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Since: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:41 am
Post subject: Why baseball left Montreal Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>montreal-expos (more info?)
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From what I've read it seems like some of you want the Expos to move while
others want them to stay in Montreal. I'll give you some of the reasons
why they left Montreal.
First, how do you expect a team to survive in a market where they have no
radio or television contracts, little or no support from local businesses,
no corporate sponsor, no local owner, and few fans? Montreal was a great
city for baseball at one time, but those days are long gone. Smaller
cities in the United States give their MLB teams more support than
Montreal gave their Expos during the last 5 years.
Second, I noticed that someone wrote about the team being "abandoned by
baseball and not by fans." It was actually abandoned by both parties. I
have to admit that Major League Baseball did not treat the team well when
they bought it for contraction and gave the team an small payroll, in
addition to moving some of the games to other locations. However, the fans
didn't help either. There are other baseball teams that have fairly low
attendance at their home games (Royals, Brewers, Marlins, Devil Rays,
White Sox) but those teams have not had such low attendance at a
consistent rate during the last decade as the Expos had during the same
time period. On many nights during the 2004 season there was only 1 person
for every 10 seats in Olympic Stadium, and a few times that figure was
even more dismal. I know there are Expos fans, but there aren't enough of
them to support the team in its home market.
Third, the lack of fan attendance in Montreal is what caused baseball to
consider contraction. The contraction talk hurt the team, but attendance
was down before the contraction talk ever began. If the Expos had better
support during the 1990s then baseball would have never considered the
Expos for contraction. The residents of Canada can thank the Americans for
supporting the Minnesota Twins when that team was a target for
contraction. Because there were enough people who cared about the Twins
the team made a recovery on the field and in the stands, so the Expos were
saved from contraction because baseball could no longer contract the
Twins. However, the residents of Montreal gave Bud Selig more reasons to
move the team because attendance continued to decline each year, so that
is why the team is moving.
Fourth, no one in Montreal stepped forward to buy the team before Jeffrey
Loria came into the picture. I'm sure there is someone in Montreal who
could have bought the team and paid for the acquisition of new players and
paid part of the price for a new stadium. But no one stepped up to the
plate and the Quebec government struck down the stadium proposal. If the
owners hadn't sold all their good players away, like the Florida Marlins
did after the 1997 World Series, and a new stadium had been built then
baseball could have secured its future in Montreal.
I don't know what will happen next year, but if the move to Washington
falls through and the team moves back to Montreal then the fans and city
must show that they will support a baseball team. It's irrelevant to
consider that Olympic Stadium used to sell out because those days have
been gone for a long time. Canadiens (and some Americans) don't seem to
understand that the reason why the Expos are the latest in a string of
failed Canadien professional teams (Winnepeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques,
Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos) is that the local market showed no
interest in keeping the team until it was too late. Baseball is a
business, and because the Expos lost money in its home market and
attendance figures continued to decline it's understandable why baseball
moved some of the home games to other locations to cut their losses. This
move hurt the Montreal market, but the attendance for those games in
Montreal probably would have been no better than the attendance in the
other locations. If you were the owner of a business that lost $20 million
or so each year, wouldn't you make a change so your company wouldn't
continue to lose money indefinitely? >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Nov 30, 2004 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Not to be picky, but it's 'CanadiAns'.
Honestly, you Americens crack me up.
"baseballfan100" <pottsb29.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b5959e41dd2d6ed0099794f8a67989f@localhost.talkaboutbaseball.com...
> From what I've read it seems like some of you want the Expos to move while
> others want them to stay in Montreal. I'll give you some of the reasons
> why they left Montreal.
>
> First, how do you expect a team to survive in a market where they have no
> radio or television contracts, little or no support from local businesses,
> no corporate sponsor, no local owner, and few fans? Montreal was a great
> city for baseball at one time, but those days are long gone. Smaller
> cities in the United States give their MLB teams more support than
> Montreal gave their Expos during the last 5 years.
>
> Second, I noticed that someone wrote about the team being "abandoned by
> baseball and not by fans." It was actually abandoned by both parties. I
> have to admit that Major League Baseball did not treat the team well when
> they bought it for contraction and gave the team an small payroll, in
> addition to moving some of the games to other locations. However, the fans
> didn't help either. There are other baseball teams that have fairly low
> attendance at their home games (Royals, Brewers, Marlins, Devil Rays,
> White Sox) but those teams have not had such low attendance at a
> consistent rate during the last decade as the Expos had during the same
> time period. On many nights during the 2004 season there was only 1 person
> for every 10 seats in Olympic Stadium, and a few times that figure was
> even more dismal. I know there are Expos fans, but there aren't enough of
> them to support the team in its home market.
