How bout the Dodgers step up...

"Triple" <rhager4 RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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>
> "Triple" <rhager4 RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:70o0k.133$L_.114@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> "AguaGirl" <someone RemoveThis @somewhere.net> wrote in message
>> news:48420672$0$5107$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> "Triple" <rhager4 RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1V40k.5273$mh5.4442@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Polarhound" <yhf9832283483y RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:89qdnbzPPOKwUd3VnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> Triple wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a true blue Dodger fan...the Dodgers should step up. Yes, it
>>>>>> will be a precedent. A precedent of a corporation actually caring
>>>>>> about its customers because they are fellow human beings. How often
>>>>>> can this happen a year? Lets say each team incurs 20K in costs a
>>>>>> year. That isn't going to break them.
>>>>>
>>>>> MOMMY, MAKE THE BIG BAD MEN PROTECT ME! I SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE IN
>>>>> A BUBBLE WHERE PEOPLE THROW MONEY AT ME EVERY TIME LIFE HAPPENS!
>>>>
>>>> Decent people treat people decently. If I leave a rake out in my yard
>>>> and the mailman steps on it and breaks his nose, I am going to pay the
>>>> doctor bill.
>>>>
>>>> If I see someone get smacked with a rake in someone else's yard, I'll
>>>> drive him to the hospital.
>>>>
>>>> That is what human beings do. We take care of each other. That is how a
>>>> healthy society works. This woman isn't asking to make a fortune yet.
>>>> She is asking to be have medical expenses covered for something that
>>>> happened due to faulty equipment (i.e. these maple bats). That isn't
>>>> unreasonable. Now, if she immediately sued for a million, that would be
>>>> the whiner you are making her out to be.
>>>>
>>>> The lawsuits happen when corporations fail to act like good descent
>>>> citizens.
>>>
>>> Triple, I understand where you are coming from, really I do..but in the
>>> grand scheme of things we all need to take responsibility for ourselves.
>>> The very fact that she would ask for them to pay her for anything says
>>> she "blames" them in some way. If someone comes to visit me at my home
>>> and parks in the street..then has their car broken into to. Should I
>>> feel some sort of responsibility and pay them? And don't go dishing
>>> that maple bat defense. Bats break.
>>
>> Have you listened to the Dodgers' games lately? The broadcasters having
>> been whining about those bats for quit a while. They don't just break
>> like ash bats, they explode with very sharp fragments. There have been
>> two on the field injuries this year from sharp maple bat fragments. When
>> is the last time you heard that?
>>
>> The article even states the MLB and the Players Union is meeting over the
>> problem of the maple bats. They are no different from any other defective
>> product.
>>
>> It could have been a ball coming into the stands too
>>> fast to react too. It could have been a bat that slipped out of
>>> someones hand...heck...
>>
>> Yup and good corporate relations means you look at each case and do what
>> you can. Same with being a good human. I once worked for a political
>> campaign and was really low on money. The guy above me was rich. Always
>> bought my lunch and even paid for a parking ticket that occurred due to
>> the lousy location. Guess what? When I became more self-sufficient, I did
>> that for the next fellow.
>>
>> Isn't that a better way to live that dodging responsibility? Here,
>> someone assumed responsibility that wasn't his at all and did me a good
>> turn that I have passed on to others. Same thing can happen here.
>>
>>
>> it could have been the ice cream vendor that slipped and
>>> landed on her.
>>
>> Well, then he should be executed. I mean what a waste of ice cream.
>>
>>>Life is messy and the result is not always easy to deal with but we do.
>>>I am sorry she got hurt at a game but it's not the Dodgers, the player,
>>>the bat manufacturers or anyone elses responsibility to pay for it..nor
>>>is it their moral obligation.
>>>
>>
>> Okay, like the other fellow. Don't file and insurance claim the next time
>> someone takes out your car.
>
> AG, that sounded snotty but I didn't type it snotty. <grin> Sorry.

