Swept

On Apr 9, 4:16 pm, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Triple" <rhag....TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:0XbLj.2420$%41.359@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...> <slump>
>
> > Wait til next year.
>
> > <kidding AG only kidding. I swear>
>
> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce runs
> in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had for a
> number of seasons now. It's becoming a cultural trait. I understand, that
> seems impossible considering the turnover in everything from GM's to
> managers, to players, to trainers and clubhouse attendants, but there you
> have it.
> Unless and until Martin and Jones start hitting for average and power this
> is going to be a struggle.
>
> But, again: it's early.
>
> S.
>
> > --
> > "Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard

Martin is starting to come around, he doesn't look as lost at the
plate as he did at the start. Jones I'm figuring on another sub 250
year and maybe a few dingers. On a good note Kemp is also starting to
come around and would have had another hit if it hadn't of been for a
great play, he's also starting to be more patient. Too Ethier is
showing why he is/should start over JP and Raffy and Loney are doing
well. So I'm not really worried about the hitting. The pitching should
come around soon, but it usually takes a pitcher longer to get it
together than hitters but if Torre keeps on waiting to pull a SP out,
or pulls him after the damage is done it might be a long year.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Sam Culotta" <culotta_art.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:G7cLj.21838$Ah1.5918@trnddc08...
>
> "Triple" <rhager4.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:0XbLj.2420$%41.359@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> <slump>
>>
>> Wait til next year.
>>
>> <kidding AG only kidding. I swear>
>>
> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce
> runs in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had
> for a number of seasons now. It's becoming a cultural trait. I
> understand, that seems impossible considering the turnover in everything
> from GM's to managers, to players, to trainers and clubhouse attendants,
> but there you have it.
> Unless and until Martin and Jones start hitting for average and power this
> is going to be a struggle.
>
> But, again: it's early.
>
> S.
>
>
>> --
>> "Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard
>>
>
>

But it is getting later every day!
EH?
Amish
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Sam Culotta" ha scritto...

> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce
> runs in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had
> for a number of seasons now.

That's true, but the key play today was the error on the missed double play.
Kuroda was cruising along before that.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8a0e1ce0-c9fe-452c-88ae-8cbc46ff8fc9@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 9, 4:16 pm, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Triple" <rhag....TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:0XbLj.2420$%41.359@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...> <slump>
>>
>> > Wait til next year.
>>
>> > <kidding AG only kidding. I swear>
>>
>> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce
>> runs
>> in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had for a
>> number of seasons now. It's becoming a cultural trait. I understand,
>> that
>> seems impossible considering the turnover in everything from GM's to
>> managers, to players, to trainers and clubhouse attendants, but there you
>> have it.
>> Unless and until Martin and Jones start hitting for average and power
>> this
>> is going to be a struggle.
>>
>> But, again: it's early.
>>
>> S.
>>
>> > --
>> > "Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard
>
> Martin is starting to come around, he doesn't look as lost at the
> plate as he did at the start. Jones I'm figuring on another sub 250
> year and maybe a few dingers. On a good note Kemp is also starting to
> come around and would have had another hit if it hadn't of been for a
> great play, he's also starting to be more patient. Too Ethier is
> showing why he is/should start over JP and Raffy and Loney are doing
> well. So I'm not really worried about the hitting. The pitching should
> come around soon, but it usually takes a pitcher longer to get it
> together than hitters but if Torre keeps on waiting to pull a SP out,
> or pulls him after the damage is done it might be a long year.

I had to laugh at that last comment considering a lot of the damage in
previous
games came in the first inning. He would have had to pull him after the
first hit.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

On Apr 10, 7:17 am, "AguaGirl" <some....RemoveThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:8a0e1ce0-c9fe-452c-88ae-8cbc46ff8fc9@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Apr 9, 4:16 pm, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_....RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> "Triple" <rhag....RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:0XbLj.2420$%41.359@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...> <slump>
>
> >> > Wait til next year.
>
> >> > <kidding AG only kidding. I swear>
>
> >> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce
> >> runs
> >> in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had for a
> >> number of seasons now. It's becoming a cultural trait. I understand,
> >> that
> >> seems impossible considering the turnover in everything from GM's to
> >> managers, to players, to trainers and clubhouse attendants, but there you
> >> have it.
> >> Unless and until Martin and Jones start hitting for average and power
> >> this
> >> is going to be a struggle.
>
> >> But, again: it's early.
>
> >> S.
>
> >> > --
> >> > "Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard
>
> > Martin is starting to come around, he doesn't look as lost at the
> > plate as he did at the start. Jones I'm figuring on another sub 250
> > year and maybe a few dingers. On a good note Kemp is also starting to
> > come around and would have had another hit if it hadn't of been for a
> > great play, he's also starting to be more patient. Too Ethier is
> > showing why he is/should start over JP and Raffy and Loney are doing
> > well. So I'm not really worried about the hitting. The pitching should
> > come around soon, but it usually takes a pitcher longer to get it
> > together than hitters but if Torre keeps on waiting to pull a SP out,
> > or pulls him after the damage is done it might be a long year.
>
> I had to laugh at that last comment considering a lot of the damage in
> previous
> games came in the first inning. He would have had to pull him after the
> first hit.

