Retired #'s

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:42:00 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
<greekgod.DeleteThis@yeahright.com> wrote:

>Arlington?
>
>The REAL Washington Senators (League start -1960) became the Minnesota
>Twins. Washington was then awarded an expansion team in 1961, which lasted
>only 11 seasons. The real Senators lasted decades and moved to Minneapolis.

1972
"Washington Senators move to Arlington, Texas, and become the Rangers"

I don't understand why you would even bother to post your message.
"REAL" Senators? What was the team that moved to TX in '72? A pretend
team? A AAA team?

Roberta

>
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"Robertazimmerman" <bobdylan.TakeThisOut@iname.com> wrote in message
news:oiqpl05v5ric55om177uup0r3dbag7596v@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:42:00 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
> <greekgod.TakeThisOut@yeahright.com> wrote:
>
> >Arlington?
> >
> >The REAL Washington Senators (League start -1960) became the Minnesota
> >Twins. Washington was then awarded an expansion team in 1961, which
lasted
> >only 11 seasons. The real Senators lasted decades and moved to
Minneapolis.
>
> 1972
> "Washington Senators move to Arlington, Texas, and become the Rangers"
>
> I don't understand why you would even bother to post your message.
> "REAL" Senators? What was the team that moved to TX in '72? A pretend
> team? A AAA team?
>
> Roberta
>
> >
>

An expansion team. A team that did not exist until 1961, and lasted only 11
seasons. The original Senators lasted 60 years and were a founding club in
the American League. They played in DCs Griffith Stadium and were owned
first by Clark Griffith, then Calvin Griffith, who then moved the club to
Minneapolis after the 1960 season.

I posted this message because you and others seem to think these
expansion-version Senators who moved to Texas define the Washington
Senators. You all seem to forget that 60 of 71 years of major league
baseball in Washington is now represented as the Minnesota Twins. The
expansion version that moved to Texas is a footnote on this historical fact,
not the original (60 years!) club.
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Robertazimmerman wrote:

> I don't understand why you would even bother to post your message.
> "REAL" Senators? What was the team that moved to TX in '72? A pretend
> team? A AAA team?


"Original" would have been a good word. They were both "real".
 >> Stay informed about: Retired #'s 

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:07:35 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
<greekgod DeleteThis @yeahright.com> wrote:

>I posted this message because you and others seem to think these
>expansion-version Senators who moved to Texas define the Washington
>Senators. You all seem to forget that 60 of 71 years of major league
>baseball in Washington is now represented as the Minnesota Twins. The
>expansion version that moved to Texas is a footnote on this historical fact,
>not the original (60 years!) club.

I don't get your point. Who cares which team was the "original" team?
I wouldn't care if the team has spent a month in D.C. The fact is
that a team based in Washington, D.C. called the Senators moved to
Arlington and became the Texas Rangers. That's all I was stating.

Roberta
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The answer is yes and no...kind of. As far as the Dodgers go, I would
guess there were some retired numbers but I've never seen those
numbers posted at Dodger Stadium. The Braves have retired
numbers...Warren Spahn. The Senators, however, do not. Walter Johnson
would have certainly retired his number with the Senators, but when
they moved to Minnesota in 1960, Johnson's number is not at the
Metrodome...HOWEVER, the Twins had a Walter Johnson bobblehead
giveaway night this season.

"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <greekgod RemoveThis @yeahright.com> wrote in message news:<ytOdnfXcV6pEOsHcRVn_vg RemoveThis @giganews.com>...
> "Robertazimmerman" <bobdylan RemoveThis @iname.com> wrote in message
> news:c1mol0p6kj4tegsa3gfaj26jd4aig8aua7@4ax.com...
> > Just curious (and still weepy).
> >
> > When teams move, do the new owners/cities respect the previously
> > retired numbers?
> >
> > For example, were there any Brooklyn Dodger, Milwaukee Braves and
> > Washington Senators retired numbers? Were these numbers still deemed
> > to be retired by the LA, Atlanta and Arlington?
> >
> > I doubt it will happen as I'm sure new owners want to start "anew",
> > but at least it would be a nice link to the team's past.
> >
> > Roberta
>
> Arlington?
>
> The REAL Washington Senators (League start -1960) became the Minnesota
> Twins. Washington was then awarded an expansion team in 1961, which lasted
> only 11 seasons. The real Senators lasted decades and moved to Minneapolis.
 >> Stay informed about: Retired #'s 

