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fonn_volt_west

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Since: Jul 10, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:55 pm
Post subject: Runner reaching first.
Archived from groups: rec>sport>baseball (more info?)

Quick question? Runner reaches first just as the throw is caught by
the first baseman. How come, if the runner is safe the umpire gives
the signal instantly, but if the runner is out the umpire delays for
about a second before giving the signal? Always wondered about that.
Thanks.

F

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Dale Hicks

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Since: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 266



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <0a52e6d9-6db9-4e46-9001-b57f5031fb34
@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, fonn_volt_west DeleteThis @hotmail.com says...
> Quick question? Runner reaches first just as the throw is caught by
> the first baseman. How come, if the runner is safe the umpire gives
> the signal instantly, but if the runner is out the umpire delays for
> about a second before giving the signal? Always wondered about that.
> Thanks.

He's normally looking to make sure that the 1B doesn't drop the ball.
It's less embarassing to call someone safe then out rather than out
then safe, because "out" calls are typically non-reversible (unless
caught quickly).

--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net

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Tarkus

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Since: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 730



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Dale Hicks wrote:
> In article <0a52e6d9-6db9-4e46-9001-b57f5031fb34
> @t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, fonn_volt_west DeleteThis @hotmail.com says...
>> Quick question? Runner reaches first just as the throw is caught by
>> the first baseman. How come, if the runner is safe the umpire gives
>> the signal instantly, but if the runner is out the umpire delays for
>> about a second before giving the signal? Always wondered about that.
>> Thanks.
>
> He's normally looking to make sure that the 1B doesn't drop the ball.
> It's less embarassing to call someone safe then out rather than out
> then safe, because "out" calls are typically non-reversible (unless
> caught quickly).

That and there's less showmanship for safe calls.

--
Pitchers.bat found. Delete dh.sys (Y,y)?
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grossman

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Since: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 26



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 10, 9:55�pm, fonn_volt_w... DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> Quick question? � Runner reaches first just as the throw is caught by
> the first baseman. � �How come, if the runner is safe the umpire gives
> the signal instantly, but if the runner is out the umpire delays for
> about a second before giving the signal? �Always wondered about that.
> Thanks.
>
> F

Once the runner beats the throw at first he's safe forever, you don't
have to wait for anything. If you are sure the runner beat the play,
there's nothing else to wait for.

If the ball beats the runner you still need to be sure the first
baseman's foot was on the bag, and that he had clear possession of the
ball before and even after the runner touches the bag. You may even be
replaying the play in your mind before you are positive that you have
the runner out.

Same process with balls and strikes. When the pitch bounces three feet
in front of the plate you can call it a ball before it gets to the
catcher. When you are considering calling a pitch a strike you want to
wait until after it hits the catcher's glove, and then still take a
second or so to be sure. You don't want to make up your mind that a
pitch is a strike too soon. You'll see a lot of lower level ameteur
umpires who are calling pitches strikes before they even get to the
plate. This is usually a bad umpire, who ends up calling strikes on
pitches that look good about 6 or 8 feet before they get to the plate,
but that end up low, or out, by the time they cross the plate.

Good timing when making calls is essential in umpiring.
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Ryan Robbins

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Since: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 417



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"grossman" <SavoyBG.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40e29f49-d72b-4c2e-a27f-cd44684f36a4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 10, 9:55?pm, fonn_volt_w....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>Same process with balls and strikes. When the pitch bounces three feet
>in front of the plate you can call it a ball before it gets to the
>catcher.

No you can't. Not if you're a good umpire.

>You don't want to make up your mind that a
>pitch is a strike too soon.

Nor do you want to make up your mind that a pitch is a "ball" too soon.

>Good timing when making calls is essential in umpiring.