I didn't take it as snotty. But it is apples and oranges. I pay for
insurance. If my car gets hit I am only dipping into a pool of money I
helped create for such a situation. Same thing goes for medical insurance,
pension plans and unemployement. If you feel strongly about her getting
some help because it wasn't her fault...why don't you chip in? Start a Help
Joann fund to pay for her expenses. The Dodgers aren't responsible, MLB
isn't responsible and the bat manufacturer isn't responsible. It's just
something that happened. Why is it they should be the one to do the humane
thing and pitch in on her costs? I am serious, if you feel that they should
over and above anyone else...then it's because you think they are in some
way responsible and any payment at all will validate that feeling. Can you
see how that would open the floodgates to every person injured at a game?
Well obviously they knew they were in some way responsible or why would they
have paid that woman's expenses? Yes, they are protecting themselves but
they are also protecting a business that we want to continue to see thrive.
I don't want another 40% added to ticket prices to pay for the slew of
lawyers they have to hire do to accidents involving fans at the games.

I know you want to see the world through rose colored glasses but sadly life
just isn't pretty nor fair and this woman is going to have to accept that.
By the way. I once got in a no fault accident at a corner that had been the
scene of 6 accidents in the past 7 months. Less than 6 months later they
installed a signal. Should I have expected the city to pay for my expenses
because clearly they were at fault for not addressing the danger sooner? I
didn't. That's why they are called ACCIDENTS.

AG
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Triple" <rhager4.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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>
> "Joe" <joe.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
> news:R_B0k.5918$mh5.2165@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> From the LA Times
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shaikin1-2008jun01,0,541607,full.story
>
> That says it all. MLB knows they are dangerous. No disclaimer is going to
> protect a club or a player from getting sued someday. Worse, what happens
> when some pitcher gets killed?
>
> These things need to go.

That may be true...but that doesn't mean they should pay everyone who has
been hit by a maple bat. History teaches us lessons and often casualties
are incurred before those lessons can be learned. If no one was ever hit by
a piece of a bat would we still think they are dangerous just because they
break easier? Doesn't mean the team should be held responsible. Legally,
or morally.

AG
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"Polarhound" <yhf9832283483y RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
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> I see you skimmed over the part where she wants them to cough up despite
> the fact that HER INSURANCE HASN'T EVEN PROCESSED THE CLAIMS YET. Without
> knowing the end result, she is already going after the team, the bat
> manufacturer, and any else she can squeeze a few dollars out of.

The team has a personal obligation to step up and help out. Bottom line.


>
> I can already tell you how this is going to end up: She is going to end
> up with about $400-$600 in total co-pays and deductibles, of which he is
> going to attempt to sue the Dodgers for $4.5-6.5M to recover. Never mind
> the fact that even should her Fantasy Island episode come true, the
> insurance company will be right there to take money from HER to recover
> THEIR costs.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"JSM75" <JSM75.RemoveThis@verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
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>
> "Polarhound" <yhf9832283483y.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XKednb5dtZCLEt_VnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@comcast.com...
>> I see you skimmed over the part where she wants them to cough up despite
>> the fact that HER INSURANCE HASN'T EVEN PROCESSED THE CLAIMS YET. Without
>> knowing the end result, she is already going after the team, the bat
>> manufacturer, and any else she can squeeze a few dollars out of.
>
> The team has a personal obligation to step up and help out. Bottom line.

Why? They have done everything within their power to warn people that bats
and balls (and even players) come into the stands. She even said in the
article she thought her seats were in a dangerous area. They flat out told
her if you sit here and are hit by a ball or a bat..its on you. So how do
they have a personal obligation? And if they pay her, aren't they admitting
to some sort of responsibility? And if they do, what about the other fans
that have been hit in the past? What about other ball parks? Do we limit it
to MLB or should the minor league teams also assume some "moral or personal"
obligation? What about the friend who took her to the game..shouldn't he
have some personal obligation?

AG
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"AguaGirl" <someone.TakeThisOut@somewhere.net> wrote in message
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> Why? They have done everything within their power to warn people that
> bats and balls (and even players) come into the stands.

It does not matter. The person who causes the injury is liable. You cannot
just say "I know driving is unsafe and I could get hurt, so if I get hit by
someone, they are not liable." Using your same logic, no one needs liability
insurance.

The Calgary Flames, The Columbus Blue Jackets, and other sports franchises
have covered fans hit by pucks, balls, bats, and other problems.

There is no reason the Dodgers cannot pay an upwards of 20 thousand dollars
a year in medical bills for people hurt in their complex.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"BOZAK" <BOZAK DeleteThis @verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
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>
> "AguaGirl" <someone DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:484329e4$0$5703$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Why? They have done everything within their power to warn people that
>> bats and balls (and even players) come into the stands.
>
> It does not matter. The person who causes the injury is liable. You cannot
> just say "I know driving is unsafe and I could get hurt, so if I get hit
> by someone, they are not liable." Using your same logic, no one needs
> liability insurance.

