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Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 394
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:04 am
Post subject: Optionable guys....
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>cinci-reds (more info?)
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lifted from http://shawns.blogspot.com/ who lifted it from the reds is the
list of guys who CAN be optioned to the minors this year.
"It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston,
Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock (who I inadvertently left out of
the bullpen preview), Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad
Salmon, Brian Shackelford, and Mike Stanton.
No catchers.
Infield: Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger, Joey
Votto.
Outfield: Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Junior
Griffey, Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper"
I'm frankly a bit puzzled by some of the names on here. Dumatrait came over
three years ago and has been on the 40 man roster since he came over. Same
with Belisle. Perhaps injury time? Same with Rameriz? I don't see how you
can include rule v pickups, I guess technically they DO have options, but
you can't option them this year till you really own them. I'm kind shocked
that Brian Shcakelford has an option left, but yeah looking at his "career"
he's only been up the last two years. It just seems like he's been yanked
around forever.
Well, the truth is that that very much eases up what I thought was the
pressure on the reds to use certain guys.
I'm gonna revisit the guys that have some serious chance at spending the
start of the year in Louisville.
It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait,
Bobby Livingston, Calvin Medlock Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad
Salmon, Brian Shackelford.
Infield: Jerry Gil, Jeff Keppinger, Joey Votto.
Outfield: Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Norris Hopper
plus there is Burton and Hamilton who the reds either have to keep or give
back.
There are also a couple guys like Moeller, Wilson, Crosby or Santos around
who are pretty much free.
huh.
Very interesting list.
dfs |
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:04:28 -0500, "David Short"
<David.no.Short.TakeThisOut@Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote:
<Mucho Snippage>
Yeah, some of those guys may as well go get fitted for Bats uniforms
right now so they don't have to waste the time later.
On the other hand, some of those guys have as much chance of starting
the season in the minors as you or I have of starting the season on
the 25-man. Can you imagine if Harang, Dunn, or Griffey got optioned
to AAA? They'd come after Krivsky with pitchforks, torches, a length
of sturdy rope, and detailed plans to swing his ass from the John A.
Roebling Suspension Bridge. Come to think of it, Bob Castellini might
even tie the noose personally, right after the first game ended and
the three fans who were still awake woke up the other four so that
everybody could leave.
>plus there is Burton and Hamilton who the reds either have to keep or give
>back.
Or work out a trade with the guy's original club so they can send him
to see Rick Sweet for some more seasoning.
>There are also a couple guys like Moeller, Wilson, Crosby or Santos around
>who are pretty much free.
There's more than a couple. There's 17 non-roster invitees listed on
the Reds' website. Two of 'em are Wilson and Santos, along with
Guardado, DeWayne Wise, Ligtenberg and Meadows and some other
pitchers; there's four catchers, and there's three infielders, one of
whom is Machado. I think Gil is another.
Of course, Moeller and Crosby are on the 40-man now. Crosby has a
two-way contract. Dunno about Moeller, but I don't think so.
When all the smoke clears and we get to see who comes north with the
Reds and who doesn't, I think there's going to be more than a few
folks who aren't going to be pleased.
Completely tangential comment - I didn't realize until today that Gil
is from San Pedro de Macoris. Wouldn't surprise me if he's an All-Star
shortstop here once the contract with Gonzalez runs out.
John D, Kasupski, Tonawanda, NY
Reds Fan Since The 1960's
http://kc2hmz.net |
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"John Kasupski" <kc2hmz DeleteThis @wzrd.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:04:28 -0500, "David Short"
>
> <Mucho Snippage>
>
> Yeah, some of those guys may as well go get fitted for Bats uniforms
> right now so they don't have to waste the time later.
>
> On the other hand, some of those guys have as much chance of starting
> the season in the minors as you or I have of starting the season on
> the 25-man. Can you imagine if Harang, Dunn, or Griffey got optioned
> to AAA?
Many of those guys have enough service time that they could refuse the
assignment.
Technically they "have options" but the club can't use them.
snip
>>There are also a couple guys like Moeller, Wilson, Crosby or Santos around
>>who are pretty much free.
>
> There's more than a couple. There's 17 non-roster invitees listed on
> the Reds' website. Two of 'em are Wilson and Santos, along with
> Guardado, DeWayne Wise, Ligtenberg and Meadows and some other
> pitchers; there's four catchers, and there's three infielders, one of
> whom is Machado. I think Gil is another.
