SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX

On Jan 7, 4:54 pm, TH44 <thehenderson... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 7, 3:23 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > But you're not actually making very good use of your brain here. The
> > fact that they weren't free-agent eligible means they _weren't_ traded
> > just to save money for the cheapskate ownership... They had to be
> > traded because Billy Beane believes he is making the team better.
> > What exactly is wrong with that? Obviously the A's have some proven
> > major league talent that can not only fill the shoes of Swisher and
> > Haren, but might turn out to be better in the long run (eg. Travis
> > Buck, Daric Barton in place of Swisher in the OF and 1B, and Rich
> > Harden in place of Haren at the top of the rotation) PLUS they now
> > have a mini-van's worth of prospects every bit as highly regarded as
> > Swisher and Haren were at the same age... This is not a house-
> > cleaning or cost-saving sequence of events here... So, maybe Harden
> > will continue to struggle with injuries and never pan out, but then
> > maybe one or more of the 4 blue chip pitching prospects they just
> > snagged will. And maybe they get a healthy Rich Harden, plus a new
> > set of "big 3" type guys out of this... Never mind the the potential
>
> How are they making the team better?

For 2008? Or over the course of the next 5 or 6 years? I don't
really know. I simply pointed out that Beane must have made these
deals because he feels they have improved his organization (eg.
greater chance of someday winning a championship), since he had no
immediate financial pressure to jettison Swisher and Haren. He's the
one with the fullest/best answer for you. It might be that he thinks
some or all of these prospects are can't miss stars in the making, or
that Swisher and Haren are on the decline, or something sort of in
between... And it might also mean that he believes the abundance of
young talent already at the big league level, like Cust, Barton, Buck,
Gaudin, Harden, Blanton, etc. make these not such risky deals in any
case... It's his job to know all this stuff and more, and he's been
very, very good at making these decisions. I mean, what exactly is
your argument? He's just a moron who doesn't know how to judge talent
or assemble a good team? Or is he secretly working for the Russians,
trying to sabotage our national pastime?

> Are these guys going to step in
> the roster right now and be great? They are not going to be Swisher or
> Haren caliber players. When they do get that way, they will be traded.
> We've all learned our lesson about pulling for this team, since
> they're run by morons.

You're getting carried away. Swisher and Haren are not all _that_
great. Both showed signs of wearing down in '07 and _might_ have
already had their best seasons (think Mulder, Giambi, Zito, etc.).
Swisher is 28 and has never been better than 10th among AL outfielders
in OPS, and was pretty gimpy much of last year. I'm not saying he
isn't a good ball-player, just that he's not exactly the second coming
of Stan Musial or anything, so let's wish him well and not cry
ourselves to sleep. Haren, meanwhile started '07 awesome but very
steadily declined over the course of the season. Here is his ERA
month by month last year:

April 1.60
May 1.67
June 2.55
July 4.10
August 4.15
September 4.82

That's not the sort of pattern you want to see from your ace, a guy
you hope might be able to spin a complete game shutout on 3 days rest
in the post-season...

The A's won a mere 76 games last year and need to start an upgrade
campaign _somehow_. So, they're going to continue to do it the same
way they've been doing it for a decade now, by drafting and trading
for prospects, and signing the occasional 'value'' free-agent
project. What did you expect them to do? Cross their fingers and
hope for the best? Try to outbid the Giants for Aaron Rowand? Try to
trade Dan Johnson for Albert Pujols? How about Lenny Dinardo for Josh
Beckett?

