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Next: Los Angeles Dodgers: Why the arrogant obstinacy of Hillary ? ++**
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Since: Jun 28, 2003 Posts: 302
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:02 pm
Post subject: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>la-dodgers (more info?)
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John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last year
to this.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospect-ret
Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in 22
innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
if I had put him in the 2002 book.
Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
upside.
Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with a
19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could struggle
if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
that some adjustments could be needed.
Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas, with
a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a bit,
his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
2005 book, and wrote the following:
"My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps in
relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year, and
then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's been
around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result of
1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging health
problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year is
genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has been
better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005. >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 390
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last year
> to this.
>
> http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospect-ret
>
> Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
> out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
> school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
> mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
> his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in 22
> innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
> control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
> if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>
> Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
> 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
> Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
> while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
> his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
> wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
> upside.
>
> Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
> 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
> fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
> range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
> him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with a
> 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
> impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could struggle
> if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
> first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
> also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
> that some adjustments could be needed.
>
> Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
> innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas, with
> a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a bit,
> his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
> general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
> 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>
> "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
> continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
> level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
> he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps in
> relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>
> More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
> Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
> pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
> Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
> and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year, and
> then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's been
> around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>
> In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result of
> 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging health
> problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
> adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year is
> genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
> factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has been
> better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
> out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
> Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
> year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005. >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Jun 28, 2003 Posts: 302
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On May 17, 1:55 pm, "AguaGirl" <some....DeleteThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
> Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
>
> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last year
> > to this.
>
> >http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospec...
>
> > Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
> > out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
> > school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
> > mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
> > his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in 22
> > innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
> > control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
> > if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>
> > Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
> > 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
> > Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
> > while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
> > his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
> > wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
> > upside.
>
> > Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
> > 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
> > fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
> > range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
> > him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with a
> > 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
> > impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could struggle
> > if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
> > first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
> > also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
> > that some adjustments could be needed.
>
> > Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
> > innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas, with
> > a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a bit,
> > his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
> > general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
> > 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>
> > "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
> > continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
> > level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
> > he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps in
> > relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>
> > More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
> > Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
> > pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
> > Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
> > and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year, and
> > then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's been
> > around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>
> > In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result of
> > 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging health
> > problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
> > adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year is
> > genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
> > factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has been
> > better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
> > out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
> > Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
> > year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005.
Oh oh, I think hell just froze over ; ^) That was the main reason I
posted it. It seems like all the so called 'experts' are predicting a
Kershaw call-up. I'd hate to see it. The team needs a 5th starter but
not at the expense of ruinning a possible futre star. >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 75
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:35 am
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:58fdb6e3-a2bc-4721-9f75-0d14e64d585d@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 1:55 pm, "AguaGirl" <some... DeleteThis @somewhere.net> wrote:
>> This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
>> Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
>>
>> "Mike De Leon" <lazl... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last year
>> > to this.
>>
>> >http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospec...
>>
>> > Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
>> > out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
>> > school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
>> > mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
>> > his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in 22
>> > innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
>> > control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
>> > if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>>
>> > Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
>> > 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
>> > Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
>> > while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
>> > his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
>> > wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
>> > upside.
>>
>> > Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
>> > 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
>> > fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
>> > range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
>> > him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with a
>> > 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
>> > impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could struggle
>> > if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
>> > first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
>> > also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
>> > that some adjustments could be needed.
>>
>> > Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
>> > innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas, with
>> > a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a bit,
>> > his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
>> > general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
>> > 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>>
>> > "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
>> > continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
>> > level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
>> > he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps in
>> > relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>>
>> > More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
>> > Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
>> > pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
>> > Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
>> > and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year, and
>> > then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's been
>> > around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>>
>> > In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result of
>> > 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging health
>> > problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
>> > adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year is
>> > genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
>> > factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has been
>> > better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
>> > out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
>> > Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
>> > year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005.
>
> Oh oh, I think hell just froze over ; ^) That was the main reason I
> posted it. It seems like all the so called 'experts' are predicting a
> Kershaw call-up. I'd hate to see it. The team needs a 5th starter but
> not at the expense of ruinning a possible futre star.
I heard that Jackson would not listen to the coaches.they could not tell him
anything.I doubt Kershaw is the same way. >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Jun 28, 2003 Posts: 302
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:51 am
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On May 17, 11:35 pm, "CM" <IWANTTOBESOMEB....RemoveThis@SOMEWHERE.COM> wrote:
> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:58fdb6e3-a2bc-4721-9f75-0d14e64d585d@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 1:55 pm, "AguaGirl" <some....RemoveThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> >> This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
> >> Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
>
> >> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last year
> >> > to this.
>
> >> >http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospec...
