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External
Since: May 21, 2006
Posts: 1198
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: alt>sports>baseball>detroit-tigers, others (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 552
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Brian Matthews" <noonecares DeleteThis @ddd.com> wrote in message
news:tkh6f2hae6d3i6ot5fvb10b6rf96h9586l@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:49:28 -0700, "brink" <brink DeleteThis @invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>The key always seems to be those head-to-head matchups. Each head-to-head
>>is actually worth *2 whole games* in the standings, since that is the net
>>difference in the standings between losing to your head-to-head opponent
>>and
>>winning.
>>
>>brink
>
>
> Each game is of equal importance. Think about it;
I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical records
heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already clinching
the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the marbles
of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season will
by far be the most importnat game of the season.
It's the same principle of high-leverage vs. low-leverage runs and outs in a
game and why closers have the most important outs and runs to deal with,
even though they aren't "worth more."
>
> When the Tigers won yesterday, the Twins lost. We extended our lead by
> a game, same as if we played them and won. At the end of the year,
> it's the team with the most wins that wins the division. Just ask
> Bill, he'll explain it better. (this is NOT a slam at you Bill, I see
> your point now. If only the Tigs could have swept the Indians......)
I agree, but when you play your #1 rival and biggest threat to your goal,
whether that's winning the division or making the playoffs, you have a
unique opportunity to not only add a win to your total, but to add a loss to
theirs, thereby gaining a whole game advantage in the standings. This is
quite different from winning and then having to rely on an opponent doing
the favor of taking a game from them.
Also, it's more than that -- you have the opportunity to prevent your
opponent from doing the same to you, which is where the 2-game swing comes
in. It's why the 5-game sweep of NY over BOS was so devastating; had all
five games gone the other way (unlikely but of course possible) the face of
the AL East race looks *completely* different right now with the Yankees
likely not making the postseason rather than Boston. Instead of a 6.5 game
lead for NYY at the conclusion of the series, it would've been a 3.5 lead
for BOS. That's a heck of a lot of difference for just five games played.
brink |
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 2298
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Brian Matthews" <noonecares.RemoveThis@ddd.com> wrote in message
news:tkh6f2hae6d3i6ot5fvb10b6rf96h9586l@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:49:28 -0700, "brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>The key always seems to be those head-to-head matchups. Each head-to-head
>>is actually worth *2 whole games* in the standings, since that is the net
>>difference in the standings between losing to your head-to-head opponent
>>and
>>winning.
>>
>>brink
>
>
> Each game is of equal importance. Think about it;
A win in April counts as much as a win in September.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> When the Tigers won yesterday, the Twins lost. We extended our lead by
> a game, same as if we played them and won. At the end of the year,
> it's the team with the most wins that wins the division. Just ask
> Bill, he'll explain it better. (this is NOT a slam at you Bill, I see
> your point now. If only the Tigs could have swept the Indians......)
>
>
> Brian >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 2298
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"brink" <brink.TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4lh4n4F1strkU3@individual.net...
>
> "Brian Matthews" <noonecares.TakeThisOut@ddd.com> wrote in message
> news:tkh6f2hae6d3i6ot5fvb10b6rf96h9586l@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:49:28 -0700, "brink" <brink.TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The key always seems to be those head-to-head matchups. Each
>>>head-to-head
>>>is actually worth *2 whole games* in the standings, since that is the net
>>>difference in the standings between losing to your head-to-head opponent
>>>and
>>>winning.
>>>
>>>brink
>>
>>
>> Each game is of equal importance. Think about it;
>
> I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical records
> heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already clinching
> the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the marbles
> of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
> will
> by far be the most importnat game of the season.
Nope! It would be the one the Twins lost to the W Sox yesterday. The last
game, as a result of that loss, is no more dramatic, but no more important.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> It's the same principle of high-leverage vs. low-leverage runs and outs in
> a
> game and why closers have the most important outs and runs to deal with,
> even though they aren't "worth more."
>
>>
>> When the Tigers won yesterday, the Twins lost. We extended our lead by
>> a game, same as if we played them and won. At the end of the year,
>> it's the team with the most wins that wins the division. Just ask
>> Bill, he'll explain it better. (this is NOT a slam at you Bill, I see
>> your point now. If only the Tigs could have swept the Indians......)