What mystifies me most about all you whiners is that we have been
fortunate enough to see guys like Giambi and Tejada and Zito at their
best, winning MVPs and Cy Youngs, and leading the Green and Gold to
the post-season. Why exactly are you so tearful about the way this
organization has avoided paying them a 100 million dollars a year to
get old and feeble? Anyway, I'm glad this team stays young and fresh
and unorthodox, and always has another Travis Buck or Daric Barton or
Carlos Gonzalez ready to burst onto the scene.
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

On Jan 7, 9:04 am, The Dave© <n....DeleteThis@no.com> wrote:
> TH44 wrote:
> > On Jan 6, 2:16 pm, The Dave© <n....DeleteThis@no.com> wrote:
>
> > > If you prefer "proven talent", then you'd be better served as a
> > > Giants fan.  Lots of "proven major league veterans" over there.
>
> > Or the proven talent the A's had that they traded away, when they were
> > not free agents and wanted to stay with Oakland.
> > There is no reasoning for this. These guys were not leaving next year.
> > They were signed and young. So the argumetn is "the guys they got are
> > great prospects."
>
> And an unaccaptable percentage of the team is habitually injured,
> ineffective, and thus the team is incomplete.  What's your plan to fill
> out the roster and field a complete team?
>
> > Screw Beane and the A's.
>
> So why are you here posting?
>

I never understood this reasoning. "you don't like what happened, so
you shouldn't be posting"

It's my right as someone who has followed the A's since the "Swinging
A's" days of the 70s, to voice an opinion that Beane is a moron. Yes,
I've had it with this team and it's hard to say it, but I couldn't
care less if they fold or move or whatever now, it's pointless to
follow a team that trades away players that do not need to be traded
(when they trade away the "great prospects" they just received, what
will your excuse be?). And whether that's a valid point or not, it IS
my right to say it. This "why are you posting" baloney is for the
birds.
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

TH44 wrote:
> On Jan 7, 9:04 am, The Dave© <n....DeleteThis@no.com> wrote:
> > TH44 wrote:
> > > On Jan 6, 2:16 pm, The Dave© <n....DeleteThis@no.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > If you prefer "proven talent", then you'd be better served as a
> > > > Giants fan.  Lots of "proven major league veterans" over there.
> >
> > > Or the proven talent the A's had that they traded away, when they
> > > were not free agents and wanted to stay with Oakland.
> > > There is no reasoning for this. These guys were not leaving next
> > > year. They were signed and young. So the argumetn is "the guys
> > > they got are great prospects."
> >
> > And an unaccaptable percentage of the team is habitually injured,
> > ineffective, and thus the team is incomplete.  What's your plan to
> > fill out the roster and field a complete team?
> >
> > > Screw Beane and the A's.
> >
> > So why are you here posting?
>
> I never understood this reasoning. "you don't like what happened, so
> you shouldn't be posting"

Of course you don't. It hits too close to home.

> It's my right as someone who has followed the A's since the "Swinging
> A's" days of the 70s, to voice an opinion that Beane is a moron. Yes,
> I've had it with this team and it's hard to say it, but I couldn't
> care less if they fold or move or whatever now, it's pointless to
> follow a team that trades away players that do not need to be traded
> (when they trade away the "great prospects" they just received, what
> will your excuse be?). And whether that's a valid point or not, it IS
> my right to say it. This "why are you posting" baloney is for the
> birds.

Not only does a fan have the right, they have an obligation, to say
something when their team makes a bonehead move. It's when that
so-called "fan" uses phrases such as 'screw them', which says they've
given up, that they show the (lack of) depth of their fandom, hence the
question.

You never gave your plan, btw.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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"The Dave©" <no.RemoveThis@no.com> wrote in message
news:4784e475$0$26123$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...

> If there's "NO point", and is seemingly a waste of your valuable time,
> why bother posting?

Dave, there is no reasoning with the former Tonowanda Kardex. She's dumb.

Shooty
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On Jan 9, 8:54 am, "rbbom...@netzero.com" <rbbom....DeleteThis@netzero.com>
wrote:

> Well, Sux, you're right, it's fun to watch rookies become very good
> and sometimes even great ballplayers with the A's, but there's a tinge
> of sadness, too. You know as you watch a Swisher or a Haren that he'll
> be gone soon. If Barton is as good as you and I may hope he'll be, how
> long will he stay an A?

