NL v. AL

On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> "brianj" <firstp....TakeThisOut@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all.  In the AL, only
> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>
> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team.  Many AL teams
> > build an offense around their DH.  He said we have really never had a
> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH.  Then he gave the example
> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base.  He said
> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
> > didn't work out so well."
>
> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out?  LOL, ummm, ok.   Yeah, Ortiz at first
> has killed the Sox over the past few years.   And Gardenhire still has a
> job?

I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.

brianj
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"brianj" <firstpres.TakeThisOut@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
> out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
> interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
> (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
> the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>
> Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
> interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
> build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
> DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
> really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
> of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
> something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
> didn't work out so well."
>

He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
job?
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

On Jul 1, 1:28 pm, "John Poutre" <mehates....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> "brink" <inva....DeleteThis@invalid.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "John Poutre" <mehates....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
> >> "brianj" <firstp....DeleteThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
> >>news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com....
> >> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> "brianj" <firstp....DeleteThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com....
>
> >>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
> >>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
> >>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
> >>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
> >>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>
> >>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
> >>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
> >>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
> >>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
> >>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
> >>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
> >>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
> >>> > didn't work out so well."
>
> >>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
> >>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
> >>> job?
>
> >> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with.  Ortiz at
> >> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
> >> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons.  He is
> >> not a great 1B.  And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>
> >> -------------------------------------
>
> >> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them either.
> >> He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in this example
> >> is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>
> > One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
> > I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot.  So it's not just his fielding
> > that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he
> > at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>
> > This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for nothing,
> > especially a team as starved for power as the Twins...  it was a bad move
> > by Minny no matter how you slice it.  Not a terrible move as he hadn't
> > shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since then...
> > and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a
> > backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived
> > worth around the league at the time...  if Detroit's management had much
> > more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a
> > bargain basement price too...  I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz
> > jumping for joy...
>
> I agree for the most part about it's not like he was a highly sought after
> guy and I do blame Minn, they had him and should have known better than
> anyone what they had.  And Boston can't act like they "knew" what he would
> be, they got lucky too.
>
> My issue is with Gardenhire's comment about Ortiz not working out so well at
> 1b.  Maybe he meant on Minn, and maybe then he was bad at first???? I don't
> know, I do know in Boston Ortiz is fine at first when he is there.  Not gold
> glove, don't get me wrong but he is not bad or a liability.  Now, I dont'
> think with his knees he could do it full time but for the Interleague games,
> Ortiz was never the problem, it was always how to get Youk in the game with
> Ortiz playing first.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, upon further reflection, let me say that I may have
mischaracterized what Gardenhire said. He did say something like
that, and my assumption was that he was speaking of Ortiz as a
defensive liability. But I have checked his numbers, and they aren't
that bad. So maybe he really was talking about how often Ortiz was
injured when he was with the Twins and was playing 1B.

brianj
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"brianj" <firstpres.RemoveThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> "brianj" <firstp....RemoveThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>
> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
> > didn't work out so well."
>
> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
> job?

I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.

-------------------------------------

and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them either.
He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in this example is
just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
> "brianj" <firstpres DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> "brianj" <firstp... DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>
>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>> > didn't work out so well."
>>
>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>> job?
>
> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them either.
> He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in this example
> is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.

One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt. I'm
sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding that's in
question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he at least in
the past couldn't stay healthy.

This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for nothing,
especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was a bad move by
Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as he hadn't shown
anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since then... and the
fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a backup/platoon guy
with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived worth around the league
at the time... if Detroit's management had much more a of clue than
Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a bargain basement price
too... I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz jumping for joy...

brink
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"brink" <invalid DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
>> "brianj" <firstpres DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "brianj" <firstp... DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>>
>>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
>>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
>>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>>> > didn't work out so well."
>>>
>>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
>>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>>> job?
>>
>> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
>> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
>> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
>> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them either.
>> He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in this example
>> is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>
> One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
> I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding
> that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he
> at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>
> This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for nothing,
> especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was a bad move
> by Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as he hadn't
> shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since then...
> and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a
> backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived
> worth around the league at the time... if Detroit's management had much
> more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a
> bargain basement price too... I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz
> jumping for joy...
>


I might misunderstand you, you are saying he has not had any MVP worth
numbers since leaving Minn.??? I have to guess you mean something else.
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"brink" <invalid RemoveThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "John Poutre" <mehatespam RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
>> "brianj" <firstpres RemoveThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "brianj" <firstp... RemoveThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>>
>>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well in
>>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
>>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>>> > didn't work out so well."
>>>
>>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at first
>>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>>> job?
>>
>> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
>> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
>> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
>> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them either.
>> He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in this example
>> is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>
> One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
> I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding
> that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he
> at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>
> This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for nothing,
> especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was a bad move
> by Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as he hadn't
> shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since then...
> and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a
> backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived
> worth around the league at the time... if Detroit's management had much
> more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a
> bargain basement price too... I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz
> jumping for joy...
>
>

I agree for the most part about it's not like he was a highly sought after
guy and I do blame Minn, they had him and should have known better than
anyone what they had. And Boston can't act like they "knew" what he would
be, they got lucky too.