Gil's on the 40 man roster. He's the two year disaster plan at shortstop.
snip
> Completely tangential comment - I didn't realize until today that Gil
> is from San Pedro de Macoris. Wouldn't surprise me if he's an All-Star
> shortstop here once the contract with Gonzalez runs out.
Not only that he was second in the southern league in slugging behind our
very own Joey Votto. Being on the 40 man roster and having played well at AA
bodes well for his future.
dfs >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Posts: 441
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"David Short" <David.no.Short.RemoveThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote in message
news:erhn7b$820$1@posting.glorb.com...
> lifted from http://shawns.blogspot.com/ who lifted it from the reds is the
> list of guys who CAN be optioned to the minors this year.
>
> "It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey,
Rheal
> Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston,
> Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock (who I inadvertently left out of
> the bullpen preview), Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad
> Salmon, Brian Shackelford, and Mike Stanton.
Only a lop-eared, mule-nosed, viagara snorting, thimble-headed, slimebag,
rat-raising, egg-sucking mutant son of a traveling snake salesman would
think that a veteran like Rheal Cormier could be sent to the minors without
giving permission.You should also add Eric Milton to that inferno of
incompetence. Mike Stanton as well.
>
> No catchers.
>
> Infield: Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger, Joey
> Votto.
Put "No Bat" Gonzalez on the non-optionable list.
>
> Outfield: Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Junior
> Griffey, Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper"
Only a turkey nosed buzzard would think Griffey, Dunn or Conine are
optionable.
What miscreant put that list together? >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 394
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:07 am
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"gnork" <gnork44.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lXbDh.5143$tD2.1766@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "David Short" <David.no.Short.DeleteThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote in message
>> lifted from http://shawns.blogspot.com/ who lifted it from the reds is
>> the
>> list of guys who CAN be optioned to the minors this year.
>>
>> "It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey,
> Rheal
>> Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston,
>> Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock (who I inadvertently left out
>> of
>> the bullpen preview), Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad
>> Salmon, Brian Shackelford, and Mike Stanton.
>
> Only a lop-eared, mule-nosed, viagara snorting, thimble-headed, slimebag,
> rat-raising, egg-sucking mutant son of a traveling snake salesman would
> think that a veteran like Rheal Cormier could be sent to the minors
> without
> giving permission.You should also add Eric Milton to that inferno of
> incompetence. Mike Stanton as well.
snip
> What miscreant put that list together?
My bad. It's a list of guys with options. You are absolutely correct in that
the guys with 5+ years of service time cannot be optioned without their
consent. The fault was in my presentation. Not Shawn's listing of the red's
listing.
I'm left still curious about exactly how the lizard can have an option left.
The only thing I can think is that they managed to finagle his demotion last
year as injury/rehab retroactively.
dfs >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Since: Mar 20, 2006
Posts: 121
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Feb 21, 1:53 pm, "David Short"
<David.no.Sh....DeleteThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote:
> "John Kasupski" <kc2....DeleteThis@wzrd.com> wrote in message
>
> > There's more than a couple. There's 17 non-roster invitees listed on
> > the Reds' website. Two of 'em are Wilson and Santos, along with
> > Guardado, DeWayne Wise, Ligtenberg and Meadows and some other
> > pitchers; there's four catchers, and there's three infielders, one of
> > whom is Machado. I think Gil is another.
>
> Gil's on the 40 man roster. He's the two year disaster plan at shortstop.
>
> snip
>
> > Completely tangential comment - I didn't realize until today that Gil
> > is from San Pedro de Macoris. Wouldn't surprise me if he's an All-Star
> > shortstop here once the contract with Gonzalez runs out.
>
> Not only that he was second in the southern league in slugging behind our
> very own Joey Votto. Being on the 40 man roster and having played well at AA
> bodes well for his future.
>
I cant see him playing SS for the Reds. He was primarily an outfielder
in AA. The signs are clear that the Reds are going to be a bit more
defense-focused under Wayne/Jerry.
I see Gil as more of a utility-type. We'll know what the Reds think
about his glove if he starts getting most SS innings at Louisville.