>
> I agree, but when you play your #1 rival and biggest threat to your goal,
> whether that's winning the division or making the playoffs, you have a
> unique opportunity to not only add a win to your total, but to add a loss
> to
> theirs, thereby gaining a whole game advantage in the standings. This is
> quite different from winning and then having to rely on an opponent doing
> the favor of taking a game from them.
>
> Also, it's more than that -- you have the opportunity to prevent your
> opponent from doing the same to you, which is where the 2-game swing comes
> in. It's why the 5-game sweep of NY over BOS was so devastating; had all
> five games gone the other way (unlikely but of course possible) the face
> of
> the AL East race looks *completely* different right now with the Yankees
> likely not making the postseason rather than Boston. Instead of a 6.5
> game
> lead for NYY at the conclusion of the series, it would've been a 3.5 lead
> for BOS. That's a heck of a lot of difference for just five games played.
>
> brink
> >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"brink" <brink.TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4lgp0pF1ru3sU1@individual.net...
>
> <powrwrap.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1156774532.753863.74210@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Brian Matthews wrote:
>>
>>> Twins overtook Sox last night for 2nd place. So with the latest update
>>> on playing .500 ball?
>>>
>>> If the Tigers go 17-16 in their last 33 games, the Twins would need to
>>> go 24-11 in their last 35 games to overtake us.
>>>
>>> That means Detroit could play .515 ball and the Twins would have to
>>> play .685 ball.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doesn't look like a problem for the Twins. They have been playing .688
>> ball since June. Their remaining schedule:
>>
>> EASY
>> 7 games at home vs. KC
>> 3 at Tampa Bay
>> 3 at Baltimore
>> 4 at Cleveland
>>
>> Out of those seventeen games, I say they win 12 of them.
>>
>> NOT EASY
>> 3 at NY Yankees
>> 4 at home vs. Tigers
>> 3 at home vs. Oakland
>> 3 at Boston
>> 3 at home vs. White Sox (last three games of the year)
>>
>> Out of those sixteen games, I say they win 10 of them, including 3 out
>> of 4 from Detroit.
>> This would put the Twins at 98-64.
>>
>> Tigers remaining schedule:
>>
>> 3 at NY Yankees
>> 3 at home vs. Angels
>> 3 at home vs. Mariners
>> 4 at Minnesota
>> 2 at home vs. Texas
>> 3 at home vs. Baltimore
>> 3 at White Sox
>> 1 at Baltimore
>> 3 at KC
>> 3 at home vs. Toronto
>> 3 at home vs. KC
>>
>> Do you see 16 wins in there? If so, it would put the Tigers at 98-64.
>>
>> Based on head-to-head matchups Detroit would take the AL Central.
>
> So tough to say. Detroit has been in a death spiral for the last several
> weeks frittering away a massive lead while a hotshot young upstart team in
> the division that started poorly is closing the gap at a sprint...
The Tigers are up 5 now. They were up 5 a month ago. What was their
"massive" lead several week ago? Six? Six and a half? And now they've
frittered it away from a massive six to miniscule five? HOLY SHIT THE SKY IS
FALLING!! DEATH SPIRAL!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
Get a grip.
but does
> that remind you of anything by chance? Hint: 2005 AL Central, White Sox
> and Indians... and we all know how that turned out.
>
> My guess is that the end result will be like you predicted, Alan. Detroit
> will likely take the division. Minny's REAL race is for the WC, and the
> way things appear today it seems that this is more or less a 2-team
> competition between Twins and ChiSox, with Boston hanging around as a dark
> horse. It is definitely worth noting the three teams's records since the
> ASB:
>
> MIN 29-15
> CHI 19-23
> BOS 18-26
>
> I'll also throw in:
>
> NY 27-16
> OAK 29-13
>
> Fortunately for the Twins, the two teams still in the race have both
> really tripped up since the break, mainly because of pitching
> breakdowns -- which is *exactly* what the Twins are going through.
> Difference is, the Twins have still been mainly winning, almost
> inexplicably, but that takes away credit from the offense, Johan, Radke,
> and the bullpen, all of which have been very, very good.
