Torre remaining patient with Jones

In article <Df7Uj.42600$Iz3.40092@fe84.usenetserver.com>,
"zig zigalo" <ziggy1967.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe Schmoe wrote:
> > "TimV" <tvanwagoner_yourknickers_.DeleteThis@ou.edu> wrote in message
> > news:XI5Uj.1724$7k7.1678@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> >>
> >> "Tarkus" <karnevil9.DeleteThis@atlantabraves.net> wrote in message
> >> news:qOmdnRin356iVL3VnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >>> TimV wrote:
> >>>> You certainly have a different definition of svelte than I do.
> >>>
> >>> That Andruw didn't look like Karen Carpenter didn't make him fat.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. That makes me not fat. However, I certainly
> >> wouldn't refer to myself as "svelte" or "lithe". For the record, I
> >> don't think Andruw was fat last year.
> >>
> >> T
> >>
> > Being "not fat" is svelte on the Andruw curve.
>
> therefore, andruw 2007 = svelte.
> cecil fielder = chubby?

big boned.

dick
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

Dick Sidbury wrote:
> In article <Df7Uj.42600$Iz3.40092@fe84.usenetserver.com>,
> "zig zigalo" <ziggy1967.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe Schmoe wrote:
>>> "TimV" <tvanwagoner_yourknickers_.DeleteThis@ou.edu> wrote in message
>>> news:XI5Uj.1724$7k7.1678@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Tarkus" <karnevil9.DeleteThis@atlantabraves.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:qOmdnRin356iVL3VnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>>> TimV wrote:
>>>>>> You certainly have a different definition of svelte than I do.
>>>>>
>>>>> That Andruw didn't look like Karen Carpenter didn't make him fat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. That makes me not fat. However, I certainly
>>>> wouldn't refer to myself as "svelte" or "lithe". For the record, I
>>>> don't think Andruw was fat last year.
>>>>
>>>> T
>>>>
>>> Being "not fat" is svelte on the Andruw curve.
>>
>> therefore, andruw 2007 = svelte.
>> cecil fielder = chubby?
>
> big boned.
>
must.
not.
reply.

--
zig zigalo

"my mouse is up." dick gives us way too much information in the coffeeshop
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

In article <Yr8Uj.263$JI5.23@fe58.usenetserver.com>,
"zig zigalo" <ziggy1967.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dick Sidbury wrote:
> > In article <Df7Uj.42600$Iz3.40092@fe84.usenetserver.com>,
> > "zig zigalo" <ziggy1967.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Joe Schmoe wrote:
> >>> "TimV" <tvanwagoner_yourknickers_.RemoveThis@ou.edu> wrote in message
> >>> news:XI5Uj.1724$7k7.1678@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> >>>>
> >>>> "Tarkus" <karnevil9.RemoveThis@atlantabraves.net> wrote in message
> >>>> news:qOmdnRin356iVL3VnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >>>>> TimV wrote:
> >>>>>> You certainly have a different definition of svelte than I do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That Andruw didn't look like Karen Carpenter didn't make him fat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. That makes me not fat. However, I certainly
> >>>> wouldn't refer to myself as "svelte" or "lithe". For the record, I
> >>>> don't think Andruw was fat last year.
> >>>>
> >>>> T
> >>>>
> >>> Being "not fat" is svelte on the Andruw curve.
> >>
> >> therefore, andruw 2007 = svelte.
> >> cecil fielder = chubby?
> >
> > big boned.
> >
> must.
> not.
> reply.

You, sir, have a filthy mind.

dick
-- and that's OK
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

On May 5, 12:58 pm, Colin William <colintwill... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Tarkus wrote:
> > Slumping center fielder hitting .163 with one home run
> > By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com
>
> > DENVER -- The Dodgers have tried everything to get Andruw Jones
> > untracked, including having his eyes examined last month, manager Joe
> > Torre said on Sunday.
>
> > "Because he was struggling, we sent him for a check," said Torre. "No
> > issues."
>
> >http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2640174&v...
>
> It is a tricky position for them. They have a lot of money invested in
> Andruw, and since a hot span last summer he's now sucked for more than a
> few hundred PA, and looked bad doing it. How much time do you put into
> the guy? Granted, the alternative is Juan pierre, but Pierre is actually
> on a hot streak to start the season, just to complicate things more.

poor joe. <checks to make sure sam isn't listening> i'm glad andruw is
his problem now, not ours.

