Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire..

In article <3F4C0892.1000202.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net>,
"Drew K." <sjdrewk.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Bill Kno wrote:
> > The Padres owner has given the go ahead to improve the Padres next
> > year by increasing payroll to around 70M. In the first move toward
> > that goal the Padres aquired Brian Giles whose .302/.418/.565 career
> > numbers are hard to match for anyone not named Bonds or Helton.
>
> I'm a little surprised it happened during the season. I thought they'd
> get him, but not until the off season. Pirates knowingly get hosed on
> this deal but they accomplish part of what they want which is to shed
> salary. Good deal for the Pads. I don't think they gave up much.

I'm just shocked the Padres got the deal done without taking Kendall;
that's been the rumor all season--that whoever got Giles would have to
take Kendall (& his salary) as well.

--
JD

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game.
It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."-- Walt Whitman
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

On 26 Aug 2003 15:26:54 -0700, bill573 DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Bill Kno) wrote:

>The Padres owner has given the go ahead to improve the Padres next
>year by increasing payroll to around 70M. In the first move toward
>that goal the Padres aquired Brian Giles whose .302/.418/.565 career
>numbers are hard to match for anyone not named Bonds or Helton.


Look for a new catcher and a #1 starting pitcher for the Padres.

LF - Klesko
CF - Kotsay
RF - Giles
1B - Nevin
2B - Lorreta
SS - Green (rookie great fielder)
3B - Burroughs
C - New Free agent

With Hoffman and Beck making the game a 7 inning game.

Eaton - 25
Lawernce - 26
Peavy - 22

Young pitchers a little more expirence.

Padres will be very good next year.
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

"Honus Wagner" <heaton DeleteThis @u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<W7W2b.288$jZ3.122415@news.uswest.net>...
> --
> > Why would you say that? Last year he was 2nd only to Bonds and this year
> > he's still pretty damned good despite injury.
>
> Because this year his OPS is down, injury is not part of debate because
> injury could just as easily be due to age as anything else... anyway, there
> is no evidence in my mind that Giles is better than Sheffield and the point
> of my posts is that at $10mm per year GIles is not the steal that he was two
> years ago especially when Sheffield may get less than $10mm per year next
> year.
>

Last 5 years OPS

Sheffield / Giles

0.930 / 1.032
1.081 / 1.026
1.000 / 0.994
0.916 / 1.072
1.043 / 0.951

Average

0.994 / 1.025

Giles has averaged .031 points higher over the last 5 years.

Giles lifetime BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS are higher than Sheffield's
Giles .302/.418/.565/.983
Sheff .298/.401/.527/.928

Yes that is 0.55 points higher lifetime OPS than Sheffield!!!

If you take 1.072 to 0.951 as a downward trend (with injury) at the
age of 32, wouldn't you take 1.081 at 31, 1.000 at 32, and 0.916 at 33
as a big downward trend for Sheffield? What happened? This year at 34
he is at 1.043!

Giles has a higher lifetime OPS than BONDS did at his age. Does that
mean I think Giles will become a baseball god in 5 years - NO. But his
career is still going strong. Giles is a gamer and in great shape.

Giles also has a higher career OPS than Vald Guerrero. Giles extra
value is in on base percentage which is the more important part of
OPS.

You will be seeing a lot of Giles in the future. He is now the 2nd
best player in the NL West and soon to be #1.
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:46:58 GMT, Go RemoveThis @Aztecs.com (Aztec basketball Fan)
wrote:

>On 26 Aug 2003 15:26:54 -0700, bill573 RemoveThis @hotmail.com (Bill Kno) wrote:
>
>>The Padres owner has given the go ahead to improve the Padres next
>>year by increasing payroll to around 70M. In the first move toward
>>that goal the Padres aquired Brian Giles whose .302/.418/.565 career
>>numbers are hard to match for anyone not named Bonds or Helton.
>
>
>Look for a new catcher and a #1 starting pitcher for the Padres.
>
>LF - Klesko
>CF - Kotsay
>RF - Giles
>1B - Nevin
>2B - Lorreta
>SS - Green (rookie great fielder)
>3B - Burroughs
>C - New Free agent
>
>With Hoffman and Beck making the game a 7 inning game.
>
>Eaton - 25
>Lawernce - 26
>Peavy - 22
>
>Young pitchers a little more expirence.
>
>Padres will be very good next year.

Color me unworried.

Greg Lentz
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"Bill Kno" <bill573.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4ee1541.0308270733.3b0ad39f@posting.google.com...
> "Honus Wagner" <heaton.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:<W7W2b.288$jZ3.122415@news.uswest.net>...
> > --
> > > Why would you say that? Last year he was 2nd only to Bonds and this
year
> > > he's still pretty damned good despite injury.
> >
> > Because this year his OPS is down, injury is not part of debate because
> > injury could just as easily be due to age as anything else... anyway,
there
> > is no evidence in my mind that Giles is better than Sheffield and the
point
> > of my posts is that at $10mm per year GIles is not the steal that he was
two
> > years ago especially when Sheffield may get less than $10mm per year
next
> > year.
> >
>
> Last 5 years OPS
>
> Sheffield / Giles
>
> 0.930 / 1.032
> 1.081 / 1.026
> 1.000 / 0.994
> 0.916 / 1.072
> 1.043 / 0.951

The BIG BIG BIG difference is that Sheff played in LA and Atlanta, two
pitcher's parks and Giles played in Pitt a hitter environment.

3 year average Road OPS:

Sheffield 1.031
Giles .967


>
> Average
>
> 0.994 / 1.025
>
> Giles has averaged .031 points higher over the last 5 years.
>
> Giles lifetime BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS are higher than Sheffield's
> Giles .302/.418/.565/.983
> Sheff .298/.401/.527/.928
>
> Yes that is 0.55 points higher lifetime OPS than Sheffield!!!