>
> >> > Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
> >> > out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
> >> > school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
> >> > mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
> >> > his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in 22
> >> > innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
> >> > control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
> >> > if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>
> >> > Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
> >> > 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
> >> > Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
> >> > while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
> >> > his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
> >> > wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
> >> > upside.
>
> >> > Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
> >> > 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
> >> > fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
> >> > range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
> >> > him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with a
> >> > 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
> >> > impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could struggle
> >> > if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
> >> > first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
> >> > also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
> >> > that some adjustments could be needed.
>
> >> > Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
> >> > innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas, with
> >> > a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a bit,
> >> > his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
> >> > general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
> >> > 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>
> >> > "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
> >> > continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
> >> > level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
> >> > he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps in
> >> > relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>
> >> > More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
> >> > Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
> >> > pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
> >> > Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
> >> > and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year, and
> >> > then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's been
> >> > around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>
> >> > In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result of
> >> > 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging health
> >> > problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
> >> > adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year is
> >> > genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
> >> > factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has been
> >> > better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
> >> > out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
> >> > Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
> >> > year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005.
>
> > Oh oh, I think hell just froze over ; ^) That was the main reason I
> > posted it. It seems like all the so called 'experts' are predicting a
> > Kershaw call-up. I'd hate to see it. The team needs a 5th starter but
> > not at the expense of ruinning a possible futre star.
>
> I heard that Jackson would not listen to the coaches.they could not tell him
> anything.I doubt Kershaw is the same way.
They started screwing around with Jackson's delivery and wanted him to
pitch differently, IIRC they wanted him not to rely on his curve as
much but on his fast ball more. His control kept getting worse so he
finally told them no more they weren't helping and tried to get back
to the way he used to pitch but couldn't find it, at least not till
now apparently. Just because a guy is labeled a pitching coach or
instructor doesn't mean he knows the best way for everyone to pitch,
they should have left Jackson's mech's alone as well as not rushing
him up to the show. A good pitching coach helps a pitcher find his
mechs not change them to suit him or the teams idea of what they
should be. He turned 21 on the night he went against RJ, and beat him
I might add so apparently his mechs were good for that and the 6 ther
games he started in show that year. >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 390
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mike De Leon" <lazlo98 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:300a05fa-5adf-49b1-aa6a-4eb2a7c9f1c0@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 11:35 pm, "CM" <IWANTTOBESOMEB... RemoveThis @SOMEWHERE.COM> wrote:
>> "Mike De Leon" <lazl... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:58fdb6e3-a2bc-4721-9f75-0d14e64d585d@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 17, 1:55 pm, "AguaGirl" <some... RemoveThis @somewhere.net> wrote:
>> >> This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
>> >> Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
>>
>> >> "Mike De Leon" <lazl... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last
>> >> > year
>> >> > to this.
>>
>> >> >http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospec...
>>
>> >> > Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
>> >> > out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
>> >> > school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
>> >> > mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
>> >> > his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in
>> >> > 22
>> >> > innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
>> >> > control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
>> >> > if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>>
>> >> > Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
>> >> > 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
>> >> > Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
>> >> > while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
>> >> > his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
>> >> > wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
>> >> > upside.
>>
>> >> > Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
>> >> > 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
>> >> > fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
>> >> > range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
>> >> > him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with
>> >> > a
>> >> > 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
>> >> > impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could
>> >> > struggle
>> >> > if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
>> >> > first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
>> >> > also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
>> >> > that some adjustments could be needed.
>>
>> >> > Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
>> >> > innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas,
>> >> > with
>> >> > a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a
>> >> > bit,
>> >> > his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
>> >> > general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
>> >> > 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>>
>> >> > "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
>> >> > continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
>> >> > level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
>> >> > he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps
>> >> > in
>> >> > relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>>
>> >> > More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
>> >> > Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
>> >> > pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
>> >> > Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
>> >> > and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year,
>> >> > and
>> >> > then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's
>> >> > been
>> >> > around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>>
>> >> > In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result
>> >> > of
>> >> > 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging
>> >> > health
>> >> > problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
>> >> > adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year
>> >> > is
>> >> > genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
>> >> > factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has
>> >> > been
>> >> > better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
>> >> > out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
>> >> > Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
>> >> > year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005.
>>
>> > Oh oh, I think hell just froze over ; ^) That was the main reason I
>> > posted it. It seems like all the so called 'experts' are predicting a
>> > Kershaw call-up. I'd hate to see it. The team needs a 5th starter but
>> > not at the expense of ruinning a possible futre star.
>>
>> I heard that Jackson would not listen to the coaches.they could not tell
>> him
>> anything.I doubt Kershaw is the same way.