Which is why you don't call that bouncer anything until after the catcher
gets it.
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mark.wolven

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Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 14, 7:22 am, "Ryan Robbins" <redbird....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
> "grossman" <Savo....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:40e29f49-d72b-4c2e-a27f-cd44684f36a4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 10, 9:55?pm, fonn_volt_w....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >Same process with balls and strikes. When the pitch bounces three feet
> >in front of the plate you can call it a ball before it gets to the
> >catcher.
>
> No you can't. Not if you're a good umpire.
>
> >You don't want to make up your mind that a
> >pitch is a strike too soon.
>
> Nor do you want to make up your mind that a pitch is a "ball" too soon.
>
> >Good timing when making calls is essential in umpiring.
>
> Which is why you don't call that bouncer anything until after the catcher
> gets it.

If a bounced ball strikes the batter, it would be a hit-by-pitch.

And if it bounced high enough, a batter could get a good cut at it; if
it doesn't bounce, he'd get a bad cut at it. And it would be a
swinging strike - or put into play.

You wouldn't the ump yelling ball while the pitch is on its way to the
outfield.
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John Gregory

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Since: Nov 09, 2007
Posts: 222



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, mark.wolven RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:

> You wouldn't the ump yelling ball while the pitch is on its way to the
> outfield.

Doesn't an umpire call "Infield Fly, if fair"? Why not "Ball, if not
swung at"? Smile

But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.

--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
The Dalai Lama said to a hot dog vendor, "Make me one with everything."
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Dale Hicks

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Since: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 266



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <20080716160009.E7306 RemoveThis @mirage.skypoint.com>,
ashbury RemoveThis @skypoint.com says...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, mark.wolven RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You wouldn't the ump yelling ball while the pitch is on its way to the
> > outfield.
>
> Doesn't an umpire call "Infield Fly, if fair"? Why not "Ball, if not
> swung at"? Smile
>
> But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
> a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
> he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.

You know he's indicating the direction that the pitch missed, right?
In case the pitcher wasn't sure if it was away or simply too low for
his tastes.

--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
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Steve Cutchen

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Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 615



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <MPG.22e85654d35fd167989c54.DeleteThis@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dale
Hicks <dgh1138.DeleteThis@southernbell.com> wrote:

> In article <20080716160009.E7306.DeleteThis@mirage.skypoint.com>,
> ashbury.DeleteThis@skypoint.com says...
> > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, mark.wolven.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > You wouldn't the ump yelling ball while the pitch is on its way to the
> > > outfield.
> >
> > Doesn't an umpire call "Infield Fly, if fair"? Why not "Ball, if not
> > swung at"? Smile
> >
> > But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
> > a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
> > he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.
>
> You know he's indicating the direction that the pitch missed, right?
> In case the pitcher wasn't sure if it was away or simply too low for
> his tastes.

Bad form to verbalize a strike on a swinging strike unless it was a
partial swing... then it's "He went... Strike." Else, just make your
strike motion.

On a ball, just say "Ball."

Don't get in a habit of calling where the pitch was. You might help
out a catcher in kid's leagues, especially if a pitcher is getting
frustrated. "Ball. If he gets that up a bit, it's a strike, catch."

The following was written with non-pro ball in mind, but much of it is
directly applicable all the way to MLB.

INSIDE PROTECTOR

Assume a position behind the catcher looking between the catcher and
the batter; you must be able to clearly see the pitcher, the entire
plate and the batter's knees. To see all of those elements, it is
important to move into "the slot" --that area between the catcher and
the batter. The farther you are into the slot, the better you will see
the strike zone. Two additional factors have tremendous impact on your
view of the strike zone: head height and stability. Your head should be
positioned so the bottom of your chin is even with the top of the
catcher's helmet. If you work with your head lower, your view of the
knee-high pitch at or near the outside corner of the plate will be
restricted. The head is straight ahead looking at the pitcher. Your ear
closest to the catcher should be just to the outside of the catcher's
shoulder. These are good starting positions. From the moment the
pitcher releases a pitch until the ball arrives in the catcher's glove,
your head should remain absolutely still. If your head moves at all,
your view of the strike zone will be blurred and your judgment will be
inconsistent.
Assume your crouch when the pitcher is about to release the ball.
You'll view the pitch from between the batter and catcher. Don't go
down too early, for you will put unnecessary strain on your muscles.
Relaxation between pitches is very important. Many umpires wear
themselves out for the late innings by staying in a set position for
too long a period of time. The upper body should remain in an almost
upright position.
One important note, don't kneel down to view the pitch. You must
remember that in a two or three-man crew, the plate umpire often covers
third base. Going to third from a standing position is far easier and
quicker than trying to get there from your knees. (It's true that some
great umpires kneel; there are usually exceptions to every rule. But,
unless you're an exceptionally fast umpire, stay in a crouch, not on a
knee.) When kneeling, you give the impression that you are physically
tired or bored and not in the game.
Whichever position you use, it is important that you do not put a hand
on the catcher or position yourself against the catcher. Your hands
should be kept in front of you. You may hang them at the side of your
legs, hold them together in front of you or hold on to your thighs.
Don't put your hands over your shin guards at the knees or put them on
the catcher. This practice always looks bad to the spectators.