NL CF batting by OPS BA OBP SLG OPS
4 Mark Kotsay ATL .308 .362 .477 .839
....
12 Andruw Jones LAD .162 .273 .248 .520

NL CF fielding by ZR FP RF ZR
3 Mark Kotsay, Atl 1.000 2.53 .901
....
9 Andruw Jones, LA 1.000 2.64 .859
--
Ben
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

On May 7, 4:17 pm, Ben B <bblan....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 5, 12:58 pm, Colin William <colintwill....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tarkus wrote:
> > > Slumping center fielder hitting .163 with one home run
> > > By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com
>
> > > DENVER -- The Dodgers have tried everything to get Andruw Jones
> > > untracked, including having his eyes examined last month, manager Joe
> > > Torre said on Sunday.
>
> > > "Because he was struggling, we sent him for a check," said Torre. "No
> > > issues."
>
> > >http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2640174&v...
>
> > It is a tricky position for them. They have a lot of money invested in
> > Andruw, and since a hot span last summer he's now sucked for more than a
> > few hundred PA, and looked bad doing it. How much time do you put into
> > the guy? Granted, the alternative is Juan pierre, but Pierre is actually
> > on a hot streak to start the season, just to complicate things more.
>
> poor joe. <checks to make sure sam isn't listening> i'm glad andruw is
> his problem now, not ours.

I am and have always been a big Andruw fan, but I agree with you (and
I don't think you'll find a word from me complaining about the Braves
not resigning him for $18m.) Much like when the finances demanded
that the team cut loose Maddux I understand the logic, but that
doesn't mean I don't like them as a player. I don't know what the
hell is wrong with Andruw, and I'm more open to the option that he is
totally done as a player, but I still think people attributing his
decline on mental or psychological failures are whistling out of their
asses.

s/
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

"Ben B" <bblankin RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote
> poor joe. <checks to make sure sam isn't listening> i'm glad andruw is
> his problem now, not ours.
>
> NL CF batting by OPS BA OBP SLG OPS
> 4 Mark Kotsay ATL .308 .362 .477 .839
> ...
> 12 Andruw Jones LAD .162 .273 .248 .520
>
> NL CF fielding by ZR FP RF ZR
> 3 Mark Kotsay, Atl 1.000 2.53 .901
> ...
> 9 Andruw Jones, LA 1.000 2.64 .859

I'd been meaning to mention Kotsay's performance, he's been a good pickup so
far for Atlanta. Good thing too, with Schafer suspended and not a call-up
option anytime soon.

Andruw's crash is just mind-boggling.

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-C2EB97.21224206052008@individual.net...
> In article <Df7Uj.42600$Iz3.40092@fe84.usenetserver.com>,
> "zig zigalo" <ziggy1967.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe Schmoe wrote:
>> > "TimV" <tvanwagoner_yourknickers_.TakeThisOut@ou.edu> wrote in message
>> > news:XI5Uj.1724$7k7.1678@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> >>
>> >> "Tarkus" <karnevil9.TakeThisOut@atlantabraves.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:qOmdnRin356iVL3VnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> >>> TimV wrote:
>> >>>> You certainly have a different definition of svelte than I do.
>> >>>
>> >>> That Andruw didn't look like Karen Carpenter didn't make him fat.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. That makes me not fat. However, I certainly
>> >> wouldn't refer to myself as "svelte" or "lithe". For the record, I
>> >> don't think Andruw was fat last year.
>> >>
>> >> T
>> >>
>> > Being "not fat" is svelte on the Andruw curve.
>>
>> therefore, andruw 2007 = svelte.
>> cecil fielder = chubby?
>
> big boned.
>
How did he get those big bones in his ass?

(with thanks to Dom Irerra)
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

Karl Farbmann wrote:
> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DrJamesSidbury-C2EB97.21224206052008@individual.net...
>> In article <Df7Uj.42600$Iz3.40092@fe84.usenetserver.com>,
>> "zig zigalo" <ziggy1967 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe Schmoe wrote:
>>>> "TimV" <tvanwagoner_yourknickers_ RemoveThis @ou.edu> wrote in message
>>>> news:XI5Uj.1724$7k7.1678@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> "Tarkus" <karnevil9 RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:qOmdnRin356iVL3VnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>>>> TimV wrote:
>>>>>>> You certainly have a different definition of svelte than I do.
>>>>>> That Andruw didn't look like Karen Carpenter didn't make him fat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. That makes me not fat. However, I certainly
>>>>> wouldn't refer to myself as "svelte" or "lithe". For the record, I
>>>>> don't think Andruw was fat last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> T
>>>>>
>>>> Being "not fat" is svelte on the Andruw curve.
>>> therefore, andruw 2007 = svelte.
>>> cecil fielder = chubby?
>> big boned.
>>
> How did he get those big bones in his ass?

Turkish baths?

> (with thanks to Dom Irerra)

Very funny guy. His uncensored show he used to have on Showtime was one
of the funniest things ever.