Well Russ, if he does turn out to be the next Ted Williams, they will
at least have a chance at throwing a BIG contract at him, in his
prime, because they won't have already committed 300 million dollars
to fading players like Jason Giambi, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder.
Neither of us knows whether Swisher or Haren will end up being worth
all the money they are going to be paid (and it is going to be a lot
of money) but on balance, Billy Beane has shown great wisdom in not
spending a king's ransom on players who've already had their best
years.

> If you want to continue to find excuses and shill for cheap ownership,
> I hope you're well paid,

Just trying to keep the line between "intelligent" and "cheap" from
getting too blurred around here.
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

On Jan 8, 2:24 pm, The Dave© <n....TakeThisOut@no.com> wrote:

> Not only does a fan have the right, they have an obligation, to say
> something when their team makes a bonehead move.  It's when that
> so-called "fan" uses phrases such as 'screw them', which says they've
> given up, that they show the (lack of) depth of their fandom, hence the
> question.
>
> You never gave your plan, btw.
>

Lack of fandom? So if I have given up on the team and thrown away 35
years of being fan, I lose my right to voice an opinion? Ridiculous.
This is a public forum. I can say whatever I want about the team
whether I'm a fan or not fan or a Yankees fan who hates the A's or
anything. There's no criteria for voicing one's opinion. Because you
don't like my comments doesn't mean I cannot put them here. There are
lots of people's posts I dont like but I would never question their
right to post it.
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

On Jan 9, 11:53 am, "Shooty Canseco" <shootycans... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> "The Dave©" <n... RemoveThis @no.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4784e475$0$26123$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
> > If there's "NO point", and is seemingly a waste of your valuable time,
> > why bother posting?
>
> Dave, there is no reasoning with the former Tonowanda Kardex.  She's dumb.
>
> Shooty

He's not "reasoning," he's telling me I do not have the right to post
since I do not like what has happened, which is ridiculous.
Apparently he's under the impression you have to agree with every move
made by the A's, otherwise you lose all rights to voice an opinion.
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

On Jan 9, 11:17 am, thisplanetsux <thisplanet... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 9, 8:54 am, "rbbom...@netzero.com" <rbbom... DeleteThis @netzero.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, Sux, you're right, it's fun to watch rookies become very good
> > and sometimes even great ballplayers with the A's, but there's a tinge
> > of sadness, too. You know as you watch a Swisher or a Haren that he'll
> > be gone soon. If Barton is as good as you and I may hope he'll be, how
> > long will he stay an A?
>
> Well Russ, if he does turn out to be the next Ted Williams, they will
> at least have a chance at throwing a BIG  contract at him, in his
> prime, because they won't have already committed 300 million dollars
> to fading  players like Jason Giambi, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder.
> Neither of us knows whether Swisher or Haren will end up being worth
> all the money they are going to be paid (and it is going to be a lot
> of money) but on balance, Billy Beane has shown great wisdom in not
> spending a king's ransom on players who've already had their best
> years.
>
> > If you want to continue to find excuses and shill for cheap ownership,
> > I hope you're well paid,
>
> Just trying to keep the line between "intelligent" and "cheap" from
> getting too blurred around here.


