Your Opinion about Bonds.

punk-tilous wrote:
> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The
Bonds
> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists
claim he
> is being misrepresented by the press.
>
> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
> explanation for your choice.
>
> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.
>
> 2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
>
> 3) Bonds didn't take steroids..


You're putting the words "Bonds" and "steroids" in the same post.
Either you're

a. a racist
b. a non-baseball fan
c. uniformed.
d. All of the above.

There is no other factor.
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

punk-tilous wrote:
> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The Bonds
> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists claim he
> is being misrepresented by the press.
>
> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
> explanation for your choice.
>
> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.

My first post here (and I thought I was subscribing to a baseball NG)
I pick number one. I believe he and many other baseball players have
used precursors such as Andro. These percursors, once metabalised into
smaller combonents (including testosterone) are the same as steroids.
Therefore they can say that they have never used steroids and
technically mean it. Steriod use with proper training WILL produce
quicker reflexes and greater strength while maintaining full range of
motion. Forget the vision of the muscle bound guy who can't even scratch
his butt. Under the guidance of good personal trainers you get awesome
gains in all areas. Side effects not withstanding, steriods are
unbelievable, they do EVERYTHING they are said to be able to do. I have
seen 155 lb. guys jump to 200+ lbs. of solid muscle in a year. Too bad
they will eventually kill you.
All this said though, most of the current "evidence" regarding BB is
circumstantial. Still, my belief is that he did use steriods in what
ever form they were being called at the time.
Claud
Go Braves
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

Chris 'Barry's love Child' Cathcart
You thinkth the man does protest his innocence?

Hmmmm on the Poll It has to be Number ONE


"Chris Cathcart" <cathcacrREVOLMAPS RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9OoTd.10615$x53.4440@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "punk-tilous" <punktilious RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:x8oTd.543$%97.504@news.cpqcorp.net...
>> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The
>> Bonds
>> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists claim
> he
>> is being misrepresented by the press.
>>
>> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
>> explanation for your choice.
>>
>> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.
>>
>> 2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
>>
>> 3) Bonds didn't take steroids..
>
> You still don't get it, do you
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

"Wunnuy" <wunnuy DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1109289546.383735.294120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> punk-tilous wrote:
>> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The
> Bonds
>> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists
> claim he
>> is being misrepresented by the press.
>>
>> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
>> explanation for your choice.
>>
>> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.
>>
>> 2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
>>
>> 3) Bonds didn't take steroids..
>
>
> You're putting the words "Bonds" and "steroids" in the same post.

Big mistake indeed. It should be "steriods".

Yes Bonds did use steriods and he knew full well that they were steriods.

Kenny
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Claud Spinks wrote:

->
->My first post here (and I thought I was subscribing to a baseball NG)
->I pick number one. I believe he and many other baseball players have
->used precursors such as Andro. These percursors, once metabalised into
->smaller combonents (including testosterone) are the same as steroids.

?!

Okay, I'll bite. Explain the physiology here.

--
M. Zaiem Beg zbeg.RemoveThis@iglou.com
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

[punk-tilous (punktilious@hotmail.com)]
[Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:27:57 GMT]

:2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
:
:3) Bonds didn't take steroids..

One of these two, leaning heavily toward 3).

--
Bryan S. Slick, onyx_hokie at yahoo dot com

"There ain't nothing wrong a few cold beers can't iron out
in fact, you tell me just when and where, and I'll buy the first round"

[Terri Clark, "I Think The World Needs a Drink"]
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

Kenny wrote:
> "Wunnuy" <wunnuy RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:1109289546.383735.294120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > punk-tilous wrote:
> >> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us.
The
> > Bonds
> >> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds
apologists
> > claim he
> >> is being misrepresented by the press.
> >>
> >> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
> >> explanation for your choice.
> >>
> >> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.
> >>
> >> 2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
> >>
> >> 3) Bonds didn't take steroids..
> >
> >
> > You're putting the words "Bonds" and "steroids" in the same post.
>
> Big mistake indeed. It should be "steriods".
>
> Yes Bonds did use steriods and he knew full well that they were
steriods.
>
> Kenny

No, no , no, it should be "steriods." <<<<< (period goes INSIDE
quotations) If you're going to make fun of my error, at least be
grammatically correct... ;]
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

In article <MPG.1c88b96187369cb098c884.TakeThisOut@news-40.giganews.com>,
Bryan S. Slick <onyx_hokie.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>[punk-tilous (punktilious@hotmail.com)]
>[Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:27:57 GMT]
>
>:2) Bonds took steroids but he didn't know they were steroids.
>:
>:3) Bonds didn't take steroids..
>
>One of these two, leaning heavily toward 3).
>
I see 1 in the mix as well. Though I can't figure out why
he'd risk a perjury charge when he had immunity.

On balance I'm leaning towards 2. I don't think it's
at all clear.