>
> The key always seems to be those head-to-head matchups. Each head-to-head
> is actually worth *2 whole games* in the standings, since that is the net
> difference in the standings between losing to your head-to-head opponent
> and winning.
>
> brink
> >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 552
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"fungod" <throwinglighteningbolts.TakeThisOut@yourhead.org> wrote in message
news:1QHIg.23942$uH6.12035@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "brink" <brink.TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4lgp0pF1ru3sU1@individual.net...
>>
>> <powrwrap.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1156774532.753863.74210@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Brian Matthews wrote:
>>>
>>>> Twins overtook Sox last night for 2nd place. So with the latest update
>>>> on playing .500 ball?
>>>>
>>>> If the Tigers go 17-16 in their last 33 games, the Twins would need to
>>>> go 24-11 in their last 35 games to overtake us.
>>>>
>>>> That means Detroit could play .515 ball and the Twins would have to
>>>> play .685 ball.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't look like a problem for the Twins. They have been playing .688
>>> ball since June. Their remaining schedule:
>>>
>>> EASY
>>> 7 games at home vs. KC
>>> 3 at Tampa Bay
>>> 3 at Baltimore
>>> 4 at Cleveland
>>>
>>> Out of those seventeen games, I say they win 12 of them.
>>>
>>> NOT EASY
>>> 3 at NY Yankees
>>> 4 at home vs. Tigers
>>> 3 at home vs. Oakland
>>> 3 at Boston
>>> 3 at home vs. White Sox (last three games of the year)
>>>
>>> Out of those sixteen games, I say they win 10 of them, including 3 out
>>> of 4 from Detroit.
>>> This would put the Twins at 98-64.
>>>
>>> Tigers remaining schedule:
>>>
>>> 3 at NY Yankees
>>> 3 at home vs. Angels
>>> 3 at home vs. Mariners
>>> 4 at Minnesota
>>> 2 at home vs. Texas
>>> 3 at home vs. Baltimore
>>> 3 at White Sox
>>> 1 at Baltimore
>>> 3 at KC
>>> 3 at home vs. Toronto
>>> 3 at home vs. KC
>>>
>>> Do you see 16 wins in there? If so, it would put the Tigers at 98-64.
>>>
>>> Based on head-to-head matchups Detroit would take the AL Central.
>>
>> So tough to say. Detroit has been in a death spiral for the last several
>> weeks frittering away a massive lead while a hotshot young upstart team
>> in the division that started poorly is closing the gap at a sprint...
>
> The Tigers are up 5 now. They were up 5 a month ago. What was their
> "massive" lead several week ago? Six? Six and a half? And now they've
> frittered it away from a massive six to miniscule five? HOLY SHIT THE SKY
> IS FALLING!! DEATH SPIRAL!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
>
> Get a grip.
Methinks he doth protest too much.
brink >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 2298
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"fungod" <throwinglighteningbolts RemoveThis @yourhead.org> wrote in message
news:1QHIg.23942$uH6.12035@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "brink" <brink RemoveThis @invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4lgp0pF1ru3sU1@individual.net...
>>
>> <powrwrap RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1156774532.753863.74210@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Brian Matthews wrote:
>>>
>>>> Twins overtook Sox last night for 2nd place. So with the latest update
>>>> on playing .500 ball?
>>>>
>>>> If the Tigers go 17-16 in their last 33 games, the Twins would need to
>>>> go 24-11 in their last 35 games to overtake us.
>>>>
>>>> That means Detroit could play .515 ball and the Twins would have to
>>>> play .685 ball.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't look like a problem for the Twins. They have been playing .688
>>> ball since June. Their remaining schedule:
>>>
>>> EASY
>>> 7 games at home vs. KC
>>> 3 at Tampa Bay
>>> 3 at Baltimore
>>> 4 at Cleveland
>>>
>>> Out of those seventeen games, I say they win 12 of them.
>>>
>>> NOT EASY
>>> 3 at NY Yankees
>>> 4 at home vs. Tigers
>>> 3 at home vs. Oakland
>>> 3 at Boston
>>> 3 at home vs. White Sox (last three games of the year)
>>>
>>> Out of those sixteen games, I say they win 10 of them, including 3 out
>>> of 4 from Detroit.
