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Next: Midseason Report Card - Position Players
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 216
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:35 pm
Post subject: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>mn-twins (more info?)
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Report card continued
Matt
STARTERS (Overall grade - B-)
Livan Hernandez - D
I don't care about nine wins. This guy is throwing batting practice,
and there's no reason to believe that will change. He's taking up a
rotation spot that should be going to Liriano, whose lights-out
pitching in AAA is being wasted. And I really should give Livan and
his 5.44/1.62 (ERA/WHIP) a lower grade than that.
Scott Baker - A-
Missed a big chunk of time, but who is going to argue with 3.32/1.18?
I was never a big believer in Baker, but am happy to be wrong.
Nick Blackburn - A-
His numbers aren't quite the equal of Baker's, but who expected this
much out of the rookie? 3.72/1.28 is okay in my book.
Kevin Slowey - C+
Jeckyll & Hyde. He'll be lights-out one game and rotten the next. He
was supposed to be the better prospect (compared to Blackburn) but has
yet to show why.
Glen Perkins - C
Perkins has been playing with fire. The 4.27 ERA isn't bad, but the
WHIP of 1.48 is almost Livanesque. It's too high, and eventually
Perkins will pay the price. He belongs in the bullpen in favor of
Liriano right now (well Hernandez belongs on the waiver wire in favor
of Liriano, but ...)
Boof Bonser (as a starter) - F
Boof was a disaster as a starter. ERA of 5.97 as a starter.
BULLPEN (Overall grade - C+)
Joe Nathan - A+
Dude's filthy. 1.19/0.96. That's fantastic. It won't happen, but he
should at least get into the Cy Young discussion.
Matt Guerrier - B
He probably had an A- going until the other night, though he did
bounce back nicely. You can't argue with the ERA of 3.42, though the
WHIP of 1.36 is cause for concern
Jesse Crain - B+
He seems to do best when he starts an inning. Doesn't look to have
quite the stuff he did before his injury, but he's getting the job
done at 2.61/1.37.
Dennys Reyes - A-
He gets the job done. He's got a role and he fills it well. 2.81/1.17.
Brian Bass - D+
5.27/1.60 - yikes. This guy doesn't cut it, and Gardy seems to be the
only one who hasn't heard the news.
Craig Breslow - A-
This guy has been a nice pickup. Only 20 and 2/3rds innings since
coming over, but the numbers are good - 2.18/1.26
Boof Bonser (as a reliever) - F-
ERA as a reliever, 8.80. Yeah, F doesn't quite cover it.
Pat Neshek - INCOMPLETE
Neshek's numbers are hardly worth looking at with just 13 innings and
him on the shelf for the year. But the Twins do miss him, there can be
no doubt about that. >> Stay informed about: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers |
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Since: May 12, 2007 Posts: 96
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 12, 1:35�am, Matt <AcesWi... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Report card continued
>
> Matt
>
> STARTERS (Overall grade - B-)
> Livan Hernandez - D
> I don't care about nine wins. This guy is throwing batting practice,
> and there's no reason to believe that will change. He's taking up a
> rotation spot that should be going to Liriano, whose lights-out
> pitching in AAA is being wasted. And I really should give Livan and
> his 5.44/1.62 (ERA/WHIP) a lower grade than that.
>
> Scott Baker - A-
> Missed a big chunk of time, but who is going to argue with 3.32/1.18?
> I was never a big believer in Baker, but am happy to be wrong.
>
> Nick Blackburn - A-
> His numbers aren't quite the equal of Baker's, but who expected this
> much out of the rookie? 3.72/1.28 is okay in my book.
>
> Kevin Slowey - C+
> Jeckyll & Hyde. He'll be lights-out one game and rotten the next. He
> was supposed to be the better prospect (compared to Blackburn) but has
> yet to show why.
>
> Glen Perkins - C
> Perkins has been playing with fire. The 4.27 ERA isn't bad, but the
> WHIP of 1.48 is almost Livanesque. It's too high, and eventually
> Perkins will pay the price. He belongs in the bullpen in favor of
> Liriano right now (well Hernandez belongs on the waiver wire in favor
> of Liriano, but ...)
>
> Boof Bonser (as a starter) - F
> Boof was a disaster as a starter. ERA of 5.97 as a starter.