--
RNJ
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

Chris Cathcart wrote:
> "Claud Spinks" <coachspinks RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ABtTd.66$nM6.55@fe07.lga...
>
>>punk-tilous wrote:
>>
>>>I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The
>
> Bonds
>
>>>detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists
>
> claim he
>
>>>is being misrepresented by the press.
>>>
>>>Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
>>>explanation for your choice.
>>>
>>>1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.
>>
>>My first post here (and I thought I was subscribing to a baseball NG)
>>I pick number one.
>
>
> I take it you also believe, without supporting argument, that he lied to the
> grand jury.
>
> I believe he and many other baseball players have
>
>>used precursors such as Andro. These percursors, once metabalised into
>>smaller combonents (including testosterone) are the same as steroids.
>>Therefore they can say that they have never used steroids and
>>technically mean it. Steriod use with proper training WILL produce
>>quicker reflexes and greater strength while maintaining full range of
>>motion. Forget the vision of the muscle bound guy who can't even scratch
>>his butt. Under the guidance of good personal trainers you get awesome
>>gains in all areas. Side effects not withstanding, steriods are
>>unbelievable, they do EVERYTHING they are said to be able to do.
>
>
> And yet no known concrete instances are forthcoming of sluggers who achieve
> sustained performance gains using steroids or presursors. This doesn't
> trouble you in the slightest?
>
> There has been this picture -- a cartoon fantasy, really -- painted of Bonds
> that he juiced up on 'roids, became Superman overnight, and did all this
> great stuff because of steroids. It's a nice fantasy picture but it's yet
> to actually become reality by anything resembling a good argument consistent
> with known facts.
>
> This doesn't trouble you?
>
>
>>I have
>>seen 155 lb. guys jump to 200+ lbs. of solid muscle in a year. Too bad
>>they will eventually kill you.
>
>
> I have simple question: while doing this kind of thing may be consistent
> with doing steroids, is it also consistent with not doing steroids? (This
> did not even happen in the case of Bonds, BTW. Maybe in the cartoon fantasy
> it did, but I'm talking about reality.)
>
>
>>All this said though, most of the current "evidence" regarding BB is
>>circumstantial. Still, my belief is that he did use steriods in what
>>ever form they were being called at the time.
>
>
> Well, you can answer the question above and address your implicit,
> unsupported belief that he lied to the grand jury.
>
Having read your other posts, I can see that there is no changing your
mind. Therefor I will not spend my evening typing in vain. I will,
however, point out that Mark McGuire admitted that the bottle sitting in
his locker was Andro.
Claud
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

"Wunnuy" <wunnuy.TakeThisOut@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1109352410.709976.77760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kenny wrote:
>> "Wunnuy" <wunnuy.TakeThisOut@netzero.net> wrote in message
>> news:1109289546.383735.294120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > You're putting the words "Bonds" and "steroids" in the same post.
>>
>> Big mistake indeed. It should be "steriods".
>>
>> Yes Bonds did use steriods and he knew full well that they were
> steriods.
>>
>> Kenny
>
> No, no , no, it should be "steriods." <<<<< (period goes INSIDE
> quotations) If you're going to make fun of my error, at least be
> grammatically correct... ;]

I didn't realize we had to be so anal about your spelling errors.

Kenny
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

"Chris Cathcart" <cathcacrREVOLMAPS DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:

>That's a nice start. A concrete instance (this is always a positive) of
>someone who used, in your words, a steroid-precursor. Now, as to
>interpretation of the concrete instance in this case. And it would seem
>ambiguous. It would appear somewhat similar to the known, admitted users
>(Canseco, Giambi, Caminiti), in that McGwire's production was spectacular
>(218 OPS+, 70 HR) in the season in which andro was spotted in his locker.
>Within 3 years, he was beset by enough injuries that he retired.

I think that's an unreasonable reading, though. If you make the
assumption that he only used Andro (or other steroids) in that one season,
the picture is rather different from the other players you mentioned. He
had a long history of injuries- he had missed almost 40% of his teams'
games over the previous five seasons- and outstanding performance (OPS+ of
224, 137, 200, 203, and 168 over those same 5 years). He hit 52 HR in 130
games for Oakland in 1996 and 58 split between the Athletics and Cardinals
in 1997, so there was considerable speculation about whether he'd be able
to break Maris's record if he stayed healthy going into the 1998 season.
If anything, it seems as though McGwire's health improved when he started
using Andro and declined after he gave it up because of the controversy
surrounding his use of it during the 1998 season. (I don't actually
believe that, but it seems more reasonable to me than the suggestion that
Andro use caused his health to decline.)

--
Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (raj@alumni.caltech.edu)
I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by
violent and sudden usurpations. -- James Madison
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

"punk-tilous" <punktilious.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:x8oTd.543$%97.504@news.cpqcorp.net...
> I have read so many post of late regarding Bonds and steroid us. The Bonds
> detractors claims he is as guilty as sin while the Bonds apologists claim
he
> is being misrepresented by the press.
>
> Just wanted to do an informal survey. Please pick one and a short
> explanation for your choice.
>
> 1) Bonds took steroids and he knew they were steroids.

#1 is my answer. I believe he took steroids knowingly and that it elevated
his performance level from HOF caliber to superhuman.

--
"They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter
whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the
truth?" - Dostoevsky
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds. 

In article <%L7Ud.7956$Ba3.523@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Chris Cathcart" <cathcacrREVOLMAPS.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Canseco may have used his entire career from the sounds of it, and so his
> career totals wouldn't have ended up being nearly as good as they were
> without their use. Again, I don't know how this could be put against a
> "test" case.

Ozzie?

--
Hank Gillette
 >> Stay informed about: Your Opinion about Bonds.