THE PLATE UMPIRE AT WORK

When working behind the plate or on the bases, use the indicator in
your left hand. A little bit of experimentation will show that it was
not made for the right. Use of the indicator in the left hand frees the
right for use in calling strikes. It is very difficult to change the
indicator with the right hand and there is danger of throwing it away
while calling pitches.
The mask is removed as often as possible when the plate umpire is not
actually engaged in calling balls and strikes. The left hand is used in
removing the mask, shift the indicator so the thumb is free. Grasp the
mask so that the thumb is at the side of or under the jaw and the index
and middle finger are gripping the frame. Remove the mask by lifting
out first, then up. By using this method, you can be sure that your cap
will remain on your head. By keeping the mask in your left hand you
will avoid the danger of hitting a player with it or throwing it while
calling a runner out. Most people feel that the out signal looks better
if made with an empty right hand.
In calling a batted ball hit down the baseline, the plate umpire should
remove his mask as soon as the ball is hit. Hustle up the baseline as
far as possible(30/45 foot line is recommended) . Be sure to stop
before it is time to make your decision. On a hard hit ball the umpire
may not have time to remove his mask or get to the baseline. Do the
best you can.
The plate umpire should make the decision on the batter running
inside/outside the three foot line and interfering with the first
baseman taking the throw. This play occurs only on a bunt or slow
roller down the first baseline, therefore, he should be in good
position while the base umpire probably will not.
As the plate umpire, be sure to give the batter a chance to get set in
the box before the pitcher pitches the ball. If the pitcher begins his
motion while the batter is not ready and it is unintentional, call
"time". If he does it on purpose, call "time" and warn him. Each such
pitch after a warning will result in an illegal pitch being called in
Little League (with runners or bases empty) and a balk (JR/SR/BG only)
with the bases occupied. A quick pitch may be called without warning,
but it is good mechanics to stop play the first time because of
possible physical danger.
Under normal conditions, the plate umpire will have to go to third base
to cover a play anytime a runner goes from first to third on a batted
ball. He should go down the line in foul territory, then cross into
fair territory as close to the base as possible. If there is an
overthrow, the umpire (remain in fair territory) must beat the runner
to home plate so he can call the play.
The plate umpire should leave his place behind the catcher on every
batted ball. He should come out in front of the plate so he can get a
better view of the plays taken place on the field. If there is a
possible play at home, the plate umpire will need to move into position
for the best possible view of the play.

BRUSHING THE PLATE

Every gesture and motion of the umpire means something. There is even a
correct way to dust the plate. The umpire should assume a position (as
a courtesy to the fans) with his back to the pitchers mound. The feet
should be spread apart about the width of the shoulders. Bend at both,
the knees and hips. Brush with a vigorous motion toward and away from
the umpire.
The plate should be brushed before each half inning and as needed
during play. Above all, do not allow the catcher (or other players) to
brush the plate with hand or glove. Ask him to request that you do the
brushing.
When a catcher is making remarks about your call, never let him turn
around to protest more than once. Put a stop to it, warn him. A good
way to do this without embarrassment to him is to brush the plate and
look him in the eyes and explain your dissatisfaction. Take more stern
action the next time it happens, if he is a slow learner.