>
> Third, the lack of fan attendance in Montreal is what caused baseball to
> consider contraction. The contraction talk hurt the team, but attendance
> was down before the contraction talk ever began. If the Expos had better
> support during the 1990s then baseball would have never considered the
> Expos for contraction. The residents of Canada can thank the Americans for
> supporting the Minnesota Twins when that team was a target for
> contraction. Because there were enough people who cared about the Twins
> the team made a recovery on the field and in the stands, so the Expos were
> saved from contraction because baseball could no longer contract the
> Twins. However, the residents of Montreal gave Bud Selig more reasons to
> move the team because attendance continued to decline each year, so that
> is why the team is moving.
>
> Fourth, no one in Montreal stepped forward to buy the team before Jeffrey
> Loria came into the picture. I'm sure there is someone in Montreal who
> could have bought the team and paid for the acquisition of new players and
> paid part of the price for a new stadium. But no one stepped up to the
> plate and the Quebec government struck down the stadium proposal. If the
> owners hadn't sold all their good players away, like the Florida Marlins
> did after the 1997 World Series, and a new stadium had been built then
> baseball could have secured its future in Montreal.
>
> I don't know what will happen next year, but if the move to Washington
> falls through and the team moves back to Montreal then the fans and city
> must show that they will support a baseball team. It's irrelevant to
> consider that Olympic Stadium used to sell out because those days have
> been gone for a long time. Canadiens (and some Americans) don't seem to
> understand that the reason why the Expos are the latest in a string of
> failed Canadien professional teams (Winnepeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques,
> Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos) is that the local market showed no
> interest in keeping the team until it was too late. Baseball is a
> business, and because the Expos lost money in its home market and
> attendance figures continued to decline it's understandable why baseball
> moved some of the home games to other locations to cut their losses. This
> move hurt the Montreal market, but the attendance for those games in
> Montreal probably would have been no better than the attendance in the
> other locations. If you were the owner of a business that lost $20 million
> or so each year, wouldn't you make a change so your company wouldn't
> continue to lose money indefinitely?
> >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Nov 30, 2004 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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yeah, canadiEns is french
honestly, i couldn't care less about losing the expos, MLB is a joke, enjoy
your franchise Washington,
out of curiosity, in the years since you've lost the senators and got the
nationals, how many, if any, minor league teams has washington had ?
"Dave Janveau" <dave RemoveThis @sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:zH8rd.13797$kI6.891641@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Not to be picky, but it's 'CanadiAns'.
>
> Honestly, you Americens crack me up.
>
>
> "baseballfan100" <pottsb29 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3b5959e41dd2d6ed0099794f8a67989f@localhost.talkaboutbaseball.com...
> > From what I've read it seems like some of you want the Expos to move
while
> > others want them to stay in Montreal. I'll give you some of the reasons
> > why they left Montreal.
> >
> > First, how do you expect a team to survive in a market where they have
no
> > radio or television contracts, little or no support from local
businesses,
> > no corporate sponsor, no local owner, and few fans? Montreal was a great
> > city for baseball at one time, but those days are long gone. Smaller
> > cities in the United States give their MLB teams more support than
> > Montreal gave their Expos during the last 5 years.
> >
> > Second, I noticed that someone wrote about the team being "abandoned by
> > baseball and not by fans." It was actually abandoned by both parties. I
> > have to admit that Major League Baseball did not treat the team well
when
> > they bought it for contraction and gave the team an small payroll, in
> > addition to moving some of the games to other locations. However, the
fans
> > didn't help either. There are other baseball teams that have fairly low
> > attendance at their home games (Royals, Brewers, Marlins, Devil Rays,
> > White Sox) but those teams have not had such low attendance at a
> > consistent rate during the last decade as the Expos had during the same
> > time period. On many nights during the 2004 season there was only 1
person
> > for every 10 seats in Olympic Stadium, and a few times that figure was
> > even more dismal. I know there are Expos fans, but there aren't enough
of
> > them to support the team in its home market.
> >
> > Third, the lack of fan attendance in Montreal is what caused baseball to
> > consider contraction. The contraction talk hurt the team, but attendance
> > was down before the contraction talk ever began. If the Expos had better
> > support during the 1990s then baseball would have never considered the
> > Expos for contraction. The residents of Canada can thank the Americans
for
> > supporting the Minnesota Twins when that team was a target for
> > contraction. Because there were enough people who cared about the Twins
> > the team made a recovery on the field and in the stands, so the Expos
were
> > saved from contraction because baseball could no longer contract the
> > Twins. However, the residents of Montreal gave Bud Selig more reasons to
> > move the team because attendance continued to decline each year, so that
> > is why the team is moving.
> >
> > Fourth, no one in Montreal stepped forward to buy the team before
Jeffrey
> > Loria came into the picture. I'm sure there is someone in Montreal who
> > could have bought the team and paid for the acquisition of new players
and
> > paid part of the price for a new stadium. But no one stepped up to the
> > plate and the Quebec government struck down the stadium proposal. If the
> > owners hadn't sold all their good players away, like the Florida Marlins
> > did after the 1997 World Series, and a new stadium had been built then
> > baseball could have secured its future in Montreal.
