Mike Matheny's record streak of 252 consecutive games with..

Rob Petrie wrote:
<snip>
> And yet, some people on this ng think he is a 'bad' catcher just
> because he doesn't hit .300 or smash 30+ HRs per year.
<snip>

Pretty much, yeah. I wouldn't mind him, except he's both bad and
overpaid, at close to $5 million a year.

Yet he has basically the same defensive and offensive stats as Molina
does. Who makes what, the minimum? And of course, Molina can actually
throw out basestealers. Matheny is a pretty mediocre 25% this year.

Also, to put it in perspective, the average catcher probably only
makes 3-4 errors a year, most of them throwing errors, which are just
essentially extra bases. I mean, think about it - the ball is never
really ever hit to them, they only field either bunts or popups,
neither is particularly difficult. So which is worse, a guy that gives
up 3-5 more extra bases a year on errors, but hits 50-70 more extra
bases, or Matheny? Matheny.
 >> Stay informed about: Mike Matheny's record streak of 252 consecutive games with.. 

"Lance Freezeland" <freezelandlaw.nospam.TakeThisOut@consolidated.net> wrote in message news:<2nig0qF1a0bdU1.TakeThisOut@uni-berlin.de>...
> "Rob Petrie" <r.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
> news:OKTQc.13520$Jp6.12949@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> > Mike Matheny saw his major league baseball record of 252 consecutive
> games
> > without an error come to an end Wed. Aug. 4, with a wild throw to 2b
> on a SB
> > attempt.
>
> > His last error before Aug. 4, 2004 was Aug. 1, 2002--over 2 years.
>
> > In 2003, he played in 138 games without an error which included 823
> total
> > chances (774 putouts, 49 assists), for a perfect 1.000 Fielding
> Average.
>
> > And yet, some people on this ng think he is a 'bad' catcher just
> because he
> > doesn't hit .300 or smash 30+ HRs per year.
>
> Errors are a poor measure of defense.

Errors can be a poor measure in the sense that you can't just look at
that stat and judge defensive skills, but it's ridiculous to say that
they can't be mentioned in the proper context. For instance, it was
astounding that Ozzie Smith could do so many things on the field and
play with reckless abandon at short yet rarely commit an error. In the
case of Matheny it's not ridiculous for people to pay him his due for
lack of passed balls and errors.

>
> > Yet, he is hitting a decent .258 which is better than Sanders (.252)
> or
> > Anderson (.230).
>
> Well, first of all, BA is a poor measure of offensive production, but
> since you've been told that a thousand times and haven't figured it
> out yet,


Again, in context. You have probably been told a thousand times you
can't just look at OBP or OPS in every case and proclaim one hitter
better than another, yet if I'm not mistaken you are part of the crowd
of whom one thought it was sound baseball to take Lankford off the DL
and stick him in the leadoff spot, benching Mabry and Womack and
ignoring the hole in the outfield that Walt addressed with Larry
Walker, because Lankford had 20 something walks at that point.




I don't expect a conversion any time soon. That said,
> however, what's so "decent" about .258? It's below league average.
>
> > Plus 14 W's which also beat Anderson's 12.
>
> In 67 more plate appearances. Wow, what an amazing hitter he is. He
> has two more walks than Marlon "Shuffle N Scratch" Anderson.




Although I don't feel that Matheny's a great hitter, and I get
nauseated watching him back out with his left foot like the scared fat
kid on the LL team, it's not exactly earth shattering that a manager
would put in a veteran catcher because he feels more comfortable with
his handling of the pitchers and his defense. Do you remember what
happened the year Matheny cartoonishly sliced his hand open? RIP
Ankiel's career?

Sure, we'd all rather have Pudge, all salaries being equal. But it's
just part of LaRussa's style to be OK with a weak hitting catcher as
long as he has the glove, and some say Matheny may be the best in the
business right now as far as that goes. And as a sidenote, it should
be said that Matheny has supposedly improved his swing as of late, and
throughout his career I believe he has done fairly well against
lefties.
 >> Stay informed about: Mike Matheny's record streak of 252 consecutive games with.. 

Matheny's awesome, as long as he stays away from the hunting knives. .
..Please don't send him any birthday presents until AFTER the playoffs. ; P
 >> Stay informed about: Mike Matheny's record streak of 252 consecutive games with.. 

"Jeremy Reaban" <jer DeleteThis @connectria.com> wrote in message news:<10h87efrkj05fdf DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>...

> Also, to put it in perspective, the average catcher probably only
> makes 3-4 errors a year, most of them throwing errors, which are just
> essentially extra bases. I mean, think about it - the ball is never
> really ever hit to them, they only field either bunts or popups,
> neither is particularly difficult. So which is worse, a guy that gives
> up 3-5 more extra bases a year on errors, but hits 50-70 more extra
> bases, or Matheny? Matheny.

What is the logic behind Bill James giving catchers the most defensive
value points on Hall of Fame metrics? The catcher gets 20 points.
Next highest is shortstop with 16. First base gets 1. Designated
hitters get 0 of course. What the heck, you get 20 points just for
being a catcher even if you lead the league in passed balls and never
throw anyone out?

Regarding the hunting knife incident, did we really make it through
"Mike Matheny Fishing Lure Night" without someone here posting any
quips about the promotion?
 >> Stay informed about: Mike Matheny's record streak of 252 consecutive games with.. 

<tmanx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:26d0da9.0408062005.772c46d6@posting.google.com...

> Although I don't feel that Matheny's a great hitter, and I get
> nauseated watching him back out with his left foot like the scared
fat
> kid on the LL team, it's not exactly earth shattering that a manager
> would put in a veteran catcher because he feels more comfortable
with
> his handling of the pitchers and his defense. Do you remember what
> happened the year Matheny cartoonishly sliced his hand open? RIP
> Ankiel's career?

Correlation, yes; causation, no.

I remember that in that year (2000), we were all told that Mike
Matheny was a great handler of pitchers, which is sort of the same
point you're making right now. The problem with that assertion was
that the very same pitchers pitched better, as measured by CERA, when
Eli Marrero was catching. And they also pitched better, as measured
by CERA, when Carlos Hernandez was catching. Of course, in the spring
of 2001, when Joe Buck was carrying on about how the Cardinals
pitchers say that Matheny makes them pitch better, I called into KMOX
to point this little fact out. He hung up on me, and castigated me as
the "stats guy", saying that he'd take the word of geniuses like
Garrett Stephenson over what the stats said.

--
Lance

"I believe in the Church of Baseball" Annie Savoy
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