>
> BULLPEN (Overall grade - C+)
> Joe Nathan - A+
> Dude's filthy. 1.19/0.96. That's fantastic. It won't happen, but he
> should at least get into the Cy Young discussion.
>
> Matt Guerrier - B
> He probably had an A- going until the other night, though he did
> bounce back nicely. You can't argue with the ERA of 3.42, though the
> WHIP of 1.36 is cause for concern
>
> Jesse Crain - B+
> He seems to do best when he starts an inning. Doesn't look to have
> quite the stuff he did before his injury, but he's getting the job
> done at 2.61/1.37.
>
> Dennys Reyes - A-
> He gets the job done. He's got a role and he fills it well. 2.81/1.17.
>
> Brian Bass - D+
> 5.27/1.60 - yikes. This guy doesn't cut it, and Gardy seems to be the
> only one who hasn't heard the news.
>
> Craig Breslow - A-
> This guy has been a nice pickup. Only 20 and 2/3rds innings since
> coming over, but the numbers are good - 2.18/1.26
>
> Boof Bonser (as a reliever) - F-
> ERA as a reliever, 8.80. Yeah, F doesn't quite cover it.
>
> Pat Neshek - INCOMPLETE
> Neshek's numbers are hardly worth looking at with just 13 innings and
> him on the shelf for the year. But the Twins do miss him, there can be
> no doubt about that.
Hey Matt,
That's a good rundown of the first half pitching. I hope you are right
about Liriano. I hope he comes back in the second half of the season
and stays healthy. He is so much fun to watch when he is healthy and
pitching well.
David >> Stay informed about: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers |
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Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 559
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 12, 12:35 am, Matt <AcesWi....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Report card continued
>
> Matt
>
> STARTERS (Overall grade - B-)
> Livan Hernandez - D
> I don't care about nine wins. This guy is throwing batting practice,
> and there's no reason to believe that will change. He's taking up a
> rotation spot that should be going to Liriano, whose lights-out
> pitching in AAA is being wasted. And I really should give Livan and
> his 5.44/1.62 (ERA/WHIP) a lower grade than that.
Well said. Any team with veteran hitters will tag this guy. Looks like
he will be pitching vs. the Yankees in Yankee stadium on the 23rd,
then face the White Sox in the Dome later this month. Suppose the
Twins take a 4-0 lead against the Yankees in the first inning that
day. I'd bet anybody $100 that the Yankees come back against Livan.
They'll just wait for their pitch and clobber it.
> Scott Baker - A-
> Missed a big chunk of time, but who is going to argue with 3.32/1.18?
> I was never a big believer in Baker, but am happy to be wrong.
Yay! (Remember the Garza vs. Baker discussions last year?) He's kind
of a mystery in that he doesn't really have a go-to pitch. But he just
pitches well almost every outing.
> Nick Blackburn - A-
> His numbers aren't quite the equal of Baker's, but who expected this
> much out of the rookie? 3.72/1.28 is okay in my book.
I might have given him a B+ instead. You know he won't get pounded,
but that's about it. I really haven't developed confidence when he
takes the mound.
> Kevin Slowey - C+
> Jeckyll & Hyde. He'll be lights-out one game and rotten the next. He
> was supposed to be the better prospect (compared to Blackburn) but has
> yet to show why.
Well, two complete games is pretty good. Less hits than IP is pretty
good. I'd say a B-. His weakness is the HR ball. But you're right that
you don't know which one of the Slowey's will show up.
> Glen Perkins - C
> Perkins has been playing with fire. The 4.27 ERA isn't bad, but the
> WHIP of 1.48 is almost Livanesque. It's too high, and eventually
> Perkins will pay the price. He belongs in the bullpen in favor of
> Liriano right now (well Hernandez belongs on the waiver wire in favor
> of Liriano, but ...)
I'm thinking C+. Last night's game lowered his ERA to 4.14, a
respectable number for the AL (AL avg. ERA is 4.11). His WHIP is
worrisome, true. Very odd is his inability to get out lefties. His
WHIP/BAA vs. lefties is 2.33/.389; vs. righties it's 1.30/.282.
> Boof Bonser (as a starter) - F
> Boof was a disaster as a starter. ERA of 5.97 as a starter.
Boof as reliever- F His ERA has actually gone up since he went to the
pen.