> >
> > I don't know what will happen next year, but if the move to Washington
> > falls through and the team moves back to Montreal then the fans and city
> > must show that they will support a baseball team. It's irrelevant to
> > consider that Olympic Stadium used to sell out because those days have
> > been gone for a long time. Canadiens (and some Americans) don't seem to
> > understand that the reason why the Expos are the latest in a string of
> > failed Canadien professional teams (Winnepeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques,
> > Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos) is that the local market showed no
> > interest in keeping the team until it was too late. Baseball is a
> > business, and because the Expos lost money in its home market and
> > attendance figures continued to decline it's understandable why baseball
> > moved some of the home games to other locations to cut their losses.
This
> > move hurt the Montreal market, but the attendance for those games in
> > Montreal probably would have been no better than the attendance in the
> > other locations. If you were the owner of a business that lost $20
million
> > or so each year, wouldn't you make a change so your company wouldn't
> > continue to lose money indefinitely?
> >
>
> >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Aug 10, 2004 Posts: 134
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<3b5959e41dd2d6ed0099794f8a67989f.DeleteThis@localhost.talkaboutbaseball.com>,
pottsb29.DeleteThis@hotmail.com says...
> From what I've read it seems like some of you want the Expos to move while
> others want them to stay in Montreal. I'll give you some of the reasons
> why they left Montreal.
>
> First, how do you expect a team to survive in a market where they have no
> radio or television contracts, little or no support from local businesses,
> no corporate sponsor, no local owner, and few fans? Montreal was a great
> city for baseball at one time, but those days are long gone. Smaller
> cities in the United States give their MLB teams more support than
> Montreal gave their Expos during the last 5 years.
>
> Second, I noticed that someone wrote about the team being "abandoned by
> baseball and not by fans." It was actually abandoned by both parties. I
> have to admit that Major League Baseball did not treat the team well when
> they bought it for contraction and gave the team an small payroll, in
> addition to moving some of the games to other locations. However, the fans
> didn't help either. There are other baseball teams that have fairly low
> attendance at their home games (Royals, Brewers, Marlins, Devil Rays,
> White Sox) but those teams have not had such low attendance at a
> consistent rate during the last decade as the Expos had during the same
> time period. On many nights during the 2004 season there was only 1 person
> for every 10 seats in Olympic Stadium, and a few times that figure was
> even more dismal. I know there are Expos fans, but there aren't enough of
> them to support the team in its home market.
Blaming the fans at all makes little sense.
If Hershey's started making chocolate bars that contained fecal
matter and people stop buying and eating them, they're not being
disloyal, they're refusing to buy an inferior product.
The Expos team management and MLB poisoned the market for Expos
baseball. When someone pisses in your well, having a drink is
stupid, not loyal.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan.DeleteThis@baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Dec 01, 2004 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:20 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dan Szymborski" <dan.TakeThisOut@REMOVEbaseballprimer.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c17254fb664f50f98978a@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> In article
> <3b5959e41dd2d6ed0099794f8a67989f.TakeThisOut@localhost.talkaboutbaseball.com>,
> pottsb29.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com says...
> > From what I've read it seems like some of you want the Expos to move
while
> > others want them to stay in Montreal. I'll give you some of the reasons
> > why they left Montreal.
> >
> > First, how do you expect a team to survive in a market where they have
no
> > radio or television contracts, little or no support from local
businesses,
> > no corporate sponsor, no local owner, and few fans? Montreal was a great
> > city for baseball at one time, but those days are long gone. Smaller
> > cities in the United States give their MLB teams more support than
> > Montreal gave their Expos during the last 5 years.
> >
> > Second, I noticed that someone wrote about the team being "abandoned by
> > baseball and not by fans." It was actually abandoned by both parties. I
> > have to admit that Major League Baseball did not treat the team well
when
> > they bought it for contraction and gave the team an small payroll, in
> > addition to moving some of the games to other locations. However, the
fans
> > didn't help either. There are other baseball teams that have fairly low
> > attendance at their home games (Royals, Brewers, Marlins, Devil Rays,
> > White Sox) but those teams have not had such low attendance at a
> > consistent rate during the last decade as the Expos had during the same
> > time period. On many nights during the 2004 season there was only 1
person
> > for every 10 seats in Olympic Stadium, and a few times that figure was
> > even more dismal. I know there are Expos fans, but there aren't enough
of
> > them to support the team in its home market.
>
> Blaming the fans at all makes little sense.
>
> If Hershey's started making chocolate bars that contained fecal
> matter and people stop buying and eating them, they're not being
> disloyal, they're refusing to buy an inferior product.
