Randy Winn

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <none.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote:

>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?

Because he has zero power in a power position?
--
Greg Lentz
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 17, 7:15 pm, MS <n... RemoveThis @attbi.com> wrote:
> Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?

I think its because he has the highest BA in the NL for the month of
August and he's Mr. Clutch.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 17, 8:25 pm, Jonathan Bernstein <j....DeleteThis@socrates.berkeley.edu>
wrote:
> Greg Lentz <nodamns....DeleteThis@speakeasy.net> wrote innews:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <n....DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> >>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> >>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> >>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> > Because he has zero power in a power position?
>
> Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
> 424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
> getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't.  He's clearly a
> major leaguer, but he's stretched as a starting RF.  Now, there are
> worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
> next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
> even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.  
>
> He's not the reason the Giants are terrible this year...but he's
> basically a stopgap solution, not a long term plus.
>
> JHB

He'll be long since retired before there is another good Giants team.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

Greg Lentz <nodamnspam.RemoveThis@speakeasy.net> wrote in
news:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <none.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
>>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
>>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> Because he has zero power in a power position?

Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't. He's clearly a
major leaguer, but he's stretched as a starting RF. Now, there are
worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.

He's not the reason the Giants are terrible this year...but he's
basically a stopgap solution, not a long term plus.

JHB
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

Jonathan Bernstein <jhb RemoveThis @socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9AFDEE3BC70EEjhbsocratesberkeleye@207.115.33.102:

> Now, there are
> worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
> next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
> even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.
>

Will we ever see another good Giants team?
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

"Jonathan Bernstein" <jhb RemoveThis @socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9AFDEE3BC70EEjhbsocratesberkeleye@207.115.33.102...
> Greg Lentz <nodamnspam RemoveThis @speakeasy.net> wrote in
> news:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <none RemoveThis @attbi.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> >>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> >>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
> >
> > Because he has zero power in a power position?
>
> Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
> 424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
> getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't. He's clearly a
> major leaguer, but he's stretched as a starting RF. Now, there are
> worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
> next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
> even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.
>
> He's not the reason the Giants are terrible this year...but he's
> basically a stopgap solution, not a long term plus.

That's all true, but then again, *ideally* you want a plus player, but
you're just not gonna get a plus player (or even an average player) at every
position. As of this moment, Winn's actually right around average for NL RF
(but I think his BA was only .280 just 2 weeks ago; he must be red hot
recently). Right now he's tied (with Griffey) for 9th in OPS for NL RFs,
and 36 points higher than All-Star Fukudome. hehe. I guess you can do
better than Winn at RF, but you can also easily do worse.

And of course, he might not be able to sustain his current stats to finish
the year. It's dangerous to look at a player's stat right when he's having
a hot streak (remember Molina in May?).

Wow, what happened to Pence? He has 17 HRs, but his OPS stinks!

NL RF OPS
Lance Berkman 1.033
Ryan Ludwick .993
Brad Hawpe .914
Rick Ankiel .878
Matt Kemp .829
Andre Ethier .825
Corey Hart .816
Brian Giles .810
Ken Griffey Jr. .787
Randy Winn .787
Skip Schumaker .786
Kosuke Fukudome .757
Jeremy Hermida .751
Hunter Pence .746
Lastings Milledge .730
Jeff Francoeur .645
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Lord Buckeye
<l_buckeye.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 17, 7:15 pm, MS <n....DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote:
>> Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
>> hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
>> you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
>I think its because he has the highest BA in the NL for the month of
>August and he's Mr. Clutch.

What about the rest of the season?
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 17, 11:25 pm, Jonathan Bernstein <j....TakeThisOut@socrates.berkeley.edu>
wrote:
> Greg Lentz <nodamns....TakeThisOut@speakeasy.net> wrote innews:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <n....TakeThisOut@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> >>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> >>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> >>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> > Because he has zero power in a power position?
>
> Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
> 424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
> getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't.

The average NL RF is hitting .272/.343/.441, so Winn is
is pretty much positional average this year.

But he's also not a whole lot better than the average backup
this year. The starters are being dragged down by
Kearns, Francouer and Jenkins who've combined to go
..230/.299/.350 in just under 1100 PAs.

So what it boils down to is that while it's not hard to
do worse than Winn, there's clearly no shortage of
guys who aren't regulars that can give you roughly
what Winn does.

He's not *bad*, just not particularly valuable.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 18, 7:50 am, "Awesome Lincecum" <Lince... DeleteThis @sf.giants> wrote:
> "Jonathan Bernstein" <j... DeleteThis @socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9AFDEE3BC70EEjhbsocratesberkeleye@207.115.33.102...
>
>
>
> > Greg Lentz <nodamns... DeleteThis @speakeasy.net> wrote in
> >news:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:
>
> > > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <n... DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote:
>
> > >>Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> > >>hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> > >>you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> > > Because he has zero power in a power position?
>
> > Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
> > 424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
> > getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't. He's clearly a
> > major leaguer, but he's stretched as a starting RF. Now, there are
> > worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
> > next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
> > even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.
>
> > He's not the reason the Giants are terrible this year...but he's
> > basically a stopgap solution, not a long term plus.
>
> That's all true, but then again, *ideally* you want a plus player, but
> you're just not gonna get a plus player (or even an average player) at every
> position. As of this moment, Winn's actually right around average for NL RF
> (but I think his BA was only .280 just 2 weeks ago; he must be red hot
> recently). Right now he's tied (with Griffey) for 9th in OPS for NL RFs,
> and 36 points higher than All-Star Fukudome. hehe. I guess you can do
> better than Winn at RF, but you can also easily do worse.
>
> And of course, he might not be able to sustain his current stats to finish
> the year. It's dangerous to look at a player's stat right when he's having
> a hot streak (remember Molina in May?).
>
> Wow, what happened to Pence? He has 17 HRs, but his OPS stinks!
>
> NL RF OPS
> Lance Berkman 1.033

Playing first -- he hasn't touched the OF all year. Pence
has started all but 6 games for the Astros

> Ryan Ludwick .993
> Brad Hawpe .914
> Rick Ankiel .878

He's playing mostly CF.