BETWEEN INNINGS

The first duty of both umpires between innings is to keep the players I
hustling on and off the field. He will then stay on that side of the
plate to be out of the player congestion which may occur on the side of
the field of the team coming to bat. A good spot to stand is just off
the foul line, even with the plate. While at that spot, the umpire
should attend such duties as counting warm-up pitches, replenishing his
ball supply, inspecting the baseballs in his ball bag, and seeing that
there is no equipment such as gloves or bats left on the field. The
umpire should never lay his equipment on the ground between innings.
(i.e., mask, chest protector, etc.)
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Dale Hicks

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Since: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 266



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <160720082340401450%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
maxfaq RemoveThis @earthlink.net says...
> In article <MPG.22e85654d35fd167989c54 RemoveThis @newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dale
> Hicks <dgh1138 RemoveThis @southernbell.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <20080716160009.E7306 RemoveThis @mirage.skypoint.com>,
> > ashbury RemoveThis @skypoint.com says...
> > >
> > > But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
> > > a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
> > > he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.
> >
> > You know he's indicating the direction that the pitch missed, right?
> > In case the pitcher wasn't sure if it was away or simply too low for
> > his tastes.
>
> Don't get in a habit of calling where the pitch was. You might help
> out a catcher in kid's leagues, especially if a pitcher is getting
> frustrated. "Ball. If he gets that up a bit, it's a strike, catch."

Are you saying I'm wrong in my assumption? Or are you just throwing
some things out there?

--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
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Steve Cutchen

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Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 615



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <MPG.22e88c2bb0de46e4989c5c.RemoveThis@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dale
Hicks <dgh1138.RemoveThis@southernbell.com> wrote:

> In article <160720082340401450%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
> maxfaq.RemoveThis@earthlink.net says...
> > In article <MPG.22e85654d35fd167989c54.RemoveThis@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dale
> > Hicks <dgh1138.RemoveThis@southernbell.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <20080716160009.E7306.RemoveThis@mirage.skypoint.com>,
> > > ashbury.RemoveThis@skypoint.com says...
> > > >
> > > > But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
> > > > a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
> > > > he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.
> > >
> > > You know he's indicating the direction that the pitch missed, right?
> > > In case the pitcher wasn't sure if it was away or simply too low for
> > > his tastes.
> >
> > Don't get in a habit of calling where the pitch was. You might help
> > out a catcher in kid's leagues, especially if a pitcher is getting
> > frustrated. "Ball. If he gets that up a bit, it's a strike, catch."
>
> Are you saying I'm wrong in my assumption? Or are you just throwing
> some things out there?

Tell the catcher if there is a point to it. But recognize that
oftentimes the request is being used as a jab.

Here's another set of guidelines...

TIMING

o The most important Element
o BE SLOW
o Your partner should be able to click it before you call it
o See the pitch; replay it again in your mind and then call it
o Same timing on every pitch - strike, swinging strike, or ball
o See it hit the mitt, look at the mitt again

(If you get in the habit of calling it early, you'll miss. And, when
you need that extra split second to replay it in your mind, everyone
will know you were borderline... and you'll catch grief and lose
credibility.)

CALLING THE PITCH

o Strike - A lot of ways, use your style
o Keep elbow horizontal to ground and straight
o Snap the signal and Voice the call at the same time ( be clear and
leave NO doubt)
o ON a ball, stay down, if you come up it looks like a strike that
you changed your mind on
o Say ball, don't be quiet, Let them know you KNOW what the pitch was
o Step out and relax
o Strike 3 Call - use your personality - Lot of ways (start chain saw,
punch out)
o Leave NO doubt it was a strike 3. Better to say ³strike 3² then
³batter out²
o Keep your eyes in the plate area - catcher could drop ball or we may
have a steal.
o Swinging Strike - point to batter with left hand, Give strike
signal with right while saying ³yes, he went²
o If batter successfully checked his swing stay down, say ³ball, no he
didn't go²
o If you decide to check with partner. Step back and out to side to
him/her with left hand and ask, ³did he go²?
o After calling the pitch, step back and relax
o Get in a rhythm - relax, set feet, and set (head position), call
the pitch, step out.
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Ryan Robbins