>
> They started screwing around with Jackson's delivery and wanted him to
> pitch differently, IIRC they wanted him not to rely on his curve as
> much but on his fast ball more. His control kept getting worse so he
> finally told them no more they weren't helping and tried to get back
> to the way he used to pitch but couldn't find it, at least not till
> now apparently. Just because a guy is labeled a pitching coach or
> instructor doesn't mean he knows the best way for everyone to pitch,
> they should have left Jackson's mech's alone as well as not rushing
> him up to the show. A good pitching coach helps a pitcher find his
> mechs not change them to suit him or the teams idea of what they
> should be. He turned 21 on the night he went against RJ, and beat him
> I might add so apparently his mechs were good for that and the 6 ther
> games he started in show that year.
I wasn't there so I don't really know how it went down <g>...but...keep in
mind that the rookie pitchers often have an advantage over the hitters. No
one had seen him before except in scouting reports. To be a starter you
have to have more than two pitches and you absolutely can't rely on one of
them to get you out of trouble all the time. Jackson didn't have time to
develop as a pitcher. He was fast..very fast...but that's not enough to be
effective for very long. Maybe they messed with his mechanics while trying
to teach him a slider or to get more movement on his fastball. All I know
is the Dodgers passed on a lot of trades because they didn't want to give up
Jackson (and most of us agreed) and the guy never did deliver on the promise
of his talent. Not for the Dodgers and not for anyone since then. He may
still, he's young, but that boat done sailed from the Dodgers dock. They
need to keep Kershaw pitching in an arena where he can afford to fail while
he works on other pitches.
AG >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Jun 28, 2003 Posts: 302
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:29 am
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On May 18, 7:26 am, "AguaGirl" <some....DeleteThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:300a05fa-5adf-49b1-aa6a-4eb2a7c9f1c0@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 11:35 pm, "CM" <IWANTTOBESOMEB....DeleteThis@SOMEWHERE.COM> wrote:
> >> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:58fdb6e3-a2bc-4721-9f75-0d14e64d585d@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On May 17, 1:55 pm, "AguaGirl" <some....DeleteThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> >> >> This is a good read for anyone who thinks the Dodgers should bring up
> >> >> Kershaw to fill the 5th starter role.
>
> >> >> "Mike De Leon" <lazl....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:91ebbf30-19f6-416a-a497-2a6ca9447526@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > John Sickels looks at Edwin Jackson and his turn around from last
> >> >> > year
> >> >> > to this.
>
> >> >> >http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/5/16/519304/edwin-jackson-prospec...
>
> >> >> > Edwin Jackson was drafted by the Dodgers in the sixth round in 2001,
> >> >> > out of high school in Columbus, Georgia. A two-way player in high
> >> >> > school, he was considered raw but promising by the Dodgers on the
> >> >> > mound and they made him a full-time pitcher. He posted a 2.45 ERA in
> >> >> > his pro debut in the Gulf Coast League, with a 23/19 K/BB ratio in
> >> >> > 22
> >> >> > innings, showing above-average velocity but needing to improve his
> >> >> > control. He would rate as a "Grade C with higher potential" prospect
> >> >> > if I had put him in the 2002 book.
>
> >> >> > Jackson took a big step forward in '02, posting a 1.98 ERA with a
> >> >> > 85/33 K/BB and just two homers allowed in 105 innings for South
> >> >> > Georgia in the Sally League. He hit 96 MPH with the fastball, and
> >> >> > while his curve, slider, and changeup were all erratic, it was clear
> >> >> > his potential was immense. I gave him a Grade B in the '03 book,
> >> >> > wanting to see better component ratios but praising his long-term
> >> >> > upside.
>
> >> >> > Skipped past High-A in 2003, he went 7-7, 3.70 with a 157/53 K/BB in
> >> >> > 148 innings for Double-A Jacksonville, allowing just 121 hits. His
> >> >> > fastball now hit 99 MPH at times, and was consistently in the 93-95
> >> >> > range. His secondary pitches and control improved. The Dodgers gave
> >> >> > him three starts in September and he did great, going 2-1, 2.45 with
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > 19/11 K/BB in 22 innings. I moved him up to a straight Grade A,
> >> >> > impressed wtih his rapid progress, but warning that he could
> >> >> > struggle
> >> >> > if rushed and that it would be best to use him as a long reliever at
> >> >> > first rather than trying to push him into the rotation right away. I
> >> >> > also warned that Triple-A Las Vegas was a tough place to pitch and
> >> >> > that some adjustments could be needed.