> BULLPEN (Overall grade - C+)
> Joe Nathan - A+
> Dude's filthy. 1.19/0.96. That's fantastic.
Amen.
> It won't happen, but he
> should at least get into the Cy Young discussion.
He's 10th on ESPN's Cy Predictor.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy
> Matt Guerrier - B
> He probably had an A- going until the other night, though he did
> bounce back nicely. You can't argue with the ERA of 3.42, though the
> WHIP of 1.36 is cause for concern
Like Baker, another guy with just average stuff, but he consistently
gets the job done. Failing in Fenway vs. Manny/Lowell/Youkilis isn't
damning, just unfortunate.
> Jesse Crain - B+
> He seems to do best when he starts an inning. Doesn't look to have
> quite the stuff he did before his injury, but he's getting the job
> done at 2.61/1.37.
A pleasant surprise. The strikeout numbers are almost back to where
they were before the injury.
> Dennys Reyes - A-
> He gets the job done. He's got a role and he fills it well. 2.81/1.17.
So why do I worry whenever he comes into a ballgame?
> Brian Bass - D+
> 5.27/1.60 - yikes. This guy doesn't cut it, and Gardy seems to be the
> only one who hasn't heard the news.
Yep.
> Craig Breslow - A-
> This guy has been a nice pickup. Only 20 and 2/3rds innings since
> coming over, but the numbers are good - 2.18/1.26
Ironically the guy is death to righties. They have an OPS of .523 vs.
Breslow.
> Boof Bonser (as a reliever) - F-
> ERA as a reliever, 8.80. Yeah, F doesn't quite cover it.
Ahh, I see you covered Boof as a reliever.
> Pat Neshek - INCOMPLETE
> Neshek's numbers are hardly worth looking at with just 13 innings and
> him on the shelf for the year. But the Twins do miss him, there can be
> no doubt about that.
Yep, very much so.
Good post. >> Stay informed about: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers |
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Since: Nov 27, 2007 Posts: 660
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:35:31 -0700 (PDT), Matt <AcesWired DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:
>Report card continued
>
>Matt
Well done. I agree with most of your grading, unless noted below.
>STARTERS (Overall grade - B-)
>
>Livan Hernandez - D
>I don't care about nine wins. This guy is throwing batting practice,
>and there's no reason to believe that will change. He's taking up a
>rotation spot that should be going to Liriano, whose lights-out
>pitching in AAA is being wasted. And I really should give Livan and
>his 5.44/1.62 (ERA/WHIP) a lower grade than that.
I'd give Livan a big fat 'F' for his last few games. He started the
season well, then went right into the toilet.
Can anyone say "Ramon Ortiz"?
>Scott Baker - A-
>Missed a big chunk of time, but who is going to argue with 3.32/1.18?
>I was never a big believer in Baker, but am happy to be wrong.
>
>Nick Blackburn - A-
>His numbers aren't quite the equal of Baker's, but who expected this
>much out of the rookie? 3.72/1.28 is okay in my book.
>
>Kevin Slowey - C+
>Jeckyll & Hyde. He'll be lights-out one game and rotten the next. He
>was supposed to be the better prospect (compared to Blackburn) but has
>yet to show why.
>
>Glen Perkins - C
>Perkins has been playing with fire. The 4.27 ERA isn't bad, but the
>WHIP of 1.48 is almost Livanesque. It's too high, and eventually
>Perkins will pay the price. He belongs in the bullpen in favor of
>Liriano right now (well Hernandez belongs on the waiver wire in favor
>of Liriano, but ...)
I'd give Perkins at least a C+, his last couple games have been
pretty decent. I think he'll improve even more as his confidence
builds.
>Boof Bonser (as a starter) - F
>Boof was a disaster as a starter. ERA of 5.97 as a starter.
Boof, put the weight back on....please!
>BULLPEN (Overall grade - C+)
>
>Joe Nathan - A+
>Dude's filthy. 1.19/0.96. That's fantastic. It won't happen, but he
>should at least get into the Cy Young discussion.
>
>Matt Guerrier - B
>He probably had an A- going until the other night, though he did
>bounce back nicely. You can't argue with the ERA of 3.42, though the
>WHIP of 1.36 is cause for concern
>
>Jesse Crain - B+
>He seems to do best when he starts an inning. Doesn't look to have
>quite the stuff he did before his injury, but he's getting the job
>done at 2.61/1.37.
