ala Babe Ruth

In article <100720080659393321%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
Steve Cutchen <maxfaq DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article
><ffc2b076-0f44-43ef-bab7-2a47d2a0713b DeleteThis @2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
><"john0714@aol.com"> wrote:
>
>> Babe Ruth had the potential to be a HOF pitcher and/or hitter many
>> experts agree. Very early in his career he decided to let pitching go
>> altogether and be just a position player and the Red Sox and later the
>> Yankees agreed.
>
>*He* didn't decide. He was pissed.
>
>> Suppose he wanted to maximise both talents, could he?
>
>Hard to maximize hitting and also take the days off needed
>
>> Has there ever been later a MLB player with the potential to be a
>> great hitter and/or pitcher since Ruth?
>>
>> If you were running an MLB ballcub and you got hold of one what would
>> you do?
>
>Ask Brooks Kieschnick?

The question has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere.
Rough answers: no, combining the two is so difficult that it's
generally doubted Ruth could have kept up his pitching much
longer. Notable pitcher-hitters you should consider if you
choose to pursue this:

Rick Ankiel
Tocky Colavito
Martin Dihigo
Wes Ferrell
Terry Forster
Guy Hecker
Walter Johnson
Brooks Kieschnick
Bob Lemon
Stan Musial
John Olerud
Red Ruffing
Babe Ruth
George Uhle
Bucky Walters
John M. Ward
Smokey Joe Wood
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

On Jul 10, 12:41�pm, cla... DeleteThis @lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
> In article <100720080659393321%max...@earthlink.net>,
> Steve Cutchen �<max... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article
> ><ffc2b076-0f44-43ef-bab7-2a47d2a07... DeleteThis @2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
> ><"john0...@aol.com"> wrote:
>
> >> Babe Ruth had the potential to be a HOF pitcher and/or hitter many
> >> experts agree. Very early in his career he decided to let pitching go
> >> altogether and be just a position player and the Red Sox and later the
> >> Yankees agreed.
>
> >*He* didn't decide. �He was pissed.


Not the way I heard it.


>
> >> Suppose he wanted to maximise both talents, could he?
>
> >Hard to maximize hitting and also take the days off needed
>
> >> Has there ever been later a MLB player with the potential to be a
> >> great hitter and/or pitcher since Ruth?
>
> >> If you were running an MLB ballcub and you got hold of one what would
> >> you do?
>
> >Ask Brooks Kieschnick?
>
> The question has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere.
> Rough answers: �no, combining the two is so difficult that it's
> generally doubted Ruth could have kept up his pitching much
> longer. �Notable pitcher-hitters you should consider if you
> choose to pursue this:
>
> � Rick Ankiel
> � Tocky Colavito
> � Martin Dihigo
> � Wes Ferrell
> � Terry Forster
> � Guy Hecker
> � Walter Johnson
> � Brooks Kieschnick
> � Bob Lemon
> � Stan Musial
> � John Olerud
> � Red Ruffing
> � Babe Ruth
> � George Uhle
> � Bucky Walters
> � John M. Ward
> � Smokey Joe Wood- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


How much do we really know about say Stan Musial as an MLB pitcher or
Bob Lemon as an MLB hitter?
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article <o6uhk5-70l.ln1 DeleteThis @lairds.us>, claird DeleteThis @lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
wrote:

> The question has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere.
> Rough answers: no, combining the two is so difficult that it's
> generally doubted Ruth could have kept up his pitching much
> longer. Notable pitcher-hitters you should consider if you
> choose to pursue this:
>
> Rick Ankiel
> Tocky Colavito

and his better-known twin brother, Rocky,

> Martin Dihigo
> Wes Ferrell
> Terry Forster
> Guy Hecker
> Walter Johnson
> Brooks Kieschnick
> Bob Lemon
> Stan Musial
> John Olerud
> Red Ruffing
> Babe Ruth
> George Uhle
> Bucky Walters
> John M. Ward
> Smokey Joe Wood

and George Sisler, and Sam Rice,
and Don Newcombe.

--
Gerry Myerson (gerry@maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article <100720080659393321%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
Steve Cutchen <maxfaq.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article
> <ffc2b076-0f44-43ef-bab7-2a47d2a0713b.DeleteThis@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
> <"john0714@aol.com"> wrote:
>
> > Babe Ruth had the potential to be a HOF pitcher and/or hitter many
> > experts agree. Very early in his career he decided to let pitching go
> > altogether and be just a position player and the Red Sox and later the
> > Yankees agreed.
>
> *He* didn't decide. He was pissed.