My issue is with Gardenhire's comment about Ortiz not working out so well at
1b. Maybe he meant on Minn, and maybe then he was bad at first???? I don't
know, I do know in Boston Ortiz is fine at first when he is there. Not gold
glove, don't get me wrong but he is not bad or a liability. Now, I dont'
think with his knees he could do it full time but for the Interleague games,
Ortiz was never the problem, it was always how to get Youk in the game with
Ortiz playing first.
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vCuak.6658$3q7.4614@newsfe15.lga...
> "brink" <invalid DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
>>> "brianj" <firstpres DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "brianj" <firstp... DeleteThis @turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>>>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>>>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>>>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>>>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>>>
>>>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well
>>>> > in
>>>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>>>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>>>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
>>>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>>>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>>>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>>>> > didn't work out so well."
>>>>
>>>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at
>>>> first
>>>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>>>> job?
>>>
>>> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
>>> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
>>> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
>>> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------
>>>
>>> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them
>>> either. He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in
>>> this example is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>>
>> One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
>> I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding
>> that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he
>> at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>>
>> This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for
>> nothing, especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was a
>> bad move by Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as he
>> hadn't shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since
>> then... and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a
>> backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived
>> worth around the league at the time... if Detroit's management had much
>> more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a
>> bargain basement price too... I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz
>> jumping for joy...
>>
>
>
> I might misunderstand you, you are saying he has not had any MVP worth
> numbers since leaving Minn.??? I have to guess you mean something else.

I said he hadn't shown a trace of MVP-worthy numbers before leaving
Minnesota -- he went on his tear about a month into playing in Boston -- has
hardly let up since then.

brink
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"John Poutre" <mehatespam.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:SGuak.6659$3q7.683@newsfe15.lga...
> "brink" <invalid.RemoveThis@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
>>> "brianj" <firstpres.RemoveThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "brianj" <firstp....RemoveThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>>>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>>>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>>>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>>>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>>>
>>>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well
>>>> > in
>>>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>>>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>>>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks, it's
>>>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>>>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>>>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>>>> > didn't work out so well."
>>>>
>>>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at
>>>> first
>>>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>>>> job?
>>>
>>> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
>>> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
>>> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
>>> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------
>>>
>>> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them
>>> either. He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in
>>> this example is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>>
>> One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
>> I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding
>> that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that he
>> at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>>
>> This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for
>> nothing, especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was a
>> bad move by Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as he
>> hadn't shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown since
>> then... and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M as a
>> backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his perceived
>> worth around the league at the time... if Detroit's management had much
>> more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had MVP production at a
>> bargain basement price too... I think 3 years at $6M would've had Ortiz
>> jumping for joy...
>>
>>
>
> I agree for the most part about it's not like he was a highly sought after
> guy and I do blame Minn, they had him and should have known better than
> anyone what they had. And Boston can't act like they "knew" what he would
> be, they got lucky too.

Exactly, I don't blame Minny for not knowing Ortiz had MVP-caliber inside
him -- NOBODY knew that... what is frustrating is that they had to have
known he was capable of slugging .500 and hitting 20 HRs -- he had done that
that season just before they released him!

For a team as power-starved as Minny was (and still is), that's just dumb.
He wasn't headed for a big payday -- they should've given him his raise and
hoped he could build on those numbers -- even maintaining them would've been
worth what he would have commanded.

It wasn't like they were set at DH -- Matt LeCroy replaced him and had a
good season in 2003 but mainly because they platooned him -- Ortiz put up
numbers playing everyday.

brink
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

On Jul 1, 10:50 pm, "brink" <brinknos... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly, I don't blame Minny for not knowing Ortiz had MVP-caliber inside
> him -- NOBODY knew that...  what is frustrating is that they had to have
> known he was capable of slugging .500 and hitting 20 HRs -- he had done that
> that season just before they released him!