Didn't watch the game yesterday? Kuroda was due up first in the 7th so
Torre left him in so he could pinch hit for him rather have to either
'waste' a pitcher for 2 outs or let the relief bat. At the time the
team was ahead 3-2, after Kuroda got into trouble, couldn't get out of
it and Torre replaced him after the damage was done. Very grady
littleish move.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5b308076-72cb-4ab9-8826-cedacea7d1b2@n14g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 10, 7:17 am, "AguaGirl" <some... DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote:
>> "Mike De Leon" <lazl... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:8a0e1ce0-c9fe-452c-88ae-8cbc46ff8fc9@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 9, 4:16 pm, "Sam Culotta" <culotta_... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> "Triple" <rhag... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:0XbLj.2420$%41.359@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...> <slump>
>>
>> >> > Wait til next year.
>>
>> >> > <kidding AG only kidding. I swear>
>>
>> >> It's early. (Thank your favorite Deity).. but this inablity to produce
>> >> runs
>> >> in key situations is troublesome. It's the same problem they've had
>> >> for a
>> >> number of seasons now. It's becoming a cultural trait. I understand,
>> >> that
>> >> seems impossible considering the turnover in everything from GM's to
>> >> managers, to players, to trainers and clubhouse attendants, but there
>> >> you
>> >> have it.
>> >> Unless and until Martin and Jones start hitting for average and power
>> >> this
>> >> is going to be a struggle.
>>
>> >> But, again: it's early.
>>
>> >> S.
>>
>> >> > --
>> >> > "Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard
>>
>> > Martin is starting to come around, he doesn't look as lost at the
>> > plate as he did at the start. Jones I'm figuring on another sub 250
>> > year and maybe a few dingers. On a good note Kemp is also starting to
>> > come around and would have had another hit if it hadn't of been for a
>> > great play, he's also starting to be more patient. Too Ethier is
>> > showing why he is/should start over JP and Raffy and Loney are doing
>> > well. So I'm not really worried about the hitting. The pitching should
>> > come around soon, but it usually takes a pitcher longer to get it
>> > together than hitters but if Torre keeps on waiting to pull a SP out,
>> > or pulls him after the damage is done it might be a long year.
>>
>> I had to laugh at that last comment considering a lot of the damage in
>> previous
>> games came in the first inning. He would have had to pull him after the
>> first hit.
>
> Didn't watch the game yesterday? Kuroda was due up first in the 7th so
> Torre left him in so he could pinch hit for him rather have to either
> 'waste' a pitcher for 2 outs or let the relief bat. At the time the
> team was ahead 3-2, after Kuroda got into trouble, couldn't get out of
> it and Torre replaced him after the damage was done. Very grady
> littleish move.

Yes...which is why I said PREVIOUS games. Your comment sounded like Torre
had done it more than once. Maybe he was just so excited to get a quality
start that he forgot. It was the first one in a while.

AG
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

> I had to laugh at that last comment considering a lot of the damage in
> previous
> games came in the first inning. He would have had to pull him after the
> first hit.

Injecting facts into the conversation can not be productive. Let us stick to
our own morally superior subjective judgments please.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

> Didn't watch the game yesterday? Kuroda was due up first in the 7th so
> Torre left him in so he could pinch hit for him rather have to either
> 'waste' a pitcher for 2 outs or let the relief bat. At the time the
> team was ahead 3-2, after Kuroda got into trouble, couldn't get out of
> it and Torre replaced him after the damage was done. Very grady
> littleish move.


