Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves

And their fans sit there as if it were a tennis match
Not appreciating the effort, booing the smallest miscue
Whiners

We have it good in STL, and so do the players

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65
"Rem Rem" <MrRichDog026.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12377-42743B7F-946@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
> This game was handed to atlanta.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

"Lance Freezeland" <freezelandlaw.nospam.RemoveThis@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:7hjc7199eppn8uv8d02eu5vqbg9shkqmtd@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 01 May 2005 02:07:18 GMT, "Rob Petrie" <r.RemoveThis@att.net> gave us:
> Here was my problem with that call: None of the four umpires on the
> field called it while the play was going on. Instead, they let Pujols
> score all the way from first on Mondesi's errant throw. It was only
> after Bobby Cox came out and argued that they suddenly made the call,
> calling Pujols out and sending Walker back to second.
>
> I don't know whether it was the right call or not. The poor replays
> and picture quality on KPLR didn't give me a very good look at it.
> Pujols' comments on Sunday tend to indicate that the ball did indeed
> hit his foot. But if none of the four saw it during the play, how did
> they suddenly discover it once Cox came out to lawyer them about it?

That can happen when the umpire to whom the call ordinarily belongs doesn't
see it, but one of his partners does. You sometimes see fair/foul home run
calls overruled in that way, when the base umpire loses the ball and
miscalls it and is overruled. It's really no different than an appeal on a
checked swing, actually. The protocol is, you don't overrule unless the guy
whose call it was asks for help. That's probably what happened -- the base
umpire nearest the play, whose call it normally would be, didn't see it for
whatever reason, but someone else, probably the plate umpire, did. When Cox
came out, the base guy asked for help, and somebody piped up and overruled.

Perry
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

Lance Freezeland wrote:

> I don't know whether it was the right call or not.  The poor replays
> and picture quality on KPLR didn't give me a very good look at it.
> Pujols' comments on Sunday tend to indicate that the ball did indeed
> hit his foot.  But if none of the four saw it during the play, how did
> they suddenly discover it once Cox came out to lawyer them about it?

Pardon my ignorance, but could any of the umpires have called the play dead,
or would this be the job of the home plate umpire or crew chief?

I'd guess the "evidence" that the umpires used to decide the play (granted
it was after the fact) was that multiple Braves players (at least three
that I saw) were immediately pointing to Pujols as the play occurred.

I heard Pujols say that he tried to get out of the way of the ball, but felt
it hit his foot. Given this, didn't the umpires get the call right?

Malcolm
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

"Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias.RemoveThis@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:d55ka6$h2h$1@newsreader.wustl.edu...
> Lance Freezeland wrote:
>
> > I don't know whether it was the right call or not. The poor replays
> > and picture quality on KPLR didn't give me a very good look at it.
> > Pujols' comments on Sunday tend to indicate that the ball did indeed
> > hit his foot. But if none of the four saw it during the play, how did
> > they suddenly discover it once Cox came out to lawyer them about it?
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but could any of the umpires have called the play
dead,
> or would this be the job of the home plate umpire or crew chief?

The guy to whom the call belongs (generally the closest base umpire) should
kill the play as soon as the runner is hit. But in this case, he apparently
didn't see it, and as I said in another reply, no other umpire will overrule
unless asked, which isn't going to happen until the play is over. Sounds to
me like they handled it right and the correct call was made.

Perry
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

Rob Petrie wrote:

> 2 runs disappear with the ball-hitting-runner (Pujols), and then the
> ridiculous ball-strike calling by home ump Dale Scott in the bottom half.

I honestly think that Ted Turner himself pays these guys under the table.


--
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
liberty. This much we pledge—and more.