Oh? I thought I read that by 1918/19 he just wanted to hit,
and was annoyed the Sox kept putting him on the mound.

--
Gerry Myerson (gerry@maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article <gerry-9FBCD4.09452611072008 RemoveThis @sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au>, Gerry
Myerson <gerry RemoveThis @maths.mq.edi.ai.i2u4email> wrote:

> In article <100720080659393321%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
> Steve Cutchen <maxfaq RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <ffc2b076-0f44-43ef-bab7-2a47d2a0713b RemoveThis @2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
> > <"john0714@aol.com"> wrote:
> >
> > > Babe Ruth had the potential to be a HOF pitcher and/or hitter many
> > > experts agree. Very early in his career he decided to let pitching go
> > > altogether and be just a position player and the Red Sox and later the
> > > Yankees agreed.
> >
> > *He* didn't decide. He was pissed.
>
> Oh? I thought I read that by 1918/19 he just wanted to hit,
> and was annoyed the Sox kept putting him on the mound.

It's been a while since I read Creamer's bio, but I think I recall that
he wanted to keep doing both, but was pulled off of the pitching
rotation because as a pitcher he could only affect a few games whereas
as a hitter he could affect every game. He wanted to pitch his normal
pitching schedule and hit in the other games. He was pissed when he
was pulled from pitching.
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article
<38466cf6-b55b-4346-9c48-e64cace4b7e4.TakeThisOut@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"john0714@aol.com" <john0714.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:

>
> How much do we really know about say Stan Musial as an MLB pitcher or
> Bob Lemon as an MLB hitter?

My understanding is that Musial injured his arm in the minors and then
switched to being a position player.

Unlike Ruth, Musial wasn't that good a pitcher and probably wouldn't
have made the majors had he not switched.

--
Hank Gillette

"Barack Obama is not going to beat Hillary Clinton in a single Democratic
primary. I'll predict that right now." -- William Kristol, 12/17/2006
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article <38466cf6-b55b-4346-9c48-e64cace4b7e4.RemoveThis@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
john0714.RemoveThis@aol.com <john0714.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jul 10, 12:41�pm, cla....RemoveThis@lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote:
.
.
.
>How much do we really know about say Stan Musial as an MLB pitcher or
>Bob Lemon as an MLB hitter?

I suspect your question is rhetorical, and we both
know the answer. My summary would be that the
neatest thing about this topic is what a diversity
of characters and achievements the subject repre-
sents: any time you lump Bucky Walters and Babe
Ruth, or Guy Hecker and Rick Ankiel, there's going
to be a lot of 'xplaining to do, and a corresponding
mass of good baseball narrative.

I'll grant that Lemon was NOT on track to make anyone
forget Red Rolfe at third.
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:17:56 -0700 (PDT), "john0714@aol.com"
<john0714.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

>Has there ever been later a MLB player with the potential to be a
>great hitter and/or pitcher since Ruth?

Clint Hartung.
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth 

In article <o6uhk5-70l.ln1 DeleteThis @lairds.us>, claird DeleteThis @lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
wrote:

> The question has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere.
> Rough answers: no, combining the two is so difficult that it's
> generally doubted Ruth could have kept up his pitching much
> longer.

I don't really remember the discussion here, but it's hard to believe
that Ruth's teams exploited his full value as a pitcher/hitter (that's
ignoring the fact that given Ruth's personality and work habits they
probably didn't exploit his full value as just a hitter).

What if the designated hitter had been in effect at the time? Aside from
the possibility that no one would have even discovered that the Ruth kid
could hit a little, would it have been possible for Ruth to be a DH/P?
Even if he couldn't handle starting every four days, perhaps he could
have been a spot starter.

If a Babe Ruth were playing today, surely a manager like Tony LaRussa
would at least try using him to pitch to left handers. How handy would
it be to have a left-handed relief pitcher that you could bring in for
one or two batters multiple times in a game?

--
Hank Gillette

"Barack Obama is not going to beat Hillary Clinton in a single Democratic
primary. I'll predict that right now." -- William Kristol, 12/17/2006
 >> Stay informed about: ala Babe Ruth