That is what happens when you are second in the league in Home RUns with 31
in 1993..... Your argument there is one of the dumbest in a while. That is
like saying the year Yaz won the triple crown he was not as good as Giles
last year because Giles OPS was higher..... You have to control for era and
league performance.... So again:

OPS+

Sheffield OPS+ (adjusted for park and era) = 149
Giles OPS+ = 142
>
> If you take 1.072 to 0.951 as a downward trend (with injury) at the
> age of 32, wouldn't you take 1.081 at 31, 1.000 at 32, and 0.916 at 33
> as a big downward trend for Sheffield? What happened? This year at 34
> he is at 1.043!
>
> Giles has a higher lifetime OPS than BONDS did at his age. Does that
> mean I think Giles will become a baseball god in 5 years - NO. But his
> career is still going strong. Giles is a gamer and in great shape.

Now you are really getting to be annoying.... Bonds led the LEAGUE with an
OPS of .924 in 1991!!!! Of course Giles has a higher lifetime OPS than
Bonds, but he has a MUCH MUCH lower OPS+.

>
> Giles also has a higher career OPS than Vald Guerrero. Giles extra
> value is in on base percentage which is the more important part of
> OPS.

GIles lifetime OPS .982 in hitter's parks
Guerrero's .974 in neutral/pitcher's parks..... with out looking it up I
will tell you that Vlad's career OPS adjusting for parks is higher than
GIles.

>
> You will be seeing a lot of Giles in the future. He is now the 2nd
> best player in the NL West and soon to be #1.

I do not dispute that Giles is one of the top 5 players in the National
League.... I dispute that his contract ($10mm) is still a great great
bargain. Lets see what Sheffield and Guerrero get before judging if $10mm
is well below the market rate for one of the top 5 outfielders in the NL.
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

"Aztec basketball Fan" <Go DeleteThis @Aztecs.com> wrote in message
news:3f4c53e0.3151003944@news.znet.com...


I would say "Fresno State rules!" except that, in this case, it isn't really
true. Plus, I have probably ridden the whole Fresno horse in here enough for
one month.

> Look for a new catcher and a #1 starting pitcher for the Padres.
>
> LF - Klesko
> CF - Kotsay
> RF - Giles
> 1B - Nevin
> 2B - Lorreta
> SS - Green (rookie great fielder)
> 3B - Burroughs
> C - New Free agent

Maybe Benito? I don't think he is going to be back here.

> With Hoffman and Beck making the game a 7 inning game.

What I heave read so far implies Beck will be closing for someone else next
year.

> Padres will be very good next year.

We have heard this for several years now. I would agree they are on the
upswing, but I guess I would like to see it before I start to fear it. Just
opening a new ballpark is no guarantee of success, as the Pirates and
Brewers continually prove.

rb
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Bill Kno <bill573.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

: Giles lifetime BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS are higher than Sheffield's
: Giles .302/.418/.565/.983
: Sheff .298/.401/.527/.928
[...]
: Giles has a higher lifetime OPS than BONDS did at his age. Does that
: mean I think Giles will become a baseball god in 5 years - NO. But his
: career is still going strong. Giles is a gamer and in great shape.

Be real careful with lifetime stats; those who have a bunch of career
pre-1993 are going to have much lower raw stats, all else equal.

: You will be seeing a lot of Giles in the future. He is now the 2nd
: best player in the NL West and soon to be #1.

We'll see. He could age well, or badly; if he ages normally, he'll likely
not match his '02 season, and he'll mostly be below his 99-01 levels.

He's awful good, but at least among humans, it's better to be younger than
the 33 he'll be next year.

JHB
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:28:52 -0700, "Honus Wagner"
<heaton.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>I do not dispute that Giles is one of the top 5 players in the National
>League.... I dispute that his contract ($10mm) is still a great great
>bargain. Lets see what Sheffield and Guerrero get before judging if $10mm
>is well below the market rate for one of the top 5 outfielders in the NL.
>

Where do you get $10 mil. I have heard $8 million consistently.
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:31:04 GMT, "Richard Booroojian"
<rbooroojNOSPAM RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:


>What I heave read so far implies Beck will be closing for someone else next
>year.
>

Beck has stated he would like to set up for Trevor next year.
 >> Stay informed about: Padres beginning to create team for new ball park - aquire.. 

"Honus Wagner" <heaton.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<xo93b.86$ib4.64710@news.uswest.net>...
>
> The BIG BIG BIG difference is that Sheff played in LA and Atlanta, two
> pitcher's parks and Giles played in Pitt a hitter environment.
>
> 3 year average Road OPS:
>
> Sheffield 1.031
> Giles .967
>

Maybe you should also adjust for pitchers faced. Giles was on a team
that played in closer games and more usually on the down side. This
caused the relief pitchers that were brought in to be better.
Sheffield played on teams that knocked out the starter more quickly so
he hit against more releif pitchers that would be called in when your
team is well behind. Last year Sheffield's team had 26 saves against
them. Giles team had 41 saves against them. That is an indication of
the type of releif pitching they faced. Atlanta had 31 games decided
by 6 runs or more. Pittsburgh had 21 games decided by 6 runs or more.
Those are the type of games where the worst pitchers on each staff are
flinging the ball to the plate.

Giles also played in front of an average attendance of 24K+ (home and
away). Sheffield played in front of 29K+. Sheffield has played on
teams in the thick of the pennant race. These things help keep players
motivated to always play their best. To keep their heads into the
game.

When you start adjusting there are many adjustments you can make.
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