If she had bought game insurance than the analogy of the car accident might
have some bearing but it doesn't. Insurance is a gamble. I could pay the
insurance company for 50 years and never need it. They win the bet. I
could make my first payment on a 1 year premium and make a million dollar
claim, they lose the bet. And for the record, driving in and of itself is
not unsafe. Unsafe drivers make it unsafe. Someone not yeilding the right
away, someone not paying attention, someone driving too fast or too slow for
the conditions etc. Its not the same thing. No matter how much you want to
twist the analogy to work..it doesn't.

> The Calgary Flames, The Columbus Blue Jackets, and other sports franchises
> have covered fans hit by pucks, balls, bats, and other problems.
>
> There is no reason the Dodgers cannot pay an upwards of 20 thousand
> dollars a year in medical bills for people hurt in their complex.

It's the "upwards" part that is problematic. You are completely naive if
you think it would end with them covering her medical bills. There would be
lost time at work, pain and suffering, etc. They pay out one dime and there
would be a hundred hands out asking for their "share". Besides, 20 k might
seem like a drop in the bucket but if one MLB club sets a precedence than it
exposes every other major and minor league club to lawsuits. How many
pucks per game go into the stands versus baseballs? Do you want to watch
baseball from behind a screen no matter where you sit? Thank god you aren't
commissioner.

AG
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"AguaGirl" <someone.TakeThisOut@somewhere.net> wrote in message
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>
> "Triple" <rhager4.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:QxE0k.7062$nW2.6851@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> "Joe" <joe.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:R_B0k.5918$mh5.2165@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> From the LA Times
>>>
>>> http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shaikin1-2008jun01,0,541607,full.story
>>
>> That says it all. MLB knows they are dangerous. No disclaimer is going to
>> protect a club or a player from getting sued someday. Worse, what happens
>> when some pitcher gets killed?
>>
>> These things need to go.
>
> That may be true...but that doesn't mean they should pay everyone who has
> been hit by a maple bat.

They should pay for their medical bills out of personal caring. They should
pay their medical bills because they knew the bats were faulty. You are a
baseball fan first and a humanist second.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"BOZAK" <BOZAK.RemoveThis@verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
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>
> "AguaGirl" <someone.RemoveThis@somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:48432b89$0$5738$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "Triple" <rhager4.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:QxE0k.7062$nW2.6851@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> "Joe" <joe.RemoveThis@att.net> wrote in message
>>> news:R_B0k.5918$mh5.2165@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> From the LA Times
>>>>
>>>> http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shaikin1-2008jun01,0,541607,full.story
>>>
>>> That says it all. MLB knows they are dangerous. No disclaimer is going
>>> to protect a club or a player from getting sued someday. Worse, what
>>> happens when some pitcher gets killed?
>>>
>>> These things need to go.
>>
>> That may be true...but that doesn't mean they should pay everyone who has
>> been hit by a maple bat.
>
> They should pay for their medical bills out of personal caring. They
> should pay their medical bills because they knew the bats were faulty. You
> are a baseball fan first and a humanist second.

If your so generous, why don't you step up and pay her bills? Seriously,
you accuse me of not caring because I recognize that business has to protect
itself? You really want to compare charitable acts or are you a "humanist"
in words only? Easy to spend someone elses money isn't it. This has
nothing to do with being a fan or with being uncaring about a fan being hit.
It has to do with an understanding of the business. If the team makes a
move to pay then a lawyer could point to it and use it as ammunition in a
law suit...and it wouldn't even need to be over that one incident. "see,
the teams know that they are responsible, look how they actually paid in
this case over here". Personally I think you and Triple should chip in on
her bills, start a fund for her. You want the world to be more caring, more
humane...look in the mirror and make it happen.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"AguaGirl" <someone DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:484325c7$0$5695$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> I didn't take it as snotty. But it is apples and oranges. I pay for
> insurance. If my car gets hit I am only dipping into a pool of money I
> helped create for such a situation.

Ahem, if you hit another car, then they knew driving could be dangerous
right? You don't owe them anaything. They should have known better.