- President John F. Kennedy, Jan. 20, 1961
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

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 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

"Lance Freezeland" <freezelandlaw.nospam.DeleteThis@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:ev4f71hkhmulnmq9ktuv0cogd3ctva32jh@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 11:25:42 -0500, Malcolm Tobias <mtobias.DeleteThis@wustl.edu>
> gave us:
>
>
> >I'd guess the "evidence" that the umpires used to decide the play
(granted
> >it was after the fact) was that multiple Braves players (at least three
> >that I saw) were immediately pointing to Pujols as the play occurred.
>
> If that's the case, then they weren't doing their jobs very well.

That's not evidence they would use in deciding whether it hit the runner's
foot. It IS something that might make a base umpire who made no call decide
he might just have missed something and to ask for help.

It's like the story Ron Luciano told about losing track of a fly ball down
the line that cleared the fence. He had to call SOMETHING, so he gave the
home-run sign. If nothing had happened, he would have shrugged and figured
he made a lucky guess. Since what really happened is the whole defensive
team's bullpen (near the line in the OF) suddenly vaulted over the fence and
charged toward him, he figured he should ask for help.

Perry
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

Lance Freezeland wrote:

>>Pardon my ignorance, but could any of the umpires have called the play
>>dead, or would this be the job of the home plate umpire or crew chief?
>
> Since the play is between first and second, I'd assume that either the
> first or second base umpires could have made the call.

I just wasn't sure if the other umpires had the power to declare a play
dead. If that were the case, even if the first or second base umpires saw
the ball hit Pujols, the play couldn't be declared dead until after all the
umpires consulted each other.

Chances are I'm way off base (sorry about the pun) in assuming that the
other umpires can't declare a play dead.

>>I'd guess the "evidence" that the umpires used to decide the play (granted
>>it was after the fact) was that multiple Braves players (at least three
>>that I saw) were immediately pointing to Pujols as the play occurred.
>
> If that's the case, then they weren't doing their jobs very well.

It's happened before.

>>I heard Pujols say that he tried to get out of the way of the ball, but
>>felt
>>it hit his foot. Given this, didn't the umpires get the call right?
>
> I conceded in my original post that Pujols' remarks indicated that it
> did indeed hit his foot. My problem was their methodology.

Something tells me I shouldn't argue semantics with a lawyer, but you said:

>>> I don't know whether it was the right call or not.  The poor replays
>>> and picture quality on KPLR didn't give me a very good look at it.
>>> Pujols' comments on Sunday tend to indicate that the ball did indeed
>>> hit his foot.

It appeared to me you were questioning the accuracy of the call, not the
methodology.

Here's another hypothetical: what if the second base umpire saw the ball hit
Pujols, but since Pujols was closer to the first base umpire at the time he
didn't call anything (I really don't remember if Pujols was closer to first
or second at the time, but reverse the umpires if I'm incorrect) assuming
the call is the closest umpire's to make. In this case the play could only
be corrected after the fact, no?

Malcolm
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves 

"Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias.DeleteThis@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:d586o9$r5r$1@newsreader.wustl.edu...
> Lance Freezeland wrote:
>
> >>Pardon my ignorance, but could any of the umpires have called the play
> >>dead, or would this be the job of the home plate umpire or crew chief?
> >
> > Since the play is between first and second, I'd assume that either the
> > first or second base umpires could have made the call.
>
> I just wasn't sure if the other umpires had the power to declare a play
> dead. If that were the case, even if the first or second base umpires saw
> the ball hit Pujols, the play couldn't be declared dead until after all
the
> umpires consulted each other.
>
> Chances are I'm way off base (sorry about the pun) in assuming that the
> other umpires can't declare a play dead.

As I said yesterday, if the base umpire saw the ball hit the runner, the
proper mechanic is to kill the play immediately. Then you call the runner
out, put the batter at first base, and return all other runners to their
original bases. If he let the play continue, it's because he didn't see the
ball hit the runner. After the play was over, he was asked to get help and
did. That's exactly the right way to handle it.

Perry
 >> Stay informed about: Mondesi ends it. Horrible 7th inn. on both halves