>>> This would put the Twins at 98-64.
>>>
>>> Tigers remaining schedule:
>>>
>>> 3 at NY Yankees
>>> 3 at home vs. Angels
>>> 3 at home vs. Mariners
>>> 4 at Minnesota
>>> 2 at home vs. Texas
>>> 3 at home vs. Baltimore
>>> 3 at White Sox
>>> 1 at Baltimore
>>> 3 at KC
>>> 3 at home vs. Toronto
>>> 3 at home vs. KC
>>>
>>> Do you see 16 wins in there? If so, it would put the Tigers at 98-64.
>>>
>>> Based on head-to-head matchups Detroit would take the AL Central.
>>
>> So tough to say. Detroit has been in a death spiral for the last several
>> weeks frittering away a massive lead while a hotshot young upstart team
>> in the division that started poorly is closing the gap at a sprint...
>
> The Tigers are up 5 now. They were up 5 a month ago. What was their
> "massive" lead several week ago? Six? Six and a half? And now they've
> frittered it away from a massive six to miniscule five? HOLY SHIT THE SKY
> IS FALLING!! DEATH SPIRAL!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
They did actually have the lead up to 9 1/2 or 10. Don't ask me when. I
don't feel like looking it up.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> Get a grip.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> but does
>> that remind you of anything by chance? Hint: 2005 AL Central, White Sox
>> and Indians... and we all know how that turned out.
>>
>> My guess is that the end result will be like you predicted, Alan.
>> Detroit will likely take the division. Minny's REAL race is for the WC,
>> and the way things appear today it seems that this is more or less a
>> 2-team competition between Twins and ChiSox, with Boston hanging around
>> as a dark horse. It is definitely worth noting the three teams's records
>> since the ASB:
>>
>> MIN 29-15
>> CHI 19-23
>> BOS 18-26
>>
>> I'll also throw in:
>>
>> NY 27-16
>> OAK 29-13
>>
>> Fortunately for the Twins, the two teams still in the race have both
>> really tripped up since the break, mainly because of pitching
>> breakdowns -- which is *exactly* what the Twins are going through.
>> Difference is, the Twins have still been mainly winning, almost
>> inexplicably, but that takes away credit from the offense, Johan, Radke,
>> and the bullpen, all of which have been very, very good.
>>
>> The key always seems to be those head-to-head matchups. Each
>> head-to-head is actually worth *2 whole games* in the standings, since
>> that is the net difference in the standings between losing to your
>> head-to-head opponent and winning.
>>
>> brink
>>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: May 21, 2006
Posts: 1198
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: May 21, 2006
Posts: 1198
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 552
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Brian Matthews" <noonecares DeleteThis @ddd.com> wrote in message
news:aln6f29hr17p410j5i4jisah6o16qdvuj5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:15:07 -0700, "brink" <brink DeleteThis @invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical records
>>heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already clinching
>>the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the marbles
>>of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
>>will
>>by far be the most importnat game of the season.
>
>
> Not if The Twins or Chicago would have won 2 more games in any other
> month. Those games were JUST as important. If either team had beat
> K.C. just 2 more times, that last "most important" game would be
> meaningless.
>
> Thus......each and every game has the same importance.
>
> Like I said, if it takes 99 wins to win a division, it doesn't matter
> whom they come against. The Twins could go 0-19 against Chicago and
> still walk away with the division title.
Sure. And a guy who hits with a .189/.211/.287 line could just so happen to
get all his hits close and late with RISP and have 30 game winning RBIs.
How likely do you suppose that is to happen?
brink >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 2298
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4lh646F1tht8U1@individual.net...
>
> "Brian Matthews" <noonecares.RemoveThis@ddd.com> wrote in message
> news:aln6f29hr17p410j5i4jisah6o16qdvuj5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:15:07 -0700, "brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical
>>>records
>>>heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already
>>>clinching
>>>the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the
>>>marbles
>>>of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
>>>will
>>>by far be the most importnat game of the season.
>>
>>
>> Not if The Twins or Chicago would have won 2 more games in any other
>> month. Those games were JUST as important. If either team had beat
>> K.C. just 2 more times, that last "most important" game would be
>> meaningless.