>
>Dennys Reyes - A-
>He gets the job done. He's got a role and he fills it well. 2.81/1.17.
>
>Brian Bass - D+
>5.27/1.60 - yikes. This guy doesn't cut it, and Gardy seems to be the
>only one who hasn't heard the news.
Yes, Bass needs to go back down to AAA. Problem is, who do they
replace him with?
>Craig Breslow - A-
>This guy has been a nice pickup. Only 20 and 2/3rds innings since
>coming over, but the numbers are good - 2.18/1.26
>
>Boof Bonser (as a reliever) - F-
>ERA as a reliever, 8.80. Yeah, F doesn't quite cover it.
>
>Pat Neshek - INCOMPLETE
>Neshek's numbers are hardly worth looking at with just 13 innings and
>him on the shelf for the year. But the Twins do miss him, there can be
>no doubt about that.
Let's hope Neshek can come back next year and get back to form. He
is greatly missed in the pen this season!
- Scott Smith: scott.smith DeleteThis @iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith >> Stay informed about: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers |
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Since: Sep 10, 2007 Posts: 295
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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powrwrap wrote:
>
> On Jul 12, 12:35 am, Matt <AcesWi....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nick Blackburn - A-
>> His numbers aren't quite the equal of Baker's, but who expected this
>> much out of the rookie? 3.72/1.28 is okay in my book.
>
> I might have given him a B+ instead. You know he won't get pounded,
> but that's about it. I really haven't developed confidence when he
> takes the mound.
>
>
>> Kevin Slowey - C+
>> Jeckyll & Hyde. He'll be lights-out one game and rotten the next. He
>> was supposed to be the better prospect (compared to Blackburn) but
>> has yet to show why.
>
> Well, two complete games is pretty good. Less hits than IP is pretty
> good. I'd say a B-. His weakness is the HR ball. But you're right that
> you don't know which one of the Slowey's will show up.
>
>
>> Glen Perkins - C
>> Perkins has been playing with fire. The 4.27 ERA isn't bad, but the
>> WHIP of 1.48 is almost Livanesque. It's too high, and eventually
>> Perkins will pay the price. He belongs in the bullpen in favor of
>> Liriano right now (well Hernandez belongs on the waiver wire in favor
>> of Liriano, but ...)
>
> I'm thinking C+. Last night's game lowered his ERA to 4.14, a
> respectable number for the AL (AL avg. ERA is 4.11). His WHIP is
> worrisome, true. Very odd is his inability to get out lefties. His
> WHIP/BAA vs. lefties is 2.33/.389; vs. righties it's 1.30/.282.
I think you're underrating all three, esp if we're grading on a curve of
expectations. Perkins merits at least a B, Slowey at least a B+,
Blackburn's a solid A.
I guess you can make the case that Perkins is outpitching his peripherals
but for me it's all about results and the ERA doesn't lie. I don't care if
a guy's WHIP is 3.00 if his ERA is 1.00...
>
>> Boof Bonser (as a starter) - F
>> Boof was a disaster as a starter. ERA of 5.97 as a starter.
>
> Boof as reliever- F His ERA has actually gone up since he went to the
> pen.
>
>> BULLPEN (Overall grade - C+)
>> Joe Nathan - A+
>> Dude's filthy. 1.19/0.96. That's fantastic.
>
> Amen.
>
>> It won't happen, but he
>> should at least get into the Cy Young discussion.
>
>
> He's 10th on ESPN's Cy Predictor.
> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy
Joe was 4th in Cy voting in 2004, 5th in 2006. Not to mention 12th in MVP
voting (!!) in 2004, 18th in 2006.
He's quietly putting together a possible run at the HOF, but will need many
more years of dominance to get a shot. He got a late start as he didn't
start closing until age 29 and middle relievers just don't get to make a
case for the HOF...
Winning a Cy would be a big help for his case, and winning that would take a
lot of breaks, mainly the other top guys falling off their game. Closers of
course rarely get a Cy unless they break some spectacular record like Gagne
or Eckersly did... of course Twins fans know that Eck not only walked away
with the Cy in 1992, he won the MVP over -- guess who -- Kirby...
brink >> Stay informed about: Midseason Report Card - Pitchers |
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