>
> The Expos team management and MLB poisoned the market for Expos
> baseball. When someone pisses in your well, having a drink is
> stupid, not loyal.
>
> --
> Dan Szymborski
> dan.TakeThisOut@baseballprimerREMOVE.com
>
> "A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
> a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
> - Robert Schumann
That's about the best, most to-the-point post I have ever seen. Way to
shoot down the idiot.
Steve
P.S. On a side note, ever had a Hershey Eat-More? Made from refuse.
Seriously, all the rejected (bad weight, not enough coating etc.) candy bars
get put into a big slurry tank, melted down and formed into Eat-More. As
close to candy fecal matter as you will ever get. >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Jan 26, 2005 Posts: 500
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:52 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Sean wrote:
>
> out of curiosity, in the years since you've lost the senators and got the
> nationals, how many, if any, minor league teams has washington had ?
>
2: The Potomac Cannons and the Bowie Bay Sox. (or 3 if you count the
Frederick Keys)
--
FSogol >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Aug 30, 2004 Posts: 50
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:17 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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FSogol <FSogol DeleteThis @nospamplease.org> wrote in message news:<41adcc51$0$85022$c0de3616@dsl.net>...
> Sean wrote:
> >
> > out of curiosity, in the years since you've lost the senators and got the
> > nationals, how many, if any, minor league teams has washington had ?
> >
>
> 2: The Potomac Cannons and the Bowie Bay Sox. (or 3 if you count the
> Frederick Keys)
Also add in the Alexandria (VA) teams in the Carolina League. They are
actually the closest team to DC to exist. They played from 1978-1983
as the Alexandria Dukes, except in 1979 when they were the Alexandria
Mariners. >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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OK, after reading the posts on my topic I have to admit that I made two
notable spelling errors (should have written "Canadians" and "Winnipeg."
Your posts also gave me some insight about the move and caused me to
realize that I failed to blame management for alienating the fans. I will
say that the team's management was poor after the strike-shortened 1994
season, and their decision to sell off all the team's good players drove
many of the fans away. I should have known because the Florida Marlins
also lost their fan support when their owner sold off all the good players
from the 1997 World Series team. The fans didn't come back until the 2003
postseason, when the Marlins would once again win the World Series. >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Oct 25, 2003 Posts: 79
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:21:40 -0500, "baseballfan100"
<pottsb29.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>many of the fans away. I should have known because the Florida Marlins
>also lost their fan support when their owner sold off all the good players
>from the 1997 World Series team. The fans didn't come back until the 2003
>postseason, when the Marlins would once again win the World Series.
Well, at least their fans had to wait only 6 years to celebrate. I
will probably not see an MLB team in Montreal again in my lifetime.
Roberta >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Jan 26, 2005 Posts: 500
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Mark Wolven wrote:
> FSogol <FSogol.RemoveThis@nospamplease.org> wrote in message news:<41adcc51$0$85022$c0de3616@dsl.net>...
>
>>Sean wrote:
>>
>>>out of curiosity, in the years since you've lost the senators and got the
>>>nationals, how many, if any, minor league teams has washington had ?
>>>
>>
>>2: The Potomac Cannons and the Bowie Bay Sox. (or 3 if you count the
>>Frederick Keys)
>
>
> Also add in the Alexandria (VA) teams in the Carolina League. They are
> actually the closest team to DC to exist. They played from 1978-1983
> as the Alexandria Dukes, except in 1979 when they were the Alexandria
> Mariners.
I had forgotten about them. I also forgot the Bethesda Big Train. I
think they are a single A club.
--
FSogol >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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Since: Feb 13, 2005 Posts: 63
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: Why baseball left Montreal [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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FSogol wrote:
> Mark Wolven wrote:
>
> > FSogol <FSogol DeleteThis @nospamplease.org> wrote in message
news:<41adcc51$0$85022$c0de3616@dsl.net>...
> >
> >>Sean wrote:
> >>
> >>>out of curiosity, in the years since you've lost the senators and
got the
> >>>nationals, how many, if any, minor league teams has washington had
?
> >>>
> >>
> >>2: The Potomac Cannons and the Bowie Bay Sox. (or 3 if you count
the
> >>Frederick Keys)
> >
> >
> > Also add in the Alexandria (VA) teams in the Carolina League. They
are
> > actually the closest team to DC to exist. They played from
1978-1983
> > as the Alexandria Dukes, except in 1979 when they were the
Alexandria
> > Mariners.
>
> I had forgotten about them. I also forgot the Bethesda Big Train. I
> think they are a single A club.
> --
> FSogol
The Bethesda Big Train plays in the Cal Griffith College Baseball
League. It's a league for college players home for the summer. A number
of Big Train players have gone on to play pro ball. See
www.bigtrain.org for info. >> Stay informed about: Why baseball left Montreal |
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