This NG will be Folding Soon

"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <greekgod DeleteThis @yeahright.com> wrote in message
news:UaGdna7PhLvmmf3cRVn_vg@giganews.com...
>
> "John" <jlentz DeleteThis @nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:IRR7d.91876$nA6.72324@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Just to let you know this NewsGroup will be deleted soon.
>>
>>
>>
> Will a new alt.sports.baseball.washington-[whatevers] be created around
> the
> same time?

I have to admit that I was basically kidding around. First of all I'm not
the one who sets up Newsgroups. I don't know who is in charge of that, I
wish I'd knew. I was bored when I wrote the original post.

I'm sure this NG will be around until hardly anyone posts in it anymore.
I'm sure there will be a new NG for the Washington DC team, since that would
be likewise.

I'm sorry, I don't wish to add insult to injury. I too if I was a Expos fan
be very disappointed about the move. I am an avid Brewers fan and they have
threaten to move until they built Miller Park. Now the Brewers are
currently in a ownership change. Thou they have a iron clad contract to
stay in Milwaukee and Miller Park until 2030, that doesn't mean the new
owners have to abide by it. I'm sure if they file a suit in the supreme
court they could get themselves free of the rule and move to Los Angeles or
someplace. That be horrible to move another team to LA, they already have
the Dodgers and the Angels, and in San Fran area they have the Giants and
the Athelitcs, so California doesn't need another team. I highly doubt they
would want to move to Montreal because of lack of attendance. If people in
Montreal would have supported the Expos I would think they would still be
there. Besides here in Milwaukee, attendance would be much greater if the
Brewers were a winning team, however it is not at all likely the Brewers
would ever have a winning team while Selig owned it. They have been a bunch
of losers and hope new ownership will make that change.

-John L.
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

Expos attendance was irrelevat; they likely would have moved anyways. They
desperately needed a new stadium, and it wasn't going to happen.

"John" <jlentz.RemoveThis@nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5GY7d.85157$6h7.57438@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <greekgod.RemoveThis@yeahright.com> wrote in message
> news:UaGdna7PhLvmmf3cRVn_vg@giganews.com...
>>
>> "John" <jlentz.RemoveThis@nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:IRR7d.91876$nA6.72324@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>> Just to let you know this NewsGroup will be deleted soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Will a new alt.sports.baseball.washington-[whatevers] be created around
>> the
>> same time?
>
> I have to admit that I was basically kidding around. First of all I'm not
> the one who sets up Newsgroups. I don't know who is in charge of that, I
> wish I'd knew. I was bored when I wrote the original post.
>
> I'm sure this NG will be around until hardly anyone posts in it anymore.
> I'm sure there will be a new NG for the Washington DC team, since that
> would be likewise.
>
> I'm sorry, I don't wish to add insult to injury. I too if I was a Expos
> fan be very disappointed about the move. I am an avid Brewers fan and
> they have threaten to move until they built Miller Park. Now the Brewers
> are currently in a ownership change. Thou they have a iron clad contract
> to stay in Milwaukee and Miller Park until 2030, that doesn't mean the new
> owners have to abide by it. I'm sure if they file a suit in the supreme
> court they could get themselves free of the rule and move to Los Angeles
> or someplace. That be horrible to move another team to LA, they already
> have the Dodgers and the Angels, and in San Fran area they have the Giants
> and the Athelitcs, so California doesn't need another team. I highly
> doubt they would want to move to Montreal because of lack of attendance.
> If people in Montreal would have supported the Expos I would think they
> would still be there. Besides here in Milwaukee, attendance would be much
> greater if the Brewers were a winning team, however it is not at all
> likely the Brewers would ever have a winning team while Selig owned it.
> They have been a bunch of losers and hope new ownership will make that
> change.
>
> -John L.
>
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

The LA Rams group is still around.


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To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

>I'm sorry, I don't wish to add insult to injury. I too if I was a Expos fan
>be very disappointed about the move. I am an avid Brewers fan and they have
>threaten to move until they built Miller Park.

Oh please. The Brewers were never in danger of moving as long as their owner
sat in the commissioners office. They had been in the bottom half of the AL in
attendance for sixteen consecutive years before Miller Park was built and after
the shine was off, the fans stopped coming. as usual.

There was far more justification in contracting the Brewers than there was in
contracting the Twins, A's or Expos.

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

On 04 Oct 2004 15:39:47 GMT, forlornh.TakeThisOut@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
wrote:

>There was far more justification in contracting the Brewers than there was in
>contracting the Twins, A's or Expos.

Rich

Don't you believe that, regardless of the reasons behind the fact,
that with an average of less than 10,000 fans coming to the games in
Montreal, the team needed to be folded or moved? Since the "Loria
debacle", they weren't going to get a new stadium, therefore the fans
weren't going to come out.

What other reasons did MLB need? IMHO - none.

Roberta

>
>Rich Goranson
>Amherst, NY, USA
>
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

>Expos attendance was irrelevat; they likely would have moved anyways. They
>desperately needed a new stadium, and it wasn't going to happen.

Absolutely. When the Braves moved from Milwaukee their attendance was pretty
good. Didn't matter, they were gone anyway.

While they were in Milwaukee, the Braves were in the first half of the league
in attendance 61.5% of the time. Since the move to Atlanta they have only been
in the first half of the league in attendance 47.4% of the time. The Brewers
have been in first place in the league in attendance 23.5% of the time, one of
the worst records in baseball history.