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Since: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 417



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"John Gregory" <ashbury DeleteThis @skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:20080716160009.E7306@mirage.skypoint.com...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, mark.wolven DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You wouldn't the ump yelling ball while the pitch is on its way to the
>> outfield.
>
> Doesn't an umpire call "Infield Fly, if fair"? Why not "Ball, if not
> swung at"? Smile
>
> But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
> a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
> he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.

There's a call. If it's close, it's emphatic, just like a strike -- without
a signal, of course. The only time you might not say anything is when the
pitch is ridiculously out of the zone, such as on an intentional walk.
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Ryan Robbins

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Since: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 417



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Runner reaching first. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Dale Hicks" <dgh1138.TakeThisOut@southernbell.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22e88c2bb0de46e4989c5c@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> In article <160720082340401450%maxfaq@earthlink.net>,
> maxfaq.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net says...
>> In article <MPG.22e85654d35fd167989c54.TakeThisOut@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dale
>> Hicks <dgh1138.TakeThisOut@southernbell.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <20080716160009.E7306.TakeThisOut@mirage.skypoint.com>,
>> > ashbury.TakeThisOut@skypoint.com says...
>> > >
>> > > But more seriously, don't most plate umpires make no call at all on
>> > > a ball? Just a shrug, or a turning away from the pitcher, as though
>> > > he's suddenly ashamed to look the poor chap in the eye.
>> >
>> > You know he's indicating the direction that the pitch missed, right?
>> > In case the pitcher wasn't sure if it was away or simply too low for
>> > his tastes.
>>
>> Don't get in a habit of calling where the pitch was. You might help
>> out a catcher in kid's leagues, especially if a pitcher is getting
>> frustrated. "Ball. If he gets that up a bit, it's a strike, catch."
>
> Are you saying I'm wrong in my assumption? Or are you just throwing
> some things out there?

There is no reason to give any play-by-play on where a pitch missed.
Everybody saw where it was, right?

If the catcher asks, "Was that low [high, outside, inside]?" always say
"yes."

If the catcher asks "Where did that miss?" you can tell him once or twice.
After that, ignore him. If he becomes persistent, then remind him his job is
to catch and your job is to call balls and strikes.
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John Gregory

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Since: Nov 09, 2007
Posts: 222



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:20 am
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Steve Cutchen wrote:

> Here's another set of guidelines...

It's probably worth pointing out that these guidelines appear to be
associated wtih Little League. Nothing wrong with that. But what's
appropriate at one level may not be accepted practice at another.
Explicit communication when youngsters are involved gives way to
an assumption of understanding by all parties on routine calls,
later on.

Getting back to my earlier note, I can see that I led readers astray
by saying "more seriously". Yes, I got back to a serious point, but
then couldn't resist reverting to a joking interpretation within moments.
Sorry for the confusion.

--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
The early bird may get the worm, but I prefer to sleep late and then get bagles.
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John Gregory

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Since: Nov 09, 2007
Posts: 222



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:57 pm
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Ryan Robbins wrote:

> "John Gregory" <ashbury RemoveThis @skypoint.com> wrote in message
> news:20080717111334.O11495@mirage.skypoint.com...
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Steve Cutchen wrote:
>>
>>> Here's another set of guidelines...
>>
>> It's probably worth pointing out that these guidelines appear to be
>> associated wtih Little League.
>
> They apply to all levels.

I based my statement on a google search of a fairly unique phrase
in what was posted here. Only one hit showed up, pointing to a
Little League website. I'd be interested to see that MLB and/or
its umpires' union endorses these same guidelines, for instance.

--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
Go away. I'm all right. -- last words of H. G. Wells
 >> Stay informed about: Runner reaching first. 
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