>
> >> >> > Indeed, 2004 was a struggle: he was hammered in 24.2 major league
> >> >> > innings (7.30 ERA) and developed major control problems at Vegas,
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > a 5.86 ERA and 70/55 K/BB in 91 innings. His velocity was down a
> >> >> > bit,
> >> >> > his secondary pitches regressed, he had a strained forearm, and in
> >> >> > general he just wasn't as sharp. I reduced him to a Grade B in the
> >> >> > 2005 book, and wrote the following:
>
> >> >> > "My guess, and to be clear this is a pure guess, is that he will
> >> >> > continue to struggle somewhat, improving a bit but not to his '03
> >> >> > level, at least not right away. But after some additional scuffling,
> >> >> > he'll eventually turn things around and have a good career, perhaps
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > relief, but only after most of his fantasy owners have punted."
>
> >> >> > More struggles followed in 2005: complete collapse of his control at
> >> >> > Vegas (8.62 ERA, 33/37 K/BB in 55 innings), and additional poor
> >> >> > pitching in the majors. The Dodgers punted and shipped him off to
> >> >> > Tampa Bay, where he had a difficult time in 2006 in both the majors
> >> >> > and minors, before starting to show some signs of life last year,
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > then pitching well in the early going in 2007. It seems like he's
> >> >> > been
> >> >> > around forever, but Jackson is still just 24.
>
> >> >> > In retrospect, I think Jackson's struggles 2004-2006 were a result
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > 1) being rushed a bit too fast in general 2) some minor nagging
> >> >> > health
> >> >> > problems 3) Las Vegas 4) confidence issues and learning to cope with
> >> >> > adversity. It is too early to know if his better pitching this year
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > genuine skill improvement, better luck, or a combination of the two
> >> >> > factors. i'd like to see the K/BB ratio improve a bit, but it has
> >> >> > been
> >> >> > better over his last three starts, and it's not like this is coming
> >> >> > out of nowhere: he's flashed brilliance before. My guess is that
> >> >> > Jackson is genuinely improving, and that he'll end up having a solid
> >> >> > year. In short, I'm sticking with my "guess" back in 2005.
>
> >> > Oh oh, I think hell just froze over ; ^) That was the main reason I
> >> > posted it. It seems like all the so called 'experts' are predicting a
> >> > Kershaw call-up. I'd hate to see it. The team needs a 5th starter but
> >> > not at the expense of ruinning a possible futre star.
>
> >> I heard that Jackson would not listen to the coaches.they could not tell
> >> him
> >> anything.I doubt Kershaw is the same way.
>
> > They started screwing around with Jackson's delivery and wanted him to
> > pitch differently, IIRC they wanted him not to rely on his curve as
> > much but on his fast ball more. His control kept getting worse so he
> > finally told them no more they weren't helping and tried to get back
> > to the way he used to pitch but couldn't find it, at least not till
> > now apparently. Just because a guy is labeled a pitching coach or
> > instructor doesn't mean he knows the best way for everyone to pitch,
> > they should have left Jackson's mech's alone as well as not rushing
> > him up to the show. A good pitching coach helps a pitcher find his
> > mechs not change them to suit him or the teams idea of what they
> > should be. He turned 21 on the night he went against RJ, and beat him
> > I might add so apparently his mechs were good for that and the 6 ther
> > games he started in show that year.
>
> I wasn't there so I don't really know how it went down <g>...but...keep in
> mind that the rookie pitchers often have an advantage over the hitters. No
> one had seen him before except in scouting reports. To be a starter you
> have to have more than two pitches and you absolutely can't rely on one of
> them to get you out of trouble all the time. Jackson didn't have time to
> develop as a pitcher. He was fast..very fast...but that's not enough to be
> effective for very long. Maybe they messed with his mechanics while trying
> to teach him a slider or to get more movement on his fastball. All I know
> is the Dodgers passed on a lot of trades because they didn't want to give up
> Jackson (and most of us agreed) and the guy never did deliver on the promise
> of his talent. Not for the Dodgers and not for anyone since then.
I wouldn't go that far. It looks like he's finaly gotten it back this
year. He's got a 3.47 ERA so far this year. Granted he needs to cut
down a bit on the BB but is throwing the ball for strikes. Looks a bit
like the same problem Bills seems to have, too many SO's. And I agree
that the Dodgers didn't give up on him for awhile but at the same time
that weren't giving up on him they were trying to change the way he
pitched. And I also agree that when he first came up no one had seen
him but if his stuff wasn't good he would have been lit up, instead he
ended up with an ERA below 3. I REALLY hope he does well and gets it
together.
He may
> still, he's young, but that boat done sailed from the Dodgers dock. They
> need to keep Kershaw pitching in an arena where he can afford to fail while
> he works on other pitches.
>
> AG >> Stay informed about: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson |
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Since: Jan 08, 2004 Posts: 160
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Sickels takes a look at Edwin Jcakson [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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