Worst attendance for a team/city combination:

1) St. Louis Browns - 9.5%
2) Boston Braves - 11.5%
3) Washington Senators - 12.7%
4) Tampa Bay Devil Rays - 16.7%
5) Montréal Expos - 20.0%
6) Kansas City A's - 23.1%
7) Milwaukee Brewers - 23.5%
Florida Marlins - 27.3%
9) Seattle Mariners - 29.6%
10) Oakland A's - 30.6%
11) San Diego Padres - 31.4%
12) San Francisco Giants - 32.6%
13) Philadelphia Phillies - 33.0%
14) Minnesota Twins - 34.9%
15) Pittsburgh Pirates - 36.9%

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

>>There was far more justification in contracting the Brewers than there was
>in
>>contracting the Twins, A's or Expos.
>
>Rich
>
>Don't you believe that, regardless of the reasons behind the fact,
>that with an average of less than 10,000 fans coming to the games in
>Montreal, the team needed to be folded or moved? Since the "Loria
>debacle", they weren't going to get a new stadium, therefore the fans
>weren't going to come out.
>
>What other reasons did MLB need? IMHO - none.

You're conveniently forgetting the fact that MLB deliberately **created** the
Loria debacle. That's why Selig and Loria are facing racketeering charges.

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

>The Brewers
>have been in first place in the league in attendance 23.5% of the time, one
>of
>the worst records in baseball history.

Correction. This should read "first half" not first place. The Brewers have
never led the AL or the NL in attendance at any time during their history. The
best they have ever finished is 2nd, back in 1983. 1983 was the last year the
Brewers were in the first half of the league in attendance before Miller Park
was built.

Brewers attendance in Miller Park
2001 - 7th place
2002 - 11th place
2003 - 13th place

The only thing that broke their string of not supporting their team was the one
year when Miller Park opened. The very next year, attendance went back to it's
usual level of empty seats.

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

"John" <jlentz DeleteThis @nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:IRR7d.91876$nA6.72324@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Just to let you know this NewsGroup will be deleted soon.

As long as people post here somewhat regularly, this place ain't goin' away
anytime soon.
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

On 04 Oct 2004 20:14:18 GMT, forlornh.DeleteThis@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
wrote:

>>Don't you believe that, regardless of the reasons behind the fact,
>>that with an average of less than 10,000 fans coming to the games in
>>Montreal, the team needed to be folded or moved? Since the "Loria
>>debacle", they weren't going to get a new stadium, therefore the fans
>>weren't going to come out.
>>
>>What other reasons did MLB need? IMHO - none.
>
>You're conveniently forgetting the fact that MLB deliberately **created** the
>Loria debacle. That's why Selig and Loria are facing racketeering charges.

I didn't forget it. That's why my first sentence included "regardless
of the reasons....".

I am paraphrasing someone famous who said something along the lines of
"I choose to see what is, rather than a hypothetical what should be".
The situation in 2002, 2003 & 2004 was that the team drew poorly. The
solution was a simple, "let's move them to where they may draw
better". It's like ruining a recipe. You cooked it, therefore you were
to blame. However, that doesn't stop you from throwing the food away.

Whether or not you agree with DC as the choice (and I don't), you
can't fault MLB for making the move. Whether or not they conspired to
get to that point is a separate issue. If they are found culpable,
then they will hopefully pay the price....whatever that may be.

So I don't disagree with any of the points made by virtually every
observer on why the Expos got to this point: lousy stadium, fire
sales, team mismanagement, lying management, collusion by MLB, etc.,
etc. I simply agree that the team need to go.

Roberta
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

>So I don't disagree with any of the points made by virtually every
>observer on why the Expos got to this point: lousy stadium, fire
>sales, team mismanagement, lying management, collusion by MLB, etc.,
>etc. I simply agree that the team need to go.
>

So, why weren't the Milwaukee Brewers, which had an attendance record as dismal
as the Expos for a longer period of time getting the same treatment? If you
argue that the Expos had to go using that reasoning then, logically, you also
have to say that the Brewers had to go as well.

The only significant difference between Montréal and Milwaukee is that in the
Brewers' case they had a commissioner who was willing to do absolutely anything
to save the team while in the Expos' case that same commissioner was doing
everything in his power to destroy it.

Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon 

On 05 Oct 2004 16:52:01 GMT, forlornh RemoveThis @aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
wrote:


>So, why weren't the Milwaukee Brewers, which had an attendance record as dismal
>as the Expos for a longer period of time getting the same treatment? If you
>argue that the Expos had to go using that reasoning then, logically, you also
>have to say that the Brewers had to go as well.
>
>The only significant difference between Montréal and Milwaukee is that in the
>Brewers' case they had a commissioner who was willing to do absolutely anything
>to save the team while in the Expos' case that same commissioner was doing
>everything in his power to destroy it.

I think you answered your own question. The commish did it.

Roberta
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On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:24:17 -0400, "Steve" <cutlipfamily RemoveThis @comcast.net> spewed
forth these words of wisdom:

>
>"John" <jlentz RemoveThis @nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:IRR7d.91876$nA6.72324@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Just to let you know this NewsGroup will be deleted soon.
>
>As long as people post here somewhat regularly, this place ain't goin' away
>anytime soon.
>

Yeah, the St. Louis Browns newsgroup is still quite active!

--
"I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet"
Galley
 >> Stay informed about: This NG will be Folding Soon