Paul Janish will be at AA this year and he's probably the best
infielder in the system defensively. Then theres going to be a couple
of SS at the single-A clubs that are considered legit prospects,
Milton Loo and Chris Valaika.
I really think we'll see Janish at SS in a couple years. >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Since: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 622
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <erhn7b$820$1@posting.glorb.com>,
David.no.Short.DeleteThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please says...
> lifted from http://shawns.blogspot.com/ who lifted it from the reds is the
> list of guys who CAN be optioned to the minors this year.
>
> "It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
> Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston,
> Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock (who I inadvertently left out of
> the bullpen preview), Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad
> Salmon, Brian Shackelford, and Mike Stanton.
>
> No catchers.
>
> Infield: Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger, Joey
> Votto.
>
> Outfield: Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Junior
> Griffey, Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper"
>
> I'm frankly a bit puzzled by some of the names on here. Dumatrait came over
> three years ago and has been on the 40 man roster since he came over. Same
> with Belisle. Perhaps injury time? Same with Rameriz? I don't see how you
> can include rule v pickups, I guess technically they DO have options, but
> you can't option them this year till you really own them. I'm kind shocked
> that Brian Shcakelford has an option left, but yeah looking at his "career"
> he's only been up the last two years. It just seems like he's been yanked
> around forever.
For a lot of these discrepancies, you're looking at injury time.
Dumatrait was on the disabled list for the entirety of the 2004 season,
no? If so, that would not have been an option year - you have to
actually be placed on optional assignment after spring training or
during the season for an option year to be used. If Dumatrait was on
the DL for all of 2004, it's not an option year. The Reds added him to
the roster on 11/20.03, so with no 2004 option, 2005 and 2006 were his
first 2 option years, leaving him with a 3rd.
In Shackleford's case, I don't think he was ever on a 40-man roster
until after 2004.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan.DeleteThis@baseballprimer.REMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is
not a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Posts: 236
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Dan Szymborski" <dan RemoveThis @baseballprimer.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.204bae75aa5f37e9989684@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <erhn7b$820$1@posting.glorb.com>,
> David.no.Short RemoveThis @Wright.spam.Edu.please says...
>> I'm frankly a bit puzzled by some of the names on here. Dumatrait came
>> over
>> three years ago and has been on the 40 man roster since he came over.
>> Same
>> with Belisle. Perhaps injury time? Same with Rameriz? I don't see how you
>> can include rule v pickups, I guess technically they DO have options, but
>> you can't option them this year till you really own them. I'm kind
>> shocked
>> that Brian Shcakelford has an option left, but yeah looking at his
>> "career"
>> he's only been up the last two years. It just seems like he's been yanked
>> around forever.
>
> For a lot of these discrepancies, you're looking at injury time.
> Dumatrait was on the disabled list for the entirety of the 2004 season,
> no? If so, that would not have been an option year - you have to
> actually be placed on optional assignment after spring training or
> during the season for an option year to be used. If Dumatrait was on
> the DL for all of 2004, it's not an option year. The Reds added him to
> the roster on 11/20.03, so with no 2004 option, 2005 and 2006 were his
> first 2 option years, leaving him with a 3rd.
>
> In Shackleford's case, I don't think he was ever on a 40-man roster
> until after 2004.
Thanks. I've got to the point where I understand all the pitchers except
Rameriz.
The only thing I can imagine is that after they sent him down last year and
he brock down after a couple pitches at AAA, they managed to somehow
retroactively call that injury time and not a burned option. That's not how
it was presented at the time, but that's the only way he could still have an
option left.
dfs >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Posts: 622
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <erstro$sd2$1@posting.glorb.com>,
David.No.Short.DeleteThis@Spam.Wright.Please.Edu says...
> "Dan Szymborski" <dan.DeleteThis@baseballprimer.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.204bae75aa5f37e9989684@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > In article <erhn7b$820$1@posting.glorb.com>,
> > David.no.Short.DeleteThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please says...
> >> I'm frankly a bit puzzled by some of the names on here. Dumatrait came
> >> over
> >> three years ago and has been on the 40 man roster since he came over.
> >> Same
> >> with Belisle. Perhaps injury time? Same with Rameriz? I don't see how you
> >> can include rule v pickups, I guess technically they DO have options, but
> >> you can't option them this year till you really own them. I'm kind
> >> shocked
> >> that Brian Shcakelford has an option left, but yeah looking at his
> >> "career"
> >> he's only been up the last two years. It just seems like he's been yanked
> >> around forever.