"Robertazimmerman" <bobdylan RemoveThis @iname.com> wrote in message
news:nkrql0hvenkalpmq4rrksnpnem63u64bgn@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:07:35 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
> <greekgod RemoveThis @yeahright.com> wrote:
>
> >I posted this message because you and others seem to think these
> >expansion-version Senators who moved to Texas define the Washington
> >Senators. You all seem to forget that 60 of 71 years of major league
> >baseball in Washington is now represented as the Minnesota Twins. The
> >expansion version that moved to Texas is a footnote on this historical
fact,
> >not the original (60 years!) club.
>
> I don't get your point. Who cares which team was the "original" team?
> I wouldn't care if the team has spent a month in D.C. The fact is
> that a team based in Washington, D.C. called the Senators moved to
> Arlington and became the Texas Rangers. That's all I was stating.
>
> Roberta
>

Fine. However, you forgot (or didn't know) that Washington Senators version
1 moved to Minneapolis and became the Minnesota Twins. That's all I was
stating.
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On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:36:32 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
<greekgod.TakeThisOut@yeahright.com> wrote:

>> I don't get your point. Who cares which team was the "original" team?
>> I wouldn't care if the team has spent a month in D.C. The fact is
>> that a team based in Washington, D.C. called the Senators moved to
>> Arlington and became the Texas Rangers. That's all I was stating.
>
>Fine. However, you forgot (or didn't know) that Washington Senators version
>1 moved to Minneapolis and became the Minnesota Twins. That's all I was
>stating.

I neither forgot nor was unaware of this fact; it just wasn't relevant
in context to my comments.

It would be like omitting the fact that Pete Rose had previously
played for the Reds, when the discussion is about getting his 4,000th
hit as an Expo. Interesting and true, but not relevant.

'Nuff said.

Roberta
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On 1 Oct 2004 11:28:00 -0700, adam.crowson.TakeThisOut@gmail.com (Adam) wrote:

Thanks. That sort of clarifies it.

Roberta


>The answer is yes and no...kind of. As far as the Dodgers go, I would
>guess there were some retired numbers but I've never seen those
>numbers posted at Dodger Stadium. The Braves have retired
>numbers...Warren Spahn. The Senators, however, do not. Walter Johnson
>would have certainly retired his number with the Senators, but when
>they moved to Minnesota in 1960, Johnson's number is not at the
>Metrodome...HOWEVER, the Twins had a Walter Johnson bobblehead
>giveaway night this season.
>
>"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <greekgod.TakeThisOut@yeahright.com> wrote in message news:<ytOdnfXcV6pEOsHcRVn_vg.TakeThisOut@giganews.com>...
>> "Robertazimmerman" <bobdylan.TakeThisOut@iname.com> wrote in message
>> news:c1mol0p6kj4tegsa3gfaj26jd4aig8aua7@4ax.com...
>> > Just curious (and still weepy).
>> >
>> > When teams move, do the new owners/cities respect the previously
>> > retired numbers?
>> >
>> > For example, were there any Brooklyn Dodger, Milwaukee Braves and
>> > Washington Senators retired numbers? Were these numbers still deemed
>> > to be retired by the LA, Atlanta and Arlington?
>> >
>> > I doubt it will happen as I'm sure new owners want to start "anew",
>> > but at least it would be a nice link to the team's past.
>> >
>> > Roberta
>>
>> Arlington?
>>
>> The REAL Washington Senators (League start -1960) became the Minnesota
>> Twins. Washington was then awarded an expansion team in 1961, which lasted
>> only 11 seasons. The real Senators lasted decades and moved to Minneapolis.
 >> Stay informed about: Retired #'s 

>Fine. However, you forgot (or didn't know) that Washington Senators version
>1 moved to Minneapolis and became the Minnesota Twins. That's all I was
>stating.

We do know. We also know that the team has had better attendance and better
success on the field since they moved to Minneapolis than they ever did in
Washington. That's saying something considering that the Twins were a candidate
for contraction not too long ago.