It wasn't just Grady Little. Lasorda did the same thing. Every manager tries
the same thing, so they're always risking the chance of getting burnt. If
you pored over the box scores each year and threw a dollar in the jar every
time the tactic failed, you'd have funds for a great nite on the town during
the World Series. The truest truism in baseball is: "Everything backfires."

hh
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Hal Henry" <ccurrents.RemoveThis@peak.org> wrote in message
news:C4242F84.25BF9%ccurrents@peak.org...
>
>
>> Didn't watch the game yesterday? Kuroda was due up first in the 7th so
>> Torre left him in so he could pinch hit for him rather have to either
>> 'waste' a pitcher for 2 outs or let the relief bat. At the time the
>> team was ahead 3-2, after Kuroda got into trouble, couldn't get out of
>> it and Torre replaced him after the damage was done. Very grady
>> littleish move.
>
>
> It wasn't just Grady Little. Lasorda did the same thing. Every manager
> tries
> the same thing, so they're always risking the chance of getting burnt. If
> you pored over the box scores each year and threw a dollar in the jar
> every
> time the tactic failed, you'd have funds for a great nite on the town
> during
> the World Series. The truest truism in baseball is: "Everything
> backfires."
>
> hh
>

The problem is the upside is a pinch hitter in the pitcher's spot. Assuming
you have a 300 BA off the bench and assuming the average pitcher has a BA of
100, you're only going to get a hit you otherwise wouldn't have every 1 out
of 5 attempts. My guess is the real numbers are like 150 and 250, which
makes 1 out of 10 times you'll get a hit you wouldn't have otherwise. It
doesn't seem worth the risk to me considering the downside is almost always
giving up a run, if not 2 or 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

Watch out triple, the giants are right on your tail!
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

"Triple" <rhager4 DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kpCLj.2433$h75.915@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Hal Henry" <ccurrents DeleteThis @peak.org> wrote in message
> news:C4242F84.25BF9%ccurrents@peak.org...
>>
>>
>>> Didn't watch the game yesterday? Kuroda was due up first in the 7th so
>>> Torre left him in so he could pinch hit for him rather have to either
>>> 'waste' a pitcher for 2 outs or let the relief bat. At the time the
>>> team was ahead 3-2, after Kuroda got into trouble, couldn't get out of
>>> it and Torre replaced him after the damage was done. Very grady
>>> littleish move.
>>
>>
>> It wasn't just Grady Little. Lasorda did the same thing. Every manager
>> tries
>> the same thing, so they're always risking the chance of getting burnt. If
>> you pored over the box scores each year and threw a dollar in the jar
>> every
>> time the tactic failed, you'd have funds for a great nite on the town
>> during
>> the World Series. The truest truism in baseball is: "Everything
>> backfires."
>>
>> hh
>>
>
> The problem is the upside is a pinch hitter in the pitcher's spot.
> Assuming you have a 300 BA off the bench and assuming the average pitcher
> has a BA of 100, you're only going to get a hit you otherwise wouldn't
> have every 1 out of 5 attempts. My guess is the real numbers are like 150
> and 250, which makes 1 out of 10 times you'll get a hit you wouldn't have
> otherwise. It doesn't seem worth the risk to me considering the downside
> is almost always giving up a run, if not 2 or 3.

Don't look at BA, look at OBP. The idea is to get the lead off hitter on
base. And
then assuming you do, would you pinch run for the pitcher or would you hope
he
could help get himself around the bases the same way a PH does.

This is all hindsight anyway. Lets say he did yank him the minute it looked
like he
was in trouble...and the relief pitcher gave up a run..so you used another
relief pitcher
to get out of the inning and then you yank him for a pitch hitter and they
still go on to
lose the game. We would be howling about how Torre should have let Kuroda
finish off
the inning. He had been pitching well up to then, slightest sign of trouble
and you yank him?
At this rate the BP will be toast by the AS break. This is the right time
of year to learn who
can pitch out of trouble and who needs a really rested bull pen.

AG
 >> Stay informed about: Swept 

> Don't look at BA, look at OBP. The idea is to get the lead off hitter on
> base. And
> then assuming you do, would you pinch run for the pitcher or would you
> hope he
> could help get himself around the bases the same way a PH does.
>
> This is all hindsight anyway. Lets say he did yank him the minute it
> looked like he
> was in trouble...and the relief pitcher gave up a run..so you used another
> relief pitcher
> to get out of the inning and then you yank him for a pitch hitter and they
> still go on to
> lose the game. We would be howling about how Torre should have let Kuroda
> finish off
> the inning. He had been pitching well up to then, slightest sign of
> trouble and you yank him?
> At this rate the BP will be toast by the AS break. This is the right time
> of year to learn who
> can pitch out of trouble and who needs a really rested bull pen.
>
> AG

I wasn't arguing about any particular move just discussing this strategy in
general. Even if the OBP is 1, You are trading the risk of several runs
versus a man on base. Even then the risk to reward ratio doesn't look that
great.
 >> Stay informed about: Swept