> Matt Kemp .829
> Andre Ethier .825

(Kemp has settled in CF.)

> Corey Hart .816
> Brian Giles .810
> Ken Griffey Jr. .787
> Randy Winn .787
> Skip Schumaker .786

(Also of the Cardinals -- he's mostly played left)

> Kosuke Fukudome .757
> Jeremy Hermida .751
> Hunter Pence .746
> Lastings Milledge .730

He's played center all year. Kearns is much worse)

> Jeff Francoeur .645

You're missing Nady, Jenkins, Church and Upton

The starters have actually averaged .273/.346/.449
which is unusually close to positional average.

Teams have been unusually patient with starters
well below their established level of talent.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On 2008-08-18 04:50:49 -0700, "Awesome Lincecum" <Lincecum.RemoveThis@sf.giants> said:

>
> "Jonathan Bernstein" <jhb.RemoveThis@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AFDEE3BC70EEjhbsocratesberkeleye@207.115.33.102...
>> Greg Lentz <nodamnspam.RemoveThis@speakeasy.net> wrote in
>> news:vsmha410dfdtq897g5226vfmar5hch9lpi@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:15:49 -0700, MS <none.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
>>>> hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
>>>> you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>>>
>>> Because he has zero power in a power position?
>>
>> Yup; these days, if you can't keep your SLG higher than Winn's current
>> 424, you just aren't going to be much of a corner OFer unless you're
>> getting on base at a terrific clip, and he doesn't. He's clearly a
>> major leaguer, but he's stretched as a starting RF. Now, there are
>> worse, there's basically no chance that he'll be a plus player on the
>> next good Giants team, and given his age it's unlikely that he'll be
>> even a marginal regular on the next good Giants team.
>>
>> He's not the reason the Giants are terrible this year...but he's
>> basically a stopgap solution, not a long term plus.
>
> That's all true, but then again, *ideally* you want a plus player, but
> you're just not gonna get a plus player (or even an average player) at every
> position. As of this moment, Winn's actually right around average for NL RF
> (but I think his BA was only .280 just 2 weeks ago; he must be red hot
> recently). Right now he's tied (with Griffey) for 9th in OPS for NL RFs,
> and 36 points higher than All-Star Fukudome. hehe. I guess you can do
> better than Winn at RF, but you can also easily do worse.
>
> And of course, he might not be able to sustain his current stats to finish
> the year. It's dangerous to look at a player's stat right when he's having
> a hot streak (remember Molina in May?).
>
> Wow, what happened to Pence? He has 17 HRs, but his OPS stinks!
>
> NL RF OPS
> Lance Berkman 1.033
> Ryan Ludwick .993
> Brad Hawpe .914
> Rick Ankiel .878
> Matt Kemp .829
> Andre Ethier .825
> Corey Hart .816
> Brian Giles .810
> Ken Griffey Jr. .787
> Randy Winn .787
> Skip Schumaker .786
> Kosuke Fukudome .757
> Jeremy Hermida .751
> Hunter Pence .746
> Lastings Milledge .730
> Jeff Francoeur .645

Look at Lastings Milledge down near the bottom of the pack. I'm glad
Sabean didn't trade one of our starting pitchers for him!
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

I do not know if the stats back it up for his entire career, but he seems to
be a better second half player. Too bad you can't play the good first half
players before the allstar break and then change your team to second half
hitters. Of interest a young Baltimore Oriole who in his first couple of
seasons seemed to clearly be a better second half player is Markakis. This
year his first half was not bad, so if he has a typical strong finish of his
first couple of years he should end up with excellent stats. Unlike Winn,
Markakis is starting to emerge with some power. Which makes one wonder if
sometimes a guy like Schierholtz might develop better in the majors than in
the minors. When these prospects seem to hit a wall in the minors, it could
well be time to let them grow in the majors. I either see the keeping of
Winn, Roberts or the adding of Rowand, measures which have kept some of our
minor league prospects from developing in the majors. I like Winn as a
player, and his 22 steals should make his 787 OPS a little on the low side
because he has been able to swipe the extra base consistently this year.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 18, 8:31 am, JW <Jo....DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Lord Buckeye
>
> <l_buck....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Aug 17, 7:15 pm, MS <n....DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote:
> >> Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> >> hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> >> you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> >I think its because he has the highest BA in the NL for the month of
> >August and he's Mr. Clutch.
>
> What about the rest of the season?

The rest of the season is either over or hasn't happened yet.
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn 

On Aug 18, 12:57 pm, Lord Buckeye <l_buck... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 18, 8:31 am, JW <Jo... DeleteThis @clearwire.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Lord Buckeye
>
> > <l_buck... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >On Aug 17, 7:15 pm, MS <n... DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote:
> > >> Don't understand why people are down on Randy Winn. He's a solid .300
> > >> hitter with speed and good defense. The Giants need more like him. Are
> > >> you disappointed because he's not another Barry Bonds?
>
> > >I think its because he has the highest BA in the NL for the month of
> > >August and he's Mr. Clutch.
>
> > What about the rest of the season?
>
> The rest of the season is either over or hasn't happened yet.


I like Winn but simply cannot BELIEVE the Devil Rays haven't traded
for him considering their lack of maturity and rash of injuries.
Downright peculiar if you ask me.

dlew
 >> Stay informed about: Randy Winn