From someone who (at the time) wasn't sorry to see Ortiz go, I can't
blame the Minnesota brass at all. Ortiz often looked completely lost
during his time here. He'd have the occasional hot streak, but then
he'd be just a total mess at the plate. I didn't bat an eye when they
let him walk, and I wasn't surprised to see so many other teams pass
on him.

Props to Boston for finding a diamond in the rough.

Matt
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

"brink" <brinknospam.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d0c9fF6pbtU5@mid.individual.net...
>
> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vCuak.6658$3q7.4614@newsfe15.lga...
>> "brink" <invalid.DeleteThis@invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:6cva8dF1uaeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "John Poutre" <mehatespam.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:WFtak.3286$%q.2209@newsfe24.lga...
>>>> "brianj" <firstpres.DeleteThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:99b33fc3-b243-4e93-9d4e-e32a7ec017cf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jul 1, 10:39 am, "John Poutre" <mehates....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "brianj" <firstp....DeleteThis@turtlecreek.net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:7a191792-8296-43a4-8bef-e26fcdbd2ce0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> > If you check out the standings right now, one thing that just jumps
>>>>> > out at you is the fact that in the last 10 games (virtually all
>>>>> > interleague games), there are two NL teams with winning records
>>>>> > (Brewers and Astros are both 6-4), and that is all. In the AL, only
>>>>> > the Blue Jays and the Indians have losing records.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Ron Gardenhire said the other day that one reason the Twins do well
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > interleague play is that they play like a NL team. Many AL teams
>>>>> > build an offense around their DH. He said we have really never had a
>>>>> > DH you could build an offense around, so when we go to NL parks,
>>>>> > it's
>>>>> > really not that big a deal to lose the DH. Then he gave the example
>>>>> > of the Red Sox, who have to put David Ortiz at first base. He said
>>>>> > something like: "You know, we tried that when he was here and it
>>>>> > didn't work out so well."
>>>>>
>>>>> He had Ortiz and he didn't work out? LOL, ummm, ok. Yeah, Ortiz at
>>>>> first
>>>>> has killed the Sox over the past few years. And Gardenhire still has a
>>>>> job?
>>>>
>>>> I think this is something the Red Sox would agree with. Ortiz at
>>>> first has, indeed, not killed the Sox because that's not where he is.
>>>> Papi has only started at 1B 27 times in the past 2 1/2 seasons. He is
>>>> not a great 1B. And that's not why the Red Sox wanted him.
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> and in the NL games, with him being a 1bman, it has not hurt them
>>>> either. He is not a bad first baseman to be honest, and using him in
>>>> this example is just stupid on Gardenhire's part.
>>>
>>> One of the problems Ortiz had with the Twins was constantly being hurt.
>>> I'm sure DHing has helped that a lot. So it's not just his fielding
>>> that's in question (I agree I think he's OK at 1B), it's the fact that
>>> he at least in the past couldn't stay healthy.
>>>
>>> This does not in any way absolve the way the Twins dumped him for
>>> nothing, especially a team as starved for power as the Twins... it was
>>> a bad move by Minny no matter how you slice it. Not a terrible move as
>>> he hadn't shown anything close to the MVP-worthy numbers he's shown
>>> since then... and the fact that he signed with Boston for a year at $1M
>>> as a backup/platoon guy with *Jeremy Giambi* says a lot about his
>>> perceived worth around the league at the time... if Detroit's
>>> management had much more a of clue than Minnesota's, they could've had
>>> MVP production at a bargain basement price too... I think 3 years at
>>> $6M would've had Ortiz jumping for joy...
>>>
>>
>>
>> I might misunderstand you, you are saying he has not had any MVP worth
>> numbers since leaving Minn.??? I have to guess you mean something else.
>
> I said he hadn't shown a trace of MVP-worthy numbers before leaving
> Minnesota -- he went on his tear about a month into playing in Boston --
> has hardly let up since then.
>
> brink

My bad, I read it backwards.
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL 

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:00:24 -0400, "John Poutre"
<mehatespam.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

>"brink" <brinknospam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:6d0c9fF6pbtU5@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> I might misunderstand you, you are saying he has not had any MVP worth
>>> numbers since leaving Minn.??? I have to guess you mean something else.
>>
>> I said he hadn't shown a trace of MVP-worthy numbers before leaving
>> Minnesota -- he went on his tear about a month into playing in Boston --
>> has hardly let up since then.
>>
>
>My bad, I read it backwards.


That's OK, you're a Tigers fan....that sort of stuff is to be
expected.




- Scott Smith: scott.smith.TakeThisOut@iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith
 >> Stay informed about: NL v. AL