--
Now Playing: [nothing]

What Braves fans listen to: http://www.last.fm/group/Atlanta%2BBraves
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

On Thu, 8 May 2008 07:41:33 -0700 (PDT), Sam Hutcheson
<samh.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On May 7, 4:17 pm, Ben B <bblan....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 5, 12:58 pm, Colin William <colintwill....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Tarkus wrote:
>> > > Slumping center fielder hitting .163 with one home run
>> > > By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com
>>
>> > > DENVER -- The Dodgers have tried everything to get Andruw Jones
>> > > untracked, including having his eyes examined last month, manager Joe
>> > > Torre said on Sunday.
>>
>> > > "Because he was struggling, we sent him for a check," said Torre. "No
>> > > issues."
>>
>> > >http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2640174&v...
>>
>> > It is a tricky position for them. They have a lot of money invested in
>> > Andruw, and since a hot span last summer he's now sucked for more than a
>> > few hundred PA, and looked bad doing it. How much time do you put into
>> > the guy? Granted, the alternative is Juan pierre, but Pierre is actually
>> > on a hot streak to start the season, just to complicate things more.
>>
>> poor joe. <checks to make sure sam isn't listening> i'm glad andruw is
>> his problem now, not ours.
>
>I am and have always been a big Andruw fan, but I agree with you (and
>I don't think you'll find a word from me complaining about the Braves
>not resigning him for $18m.) Much like when the finances demanded
>that the team cut loose Maddux I understand the logic, but that
>doesn't mean I don't like them as a player. I don't know what the
>hell is wrong with Andruw, and I'm more open to the option that he is
>totally done as a player, but I still think people attributing his
>decline on mental or psychological failures are whistling out of their
>asses.
>
>s/
What other options are there?
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

"Sam Hutcheson" <samh.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:79b0f525-bf8b-4beb-9af0-dffc752abe5d@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 4:17 pm, Ben B <bblan....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 5, 12:58 pm, Colin William <colintwill....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tarkus wrote:
> > > Slumping center fielder hitting .163 with one home run
> > > By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com
>
> > > DENVER -- The Dodgers have tried everything to get Andruw Jones
> > > untracked, including having his eyes examined last month, manager Joe
> > > Torre said on Sunday.
>
> > > "Because he was struggling, we sent him for a check," said Torre. "No
> > > issues."
>
> > >http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2640174&v...
>
> > It is a tricky position for them. They have a lot of money invested in
> > Andruw, and since a hot span last summer he's now sucked for more than a
> > few hundred PA, and looked bad doing it. How much time do you put into
> > the guy? Granted, the alternative is Juan pierre, but Pierre is actually
> > on a hot streak to start the season, just to complicate things more.
>
> poor joe. <checks to make sure sam isn't listening> i'm glad andruw is
> his problem now, not ours.

I am and have always been a big Andruw fan, but I agree with you (and
I don't think you'll find a word from me complaining about the Braves
not resigning him for $18m.) Much like when the finances demanded
that the team cut loose Maddux I understand the logic, but that
doesn't mean I don't like them as a player. I don't know what the
hell is wrong with Andruw, and I'm more open to the option that he is
totally done as a player, but I still think people attributing his
decline on mental or psychological failures are whistling out of their
asses.

s/

OK, I'll take a shot at a suggested cure for Andruw. TP got him to
radically change his batting stance, basically widening the stance to make
his swing quicker by taking the stride out of the swing. At the same time,
for whatever reason Andruw started laying off the low outside stuff. The
unfortunate by-product of the change in the stance and swing is that the
physics of reaching the inside high fastball from that stance makes a
positive outcome for the batter almost impossible (think about trying to do
that without being able to open up the front side of your body). What has
happened is that pitchers have been wearing him out on the high and inside
stuff; that was happening while he was still here. What has also started to
happen, IMO, is that Andruw has become more vulnerable than ever to the low
outside stuff, since he's now anxious to swing at anything that isn't high
and tight. From his current stance, he can't reach the low outside stuff,
regardless of whether it's hard or off-speed. Long story short, he can only
hit major mistake pitches; the minor mistake pitches that most hitters make
a living off of get by him. He's always been a head-case at the plate, now
he's a major one.

I'd give him back his stride and his ability to step in the bucket, opening
up his left side, and let him tee off on the high and tight stuff for a
while until the book on how to pitch to him changes. By then he will have
probably yanked about 10 homers into the left field bleachers. He's shown
that he can only hit .260 this way, but he'll also hit 35-40 homers along
the way. Let him get some confidence back, then perhaps you might want to
shorten the stride a bit, if you're a big gambler.

YMMV, of course.

--
Bob Horton
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

>Andruw's crash is just mind-boggling.

I've seen it before. Howard Johnson had an even greater dropoff between
1991 and 1992. By 1993, he was done. No hitter lost "it" faster than
HoJo.

--
"Ever since the 60's, it's been all downhill" - Keith Hernandez, on how
far we've sunk as a culture
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones 

""Chris ®"" <headbanger11421.DeleteThis@webtv.net> wrote...
> >Andruw's crash is just mind-boggling.
>
> I've seen it before. Howard Johnson had an even greater dropoff between
> 1991 and 1992. By 1993, he was done. No hitter lost "it" faster than
> HoJo.

Interesting comparison.

--AJ: dropped from three seasons (age 27-29) of 112, 136,126 OPS+ to 88 to
47 (so far in 2008)
--HoJo: dropped from three seasons (age 28-30) of 169, 106, 145 to 91, 98,
77, 83

And anotehr notable brave:
--Dale Murphy: dropped from three seasons (age 29-31) of 152, 121, 157 to
106, 89, 99, 103, 26 (62 AB), 0 (42 AB)

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Torre remaining patient with Jones