Agua girl has just awoken me to the fact that no one needs liability
insurance.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"AguaGirl" <someone.DeleteThis@somewhere.net> wrote in message
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> If your so generous, why don't you step up and pay her bills?

I have seen games in Dodger stadium before.

Like I said, you are a baseball fan first and a humanist second.




Seriously,
> you accuse me of not caring because I recognize that business has to
> protect itself? You really want to compare charitable acts or are you a
> "humanist" in words only? Easy to spend someone elses money isn't it.
> This has nothing to do with being a fan or with being uncaring about a fan
> being hit. It has to do with an understanding of the business. If the
> team makes a move to pay then a lawyer could point to it and use it as
> ammunition in a law suit...and it wouldn't even need to be over that one
> incident. "see, the teams know that they are responsible, look how they
> actually paid in this case over here". Personally I think you and Triple
> should chip in on her bills, start a fund for her. You want the world to
> be more caring, more humane...look in the mirror and make it happen.
>
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

" bozak" <________bozak1.TakeThisOut@gmail.com________> wrote in message
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>
> "AguaGirl" <someone.TakeThisOut@somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:48436f0c$0$4068$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> If your so generous, why don't you step up and pay her bills?
>
> I have seen games in Dodger stadium before.
>
> Like I said, you are a baseball fan first and a humanist second.

Like I said, it's easy to be generous with someone else's money. Tell me
about your own charitable contributions. Do you do anything or do you just
point out how others aren't doing enough?
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

"AguaGirl" <someone DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote in message
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>
> "BOZAK" <BOZAK DeleteThis @verizon.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:vcG0k.1042$b_.838@trnddc02...
>>
>> "AguaGirl" <someone DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote in message
>> news:484329e4$0$5703$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> Why? They have done everything within their power to warn people that
>>> bats and balls (and even players) come into the stands.
>>
>> It does not matter. The person who causes the injury is liable. You
>> cannot just say "I know driving is unsafe and I could get hurt, so if I
>> get hit by someone, they are not liable." Using your same logic, no one
>> needs liability insurance.
>
> If she had bought game insurance than the analogy of the car accident
> might have some bearing but it doesn't. Insurance is a gamble.


You don't get it though. Your whole bit negates liability insurance. Under
your call, liability insurance should not exist. That means if someone plows
into you on the highway, then their defense should be "you knew it was
dangerous, best wishes."

In this case, a professional team should do it out of respect... This does
not happen often enough to where medical bills get this big. This is a
chance for the Dodgers to do the right thing.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up... 

Polarhound wrote:
> We are a greedy, materialistic, lawsuit-happy society. The line has to
> be drawn somewhere, and when you use your ticket you agree to the line
> the team and/or MLB has drawn in the sand. Changing the rules after the
> fact does not and will not happen.

Your ticket is irrelevant in Canada, and probably in the U.S.:

==========
Many lawyers say the disclaimers on the backs of tickets don't absolve
teams or venues.

"Ninety-nine times out of 100 here in Canada, it doesn't matter whether
or not there's a disclaimer on the ticket," said Marcel Jodoin, an
attorney from suburban Winnipeg who represents Nick Hildebrand. "Because
you don't get the ticket until after you've paid. The courts up here
have said you can't impose new terms into a contract after the
contract's been made."

Jim Elliott, a Michigan attorney who has represented fans injured at
games, said it won't be long before teams realize that it's cheaper to
put up nets and higher break-resistant glass to protect fans.

"I said a couple of years back that in 10 years it's going to be
different," Elliott said. "The sporting venues are going to be
different. It's unfortunate that people have to lose their eyesight or
lose their life."
===========

http://espn.go.com/nhl/news/2002/0320/1355047.html

He was addressing hockey specifically, but sports in general.

From what little research I've done, fans have been unsuccessful in
lawsuits, not because of what it says on the ticket, but because they
assume a known risk. In fact, not once did I see ticket disclaimers
even addressed in the judgment of these suits.

This case might be a little different, regarding the "known risk"
factor, because, although fans should know the risk of hard hit balls
and broken bats, if they can show that teams continued to use a
defective product that placed additional risk to fans, the court may see
it the other way.

It's why McDonald's lost the infamous coffee case. They introduced
additional risk beyond what is normally expected. And they've changed
their practices as a result.
 >> Stay informed about: How bout the Dodgers step up...