> >
> > For a lot of these discrepancies, you're looking at injury time.
> > Dumatrait was on the disabled list for the entirety of the 2004 season,
> > no? If so, that would not have been an option year - you have to
> > actually be placed on optional assignment after spring training or
> > during the season for an option year to be used. If Dumatrait was on
> > the DL for all of 2004, it's not an option year. The Reds added him to
> > the roster on 11/20.03, so with no 2004 option, 2005 and 2006 were his
> > first 2 option years, leaving him with a 3rd.
> >
> > In Shackleford's case, I don't think he was ever on a 40-man roster
> > until after 2004.
> Thanks. I've got to the point where I understand all the pitchers except
> Rameriz.
> The only thing I can imagine is that after they sent him down last year and
> he brock down after a couple pitches at AAA, they managed to somehow
> retroactively call that injury time and not a burned option. That's not how
> it was presented at the time, but that's the only way he could still have an
> option left.
If an injury is discovered, team have some leeway to retroactively place
the player on the DL. Once the Lizard is placed on the DL, if that was
his only option, then he no longer uses it.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan.DeleteThis@baseballprimer.REMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is
not a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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Posts: 673
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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From Rob Butcher, the reds' Director of Media Relations (via the Cinci
Posts's Trent Rosecrans on his blog), here's the players on the 40-man
roster with remaining options:
pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby
Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton,
Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and
Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez,
Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris
Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton
and Norris Hopper.
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/ >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"John Kasupski" <kc2hmz RemoveThis @wzrd.com> wrote in message
> From Rob Butcher, the reds' Director of Media Relations (via the Cinci
> Posts's Trent Rosecrans on his blog), here's the players on the 40-man
> roster with remaining options:
>
> pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
> Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby
> Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton,
> Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and
> Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez,
> Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris
> Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton
> and Norris Hopper.
That's the same list I posted a week ago.
dfs >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "David Short"
<David.no.Sh....RemoveThis@Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote:
> "John Kasupski" <kc2....RemoveThis@wzrd.com> wrote in message
> > From Rob Butcher, the reds' Director of Media Relations (via the Cinci
> > Posts's Trent Rosecrans on his blog), here's the players on the 40-man
> > roster with remaining options:
>
> > pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
> > Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby
> > Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton,
> > Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and
> > Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez,
> > Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris
> > Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton
> > and Norris Hopper.
>
> That's the same list I posted a week ago.
>
> dfs
Yeah, but an "active option" does not mean a player is "optionable".
Veterans with 5 seasons experience may well have active options
(meaning they were not optioned 3 times), but they still can't be sent
to the minors without their permission. If they refuse permission the
team can only keep them on the major league roster, put them on
waivers or release them. Either of the latter 2 puts the team on the
hook for remaining salary or in certain circumstances 1/6 of the
salary. >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: Optionable guys.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"The Gnorkmeister" <gnork RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172624578.125100.75160@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "David Short"
> <David.no.Sh... RemoveThis @Wright.spam.Edu.please> wrote:
>> "John Kasupski" <kc2... RemoveThis @wzrd.com> wrote in message
>> > From Rob Butcher, the reds' Director of Media Relations (via the Cinci
>> > Posts's Trent Rosecrans on his blog), here's the players on the 40-man
>> > roster with remaining options:
>>
>> > pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal
>> > Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby
>> > Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton,
>> > Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and
>> > Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez,
>> > Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris
>> > Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton
>> > and Norris Hopper.
>>
>> That's the same list I posted a week ago.
>>
>> dfs
>
> Yeah, but an "active option" does not mean a player is "optionable".
> Veterans with 5 seasons experience may well have active options
> (meaning they were not optioned 3 times), but they still can't be sent
> to the minors without their permission. If they refuse permission the
> team can only keep them on the major league roster, put them on
> waivers or release them. Either of the latter 2 puts the team on the
> hook for remaining salary or in certain circumstances 1/6 of the
> salary.
Next time I post something I'll make sure I get out my spoon so I can
spoonfeed it to you.
No. Wait. I won't.
dfs >> Stay informed about: Optionable guys.... |
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