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
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"Lord Calvert" <forlornh.TakeThisOut@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20041001151602.29543.00000014@mb-m05.aol.com...
> >Fine. However, you forgot (or didn't know) that Washington Senators
version
> >1 moved to Minneapolis and became the Minnesota Twins. That's all I was
> >stating.
>
> We do know. We also know that the team has had better attendance and
better
> success on the field since they moved to Minneapolis than they ever did in
> Washington. That's saying something considering that the Twins were a
candidate
> for contraction not too long ago.
>
> Rich Goranson
> Amherst, NY, USA
>
>

You know (thank goodness), but Robertazimmer probably did not.

It is moot to compare attendance of any club to Washington 40 years ago.
You need to assess whether Washington today can attract more attendees to
games than Montreal, and I think you know the answer. MLB knows, and hence
au revoir les Expos.
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On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:37:21 -0400, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
<greekgod.RemoveThis@yeahright.com> wrote:

>You know (thank goodness), but Robertazimmer probably did not.

Of course I did; it just wasn't relevant to what I was talking about.

Roberta
>
>It is moot to compare attendance of any club to Washington 40 years ago.
>You need to assess whether Washington today can attract more attendees to
>games than Montreal, and I think you know the answer. MLB knows, and hence
>au revoir les Expos.
>
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In article <c1mol0p6kj4tegsa3gfaj26jd4aig8aua7 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Robertazimmerman <bobdylan RemoveThis @iname.com> wrote:

> When teams move, do the new owners/cities respect the previously
> retired numbers?

The Giants still have their NY numbers retired, but then again, they
remained the "Giants" and didn't become the "Twins" or "Orioles" (i.e.,
they didn't try to reinvent thier identity when they moved).
 >> Stay informed about: Retired #'s 

Giants:
Bill Terry (Player, Mgr.) 3 P 1923-36, M 1932-41 (ret 1985)
Mel Ott (Player, Mgr.) 4 P 1926-47, M 1942-48 (ret 1949)
Carl Hubbell 11 1928-43 (ret 1944)
Willie Mays 24 1951-72 (ret 1972)

These all played for the NY Giants, except for Mays who played many
years with SF. Their retired numbers still stand. Note that Christy
Mathewson and John McGraw did not wear uni #'s/

Dodgers:

Pee Wee Reese (Player, Coach) 1 P 1940-58, C 1959 (ret 1984 )
Tommy Lasorda (Player, Mgr., GM) 2 P 1954-55, M 1976-96, GM 1998 (ret
1997 )Duke Snider 4 1947-62 (ret 7/6/80 )
Jim Gilliam (Player, Coach) 19 P 1953-66, C 1965-78 (ret 1978 )
Don Sutton 20 1966-80, (ret 8/14/98 )
Walter Alston (Manager) 24 1954-76 (ret 6/5/77 )
Sandy Koufax 32 1955-66 (ret 6/4/72 )
Roy Campanella 39 1948-57 (ret 6/4/72 )
Jackie Robinson 42 1947-56 (ret 6/4/72 )
Don Drysdale 53 1956-69 (ret 1984 )

Reese, Campanella, and Robinson only played in Brooklyn. The others
played for the Brooklyn Dodgers at some point. Their retired numbers
still stand

Braves:

Warren Spahn 21 1942-64 (ret 1965)
Eddie Mathews (Player, Coach, Mgr.) 41 P 1952-66, C 1971-72, M 1972-74
1969
Henry Aaron 44 1954-74 (ret 1977)

Spahn was a Boston and Milwaukee Brave, Mathews was all three cities
(the only such person), and Aaron was Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves.
THeir numbers stand. There are other solely Atlanta Brave retirees

Twins:

Harmon Killebrew was a Senator for 7 years. His number is retired
Walter Johnson did not wear a uniform number in his day (pre 1936)

Rangers:

No one good enough in 1961-1971 to merit retirement

Athletics

No one retired from the Philadeplhia or KC era, although a great case
should be made for Jimmie Fox (#3) and Lefty Grove (#10).Reggie
Jackson played 1 yr as a KCA.
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