>>
>> Thus......each and every game has the same importance.
>>
>> Like I said, if it takes 99 wins to win a division, it doesn't matter
>> whom they come against. The Twins could go 0-19 against Chicago and
>> still walk away with the division title.
>
> Sure. And a guy who hits with a .189/.211/.287 line could just so happen
> to get all his hits close and late with RISP and have 30 game winning
> RBIs. How likely do you suppose that is to happen?
uhhhh, I'm sorry, but there is no logic to that. A win IS a win. You don't
get less than a "1" in the win column because your win came against KC, nor
do you get more than "1" for beating the Yankees. There is no other residual
effect of a win, as there can be with a base hit. A win is a win, and
nothing can change its value.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> brink
> >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 552
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Z4udnefOxL_T-G7ZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
> "brink" <brink DeleteThis @invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4lh646F1tht8U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Brian Matthews" <noonecares DeleteThis @ddd.com> wrote in message
>> news:aln6f29hr17p410j5i4jisah6o16qdvuj5@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:15:07 -0700, "brink" <brink DeleteThis @invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical
>>>>records
>>>>heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already
>>>>clinching
>>>>the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the
>>>>marbles
>>>>of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
>>>>will
>>>>by far be the most importnat game of the season.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not if The Twins or Chicago would have won 2 more games in any other
>>> month. Those games were JUST as important. If either team had beat
>>> K.C. just 2 more times, that last "most important" game would be
>>> meaningless.
>>>
>>> Thus......each and every game has the same importance.
>>>
>>> Like I said, if it takes 99 wins to win a division, it doesn't matter
>>> whom they come against. The Twins could go 0-19 against Chicago and
>>> still walk away with the division title.
>>
>> Sure. And a guy who hits with a .189/.211/.287 line could just so happen
>> to get all his hits close and late with RISP and have 30 game winning
>> RBIs. How likely do you suppose that is to happen?
>
>
> uhhhh, I'm sorry, but there is no logic to that. A win IS a win. You don't
> get less than a "1" in the win column because your win came against KC,
> nor do you get more than "1" for beating the Yankees. There is no other
> residual effect of a win, as there can be with a base hit. A win is a win,
> and nothing can change its value.
Hmmm. So you don't think there's marginal value in the fact that you can
accomplish two things with one win? I.e. giving yourself a W (and more to
the point, avoiding a L) while giving your top rival a L?
In other words, it doesn't matter to you whom your favorite team is playing?
I'm assuming your a Tigers fan, those 4 games vs Minny won't have any extra
signifcance, importance, or value?
I'm not debating absolute value, I'm debating relative/marginal value.
brink >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 2298
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"brink" <brink RemoveThis @invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4lh8olF1uf3oU1@individual.net...
>
> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Z4udnefOxL_T-G7ZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> "brink" <brink RemoveThis @invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:4lh646F1tht8U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Brian Matthews" <noonecares RemoveThis @ddd.com> wrote in message
>>> news:aln6f29hr17p410j5i4jisah6o16qdvuj5@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:15:07 -0700, "brink" <brink RemoveThis @invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical
>>>>>records
>>>>>heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already
>>>>>clinching
>>>>>the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the
>>>>>marbles
>>>>>of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
>>>>>will
>>>>>by far be the most importnat game of the season.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not if The Twins or Chicago would have won 2 more games in any other
>>>> month. Those games were JUST as important. If either team had beat
>>>> K.C. just 2 more times, that last "most important" game would be
>>>> meaningless.
>>>>
>>>> Thus......each and every game has the same importance.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said, if it takes 99 wins to win a division, it doesn't matter
>>>> whom they come against. The Twins could go 0-19 against Chicago and
>>>> still walk away with the division title.
>>>
>>> Sure. And a guy who hits with a .189/.211/.287 line could just so
>>> happen to get all his hits close and late with RISP and have 30 game
>>> winning RBIs. How likely do you suppose that is to happen?
>>
>>
>> uhhhh, I'm sorry, but there is no logic to that. A win IS a win. You
>> don't get less than a "1" in the win column because your win came against
>> KC, nor do you get more than "1" for beating the Yankees. There is no
>> other residual effect of a win, as there can be with a base hit. A win is
>> a win, and nothing can change its value.