Well, Sux, if he is the next Ted Williams, do you think the cheap A's
ownership will pay him once he's able to request more than the union's
minimum wage?
As for shilling for the A's cheap ownership, I hope you're demanding
your pay up front. Cheapskates have a long history of promising large
and delivering small or nothing,
--as ever, Russ
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On Jan 9, 2:57 pm, The Dave© <n....TakeThisOut@no.com> wrote:
> > thisplanetsux wrote:
> > Well Russ, if he does turn out to be the next Ted Williams, they will
> > at least have a chance at throwing a BIG  contract at him, in his
> > prime, because they won't have already committed 300 million dollars
> > to fading  players like Jason Giambi, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder.
> > Neither of us knows whether Swisher or Haren will end up being worth
> > all the money they are going to be paid (and it is going to be a lot
> > of money) but on balance, Billy Beane has shown great wisdom in not
> > spending a king's ransom on players who've already had their best
> > years.
>
> > > If you want to continue to find excuses and shill for cheap
> > > ownership, I hope you're well paid,
>
> > Just trying to keep the line between "intelligent" and "cheap" from
> > getting too blurred around here.
>
> Where would the A's be now if they had given Giambi, Zito, Hudson,
> Mulder, and Tejada all the money they wanted?  Probably right where
> they were in last year's standings and with no room to move financially
> and no hope for the near future.
>
> Giambi - bust.
>
> Hudson - hit-and-miss.
>
> Mulder - bust.
>
> Zito - average, but probably better than he did with the Giants.
>
> Tejada - probably the only one of the group who would have remained
> valuable.
>
> Plus, no Blanton (drafted with Giambi compensation pick, IIRC), Haren,
> Calero, Barton, and so on.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Dave, we seldom disagree, but how were we to know the future of
Giambi, Hudson, Mulder, and Tejada in adavnce? Or how do we know the
future of the Single A ballplayers the A's just absorbed? Very few
draftees ever make it, as you know. Swisher and Haren had,
--as ever, Russ
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> TH44 wrote:
> He's not "reasoning," he's telling me I do not have the right to post
> since I do not like what has happened, which is ridiculous.
> Apparently he's under the impression you have to agree with every move
> made by the A's, otherwise you lose all rights to voice an opinion.

No one, not even me, has suggested you didn't have the right to post,
nor that you had to agree with everything. I even specifically said so
in another post in this thread.

What I am saying is that you're talking out your ass by talking about
how it's such a waste of time to be an A's fan, yet you continue to
post. Well, which is it?

Your words are meaningless. Can you wrap your braincells around that?

Probably not.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Shooty Canseco wrote:
> Dave, there is no reasoning with the former Tonowanda Kardex. She's
> dumb.

Yeah, I figured it was probably TK. The irrational hyperbole and
whining was too familar.

At least I don't have to trick people into responding by constantly
changing my name. That's sad.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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> thisplanetsux wrote:
> Well Russ, if he does turn out to be the next Ted Williams, they will
> at least have a chance at throwing a BIG contract at him, in his
> prime, because they won't have already committed 300 million dollars
> to fading players like Jason Giambi, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder.
> Neither of us knows whether Swisher or Haren will end up being worth
> all the money they are going to be paid (and it is going to be a lot
> of money) but on balance, Billy Beane has shown great wisdom in not
> spending a king's ransom on players who've already had their best
> years.
>
> > If you want to continue to find excuses and shill for cheap
> > ownership, I hope you're well paid,
>
> Just trying to keep the line between "intelligent" and "cheap" from
> getting too blurred around here.

Where would the A's be now if they had given Giambi, Zito, Hudson,
Mulder, and Tejada all the money they wanted? Probably right where
they were in last year's standings and with no room to move financially
and no hope for the near future.

Giambi - bust.

Hudson - hit-and-miss.

Mulder - bust.

Zito - average, but probably better than he did with the Giants.

Tejada - probably the only one of the group who would have remained
valuable.

Plus, no Blanton (drafted with Giambi compensation pick, IIRC), Haren,
Calero, Barton, and so on.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: SWISHER TRADED TO WHITE SOX 

On Jan 9, 2:57 pm, The Dave© <n... DeleteThis @no.com> wrote:

>
> What I am saying is that you're talking out your ass by talking about
> how it's such a waste of time to be an A's fan, yet you continue to
> post.  Well, which is it?
>
> Your words are meaningless.  Can you wrap your braincells around that?
>
> Probably not.
>
>

You're saying one must like the moves the A's make or they cannot post
here. Yeah, I can wrap the braincells around it. Your words are
meaningless.

I can write 500 times it's a waste of time to be an A's fan here if I
want. Maybe I will just to see you tell me I can't. You can call me
all the names you want, but you're ridiculous logic that "no one can
come in here and say it's a waste of time to be an A's fan" is stupid.
Again, it's a public forum. I voice whatever opinion I want and I'll
do it a hundred times if i want. If it's "meaningless" than move on.

When the A's trade the all big prospects they acquired in a couple
years after they've had solid MLB seasons for more prospects, I'll be
interested to see your logic on that too.
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