed .087 on the
>screen last night before the walk.

That's why I specifically wrote "Narron thinks..."

Even if he isn't a good hitting pitcher, unless you send Santos up there
to pinch hit for him, I don't have that big a problem with this
particular decision.

>Ross had just singled to extend the inning after we scored multiple
>runs earlier. Why let the rookie off the hook by allowing BA to hit
>if you know he isn't coming back? Beside, injuries happen in all
>kinds of ways, and why risk BA with an extra AB?

Good counter points.

*********************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"I believe a place and a people are judged
not just by their accomplishments, but also
by their compassion and sense of justice."
~Bruce Springsteen
*********************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

Just found this blurb from Trent's sidekick Josh:

<SNIP>

"POSTGAME: Narron said he took out Arroyo because he was worried about
his pitch count. He threw 129 against LA a few days back, and after
Arroyo got to 62 after two inning, it was clear he wasn't going deep
in the ballgame. So, Narron pulled him. It was curious that Arroyo
batted in the second inning, but Narron said he knew Santos was coming
in before that and he elected to have Arroyo hit in that spot instead
of Santos. I guess you could make the claim that Narron didn't want to
burn a pinch-hitter that early, and who knows if Hamilton was really
available. Kind of weird for Arroyo to bat in that spot, though.

Arroyo said he had good stuff, but that he lost his head in the first
inning and allowed it to snowball on him. Said he felt good
physically. I don't know, though. Something felt a little weird in the
clubhouse tonight. Special K asked Santos when he started warming up,
and he said he had enough time to get ready. But the way he said it
was just a tad strange."

<SNIP>


I hope a trip to Doc Hollywood is not next on the agenda.

I've been hoping to hear for a couple of weeks now that WK had
capitalized on the Yanks desperation and sent them Arroyo for most of
the jewels of their minor league system, but now I fear dumbass Narron
may have instead blew that opportunity by throwing him until his arm
fell off.

Bullpen be damned, BA and AH are the two most important assets we've
got.
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson? 

JustTom wrote:
>
> I hope a trip to Doc Hollywood is not next on the agenda.
>
you know over the off season, I had a number of things I felt the front
office needed to deal with. For the most part, they've done them. Not
always in the way that I would have handled things, but they've
addressed what needed to be addressed. They got a guy to play shortstop.
They built a rotation they were happy about. They got Junior out of
centerfield. They built a bullpen. They got LaRue off the roster (and I
thought they got rid of the three headed catcher monster) They got a
right handed bat.

Now...you can (and no doubt most of you are) argue about the execution
of HOW they did those things. They assemble the bullpen Jerry Narron
wanted. In addition to that they worked the margins of the free talent
pool and acquired Josh Hamilton, Jarred Burton and Bobby Livingston.

After straightening out the usage problems (batting dunn ahead of a
middle infielder; How the guys in the pen are being used) I think the
biggest thing the reds need to straighten out is the medical staff. How
many pitchers can we point to that pitched hurt (Rameriz, Milton,
Wilson, Claussen, Weathers and that's not thinking about it too hard or
over too many years). It's easy to look at Junior and say...he should
have trained harder or that he's snakebit, but at least one of his
injuries was caused because the reds wanted the potential for junior to
pinch hit and be in the lineup to draw crowds. That's dumb. Go a bit
further back. Both Sean Casey and Austin Kearns were dealt by the
franchise for pretty much nothing and in retrospect getting rid of those
salaries looks like a good idea. But it wasn't THAT long ago that both
those guys looked like potential batting champs that possessed decent
power. Both careers were sidetracked by injury and in the end neither
player developed into near the player they were expected to be.
Yes....we can go back to snakebit, but we can also look at the medical
support staff of the reds and go....why was Casey playing with a broken
rib? Who thought that was a good idea?

The reds have a decent base of talent and there are some projectable
guys in the minors. The thing is...if those guys go down the Kearns
path, there is no way the franchise can succeed. Everything Jay Bruce or
Joey Votto are right now..Sean Casey and Austin Kearns were as well.

dfs
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On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:34:32 GMT, tom.RemoveThis@nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:

>Just found this blurb from Trent's sidekick Josh:
>
><SNIP>
>
>"POSTGAME: Narron said he took out Arroyo because he was worried about
>his pitch count. He threw 129 against LA a few days back, and after
>Arroyo got to 62 after two inning, it was clear he wasn't going deep
>in the ballgame. So, Narron pulled him. It was curious that Arroyo
>batted in the second inning, but Narron said he knew Santos was coming
>in before that and he elected to have Arroyo hit in that spot instead
>of Santos. I guess you could make the claim that Narron didn't want to
>burn a pinch-hitter that early, and who knows if Hamilton was really
>available. Kind of weird for Arroyo to bat in that spot, though.

I just really don't think it's that weird under the circumstances.

>Arroyo said he had good stuff, but that he lost his head in the first
>inning and allowed it to snowball on him. Said he felt good
>physically. I don't know, though. Something felt a little weird in the
>clubhouse tonight. Special K asked Santos when he started warming up,
>and he said he had enough time to get ready. But the way he said it
>was just a tad strange."

What are they suggesting? That Bronson was actually hurt?

>I hope a trip to Doc Hollywood is not next on the agenda.
>
>I've been hoping to hear for a couple of weeks now that WK had
>capitalized on the Yanks desperation and sent them Arroyo for most of
>the jewels of their minor league system,

Ya mean like Brandon Claussen and Wily Mo Pena? Those kind of jewels?

>but now I fear dumbass Narron
>may have instead blew that opportunity by throwing him until his arm
>fell off.
>
>Bullpen be damned, BA and AH are the two most important assets we've
>got.

No question.

*********************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"I believe a place and a people are judged
not just by their accomplishments, but also
by their compassion and sense of justice."
~Bruce Springsteen
*********************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: why no bronson?