>
> Hmmm. So you don't think there's marginal value in the fact that you can
> accomplish two things with one win? I.e. giving yourself a W (and more to
> the point, avoiding a L) while giving your top rival a L?
>
> In other words, it doesn't matter to you whom your favorite team is
> playing? I'm assuming your a Tigers fan, those 4 games vs Minny won't have
> any extra signifcance, importance, or value?
All that counts in the end is the number of wins.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> I'm not debating absolute value, I'm debating relative/marginal value.
>
> brink
> >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 552
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MuKdnTRN7_oxCW7ZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
> "brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4lh8olF1uf3oU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:Z4udnefOxL_T-G7ZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> "brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:4lh646F1tht8U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Brian Matthews" <noonecares.RemoveThis@ddd.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:aln6f29hr17p410j5i4jisah6o16qdvuj5@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:15:07 -0700, "brink" <brink.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I respectfully disagree; if the Twins and White Sox have identical
>>>>>>records
>>>>>>heading into the last game of the season with the Tigers already
>>>>>>clinching
>>>>>>the division and Minny and Chicago essentially playing for all the
>>>>>>marbles
>>>>>>of the wild card berth, then I submit that the last game of the season
>>>>>>will
>>>>>>by far be the most importnat game of the season.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if The Twins or Chicago would have won 2 more games in any other
>>>>> month. Those games were JUST as important. If either team had beat
>>>>> K.C. just 2 more times, that last "most important" game would be
>>>>> meaningless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus......each and every game has the same importance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, if it takes 99 wins to win a division, it doesn't matter
>>>>> whom they come against. The Twins could go 0-19 against Chicago and
>>>>> still walk away with the division title.
>>>>
>>>> Sure. And a guy who hits with a .189/.211/.287 line could just so
>>>> happen to get all his hits close and late with RISP and have 30 game
>>>> winning RBIs. How likely do you suppose that is to happen?
>>>
>>>
>>> uhhhh, I'm sorry, but there is no logic to that. A win IS a win. You
>>> don't get less than a "1" in the win column because your win came
>>> against KC, nor do you get more than "1" for beating the Yankees. There
>>> is no other residual effect of a win, as there can be with a base hit. A
>>> win is a win, and nothing can change its value.
>>
>> Hmmm. So you don't think there's marginal value in the fact that you can
>> accomplish two things with one win? I.e. giving yourself a W (and more
>> to the point, avoiding a L) while giving your top rival a L?
>>
>> In other words, it doesn't matter to you whom your favorite team is
>> playing? I'm assuming your a Tigers fan, those 4 games vs Minny won't
>> have any extra signifcance, importance, or value?
>
>
> All that counts in the end is the number of wins.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
brink >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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External
Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Twins now in 2nd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Brian Matthews" <noonecares DeleteThis @ddd.com> wrote in message
news:o5k6f29mt37otkf321548710lo6dupgd2c@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:52:29 GMT, "fungod"
> <throwinglighteningbolts DeleteThis @yourhead.org> wrote:
>
>>The Tigers are up 5 now. They were up 5 a month ago. What was their
>>"massive" lead several week ago? Six? Six and a half? And now they've
>>frittered it away from a massive six to miniscule five? HOLY SHIT THE SKY
>>IS
>>FALLING!! DEATH SPIRAL!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
>>
>>Get a grip.
>
>
> Actually.....they were up by 10 over Chicago and 10 1/2 over the Twins
> on August 7th. That was their high water mark of the year, 40 games
> over .500. Now they're 33 games over the .500 mark. Very good
> considering where they came from in past years, IMO.
I stand corrected. Still, 10 games head to 5 is hardly a death spiral; the
78 Red Sox was a death spiral. (14 game lead in July, 4 game lead in
September). And as you say, considering that they hadn't had a winning
record since about the Carter administration playing 700 ball all year was
very unrealistic. My own feeling is that the Tigs are like one of those
Warner Bros characters who've run off the end of the cliff and are pistoning
their legs whilst floating in the air. The only question is how long its
going to take them to look down. >> Stay informed about: Twins now in 2nd |
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