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Twins beat White Sox at their own game

 
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infield homerun

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Since: Jul 31, 2008
Posts: 10



(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Twins beat White Sox at their own game [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>mn-twins (more info?)

"brink" <brinknospam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6fer18FbcqipU3@mid.individual.net...
> infield homerun wrote:
>> "brink" <brinknospam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6fcu0nFaaidsU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> This is where Liriano absolutely should have been brought up... a
>>> move like that could very well make a huge difference in this race.
>>> Every game HTH vs. the White Sox is a 2-game swing in the standings
>>> relative to them and since they're likely the Twins' main rival to
>>> win the division -- and make the playoffs at all -- you want to do
>>> everything you can to maximize the potential of winning these games
>>> especially. And for that matter, every start in this spot in the
>>> order down the stretch. There's no guarantee that Cisco would be better
>>> but I'd say he's got
>>> a better chance than Livan down the stretch of the season. Too bad
>>> the Twins are too myopic to see it that way.
>>>
>>> brink
>>
>> Another scenario.
>> Assume that Liriano is not fully recovered and can only pitch say
>> 10-12 games without breaking down at the major league level.
>> In that case would it not make more sense to maintain status-quo, keep
>> pace with the white sox and call him on 23rd Sept to not only deliver
>> a knockout punch to the white sox but also enable him to not breakdown
>> in the playoffs. And of course there is not enough scouting video for
>> the opposition in the playoffs.
>> Another advantage is that he is not eligible for arbitration and so
>> the twins can
>> keep him longer.
>
> I like your posting handle.
If one does not have the power then you rely on speed, right?

>
> Two problems: if Liriano's arm is going to break down, they just be
> shutting him down at AAA.... like 3 weeks ago.
there is a big difference in pitching at MiLB versus MLB, no?
not saying he is going to breakdown.
If we replace Liriano over the next 10-12 starts Livan will get the
rest of the regular season, there will not be a substatitial change in the
standings (I know the twins are only a half game back).
The advantages of holding him back until later, at this point of time
outweigh him pitching right away.
The twins have the easiest schedule of the three teams vying for the
AL Central. Of the 30 road games only 8 are against potential playoff teams
and 9 home games agaisnst potential playoff teams (out of 24). The white sox
have 16 homes games(of 29) and 10 away games (of 26) against potential
playoff teams. The tigers have 8 home games (of 30) and 12 away games (of
24)
against potential playoff teams.

>
> Also, he's already not going to be a Super 2 guy, so the Twins are not
maybe so but the "small budget" team always keep track of how
they "spread" their "sheets".
the only downside I see is Liriano gets tired and frustrated of striking out
AAAers.
I would bring in Liriano probably for 3 starts in the regular season with
his
last start before the playoffs against the white sox.

> keeping him down for salary reasons.
>
> brink

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Matt

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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 216



(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: Twins beat White Sox at their own game [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Aug 1, 11:26 am, "infield homerun" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Two problems: if Liriano's arm is going to break down, they just be
> > shutting him down at AAA.... like 3 weeks ago.
>
> there is a big difference in pitching at MiLB versus MLB, no?

Sure there's a difference. But your shoulder doesn't know that when
its torquing a slider or jamming a 90+ mph fastball. As far as your
shoulder is concerned, it's 100% identical.

There's no excuse for leaving the kid down there. I don't see how even
the biggest homer can rationalize it.

Matt

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brianj

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Since: May 17, 2007
Posts: 290



(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:45 am
Post subject: Re: Twins beat White Sox at their own game [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Aug 1, 11:35 am, Matt <AcesWi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 1, 11:26 am, "infield homerun" <nos....DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Two problems: if Liriano's arm is going to break down, they just be
> > > shutting him down at AAA.... like 3 weeks ago.
>
> > there is a big difference in pitching at MiLB versus MLB, no?
>
> Sure there's a difference. But your shoulder doesn't know that when
> its torquing a slider or jamming a 90+ mph fastball. As far as your
> shoulder is concerned, it's 100% identical.
>
> There's no excuse for leaving the kid down there. I don't see how even
> the biggest homer can rationalize it.
>
> Matt

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to rationalize or justify the
decision. I was just pointing out that there is this problem with
Livan and Boof. How do you know when it is over for a guy? Look at
Sidney Ponson this year. Look at Kyle Lohse. I am just saying that
giving up on a guy who is not performing is not always the right thing
to do. I am glad it's not my decision. But I want to see Liriano up
as much as anybody does. Well, maybe not as much as Matt, but I want
it nonetheless.

brianj
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brink

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Since: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 295



(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins beat White Sox at their own game [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

brianj wrote:
> On Aug 1, 11:35 am, Matt <AcesWi....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 1, 11:26 am, "infield homerun" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Two problems: if Liriano's arm is going to break down, they just be
>>>> shutting him down at AAA.... like 3 weeks ago.
>>
>>> there is a big difference in pitching at MiLB versus MLB, no?
>>
>> Sure there's a difference. But your shoulder doesn't know that when
>> its torquing a slider or jamming a 90+ mph fastball. As far as your
>> shoulder is concerned, it's 100% identical.
>>
>> There's no excuse for leaving the kid down there. I don't see how
>> even the biggest homer can rationalize it.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Just for the record, I wasn't trying to rationalize or justify the
> decision. I was just pointing out that there is this problem with
> Livan and Boof. How do you know when it is over for a guy? Look at
> Sidney Ponson this year. Look at Kyle Lohse. I am just saying that
> giving up on a guy who is not performing is not always the right thing
> to do. I am glad it's not my decision. But I want to see Liriano up
> as much as anybody does. Well, maybe not as much as Matt, but I want
> it nonetheless.

Sometimes it isn't a matter of if it's "over" for a guy... there's a good
chance Boof will be a productive MLB pitcher again someday. It's a question
of whether they can be productive for THIS team in the near future and I'd
say the answer is pretty clearly "no."

Some guys -- like Lohse -- need a change of scenery and a few years. The
Twins just don't have options for Boof, and he's really hurt them this year.
You can afford to try to work a guy thru his problems when you a losing
team, but the Twins are trying to win a division...

brink
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