Mets' pitching coach

On Aug 12, 5:25 am, O'Bob <O'...@nospam.com> wrote:
> You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
> to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
> concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
> overused and tired, but there is no alternative. Warthen has to figure
> out what's going wrong and fix it, or at least minimize damage.
>
> As for overuse, other teams should have the same problem, but the Mets
> can't seem to pull off the same kind of 6-run-back wins on them. Given
> the number of games given up in dramatic fashion, there must be
> something wrong aside from overwork.
>
> It would be interesting to see comparative stats on this. I heard a
> stat something like "Mets have lost at least 6 times by giving up
> 5-run leads, but have not come from behind in similar fashion even
> once."

I'm leaving out June because I don't feel like going game by game to
break this out . . .

Dan Warthen (July/August)
Team ERA - 4.02
Starters ERA - 3.38
Relievers ERA - 5.33

Rick Peterson (April/May)
Team ERA - 4.12
Starters ERA - 4.58
Relievers ERA - 3.70

In June (the split month), the Team ERA was 4.30. The starters were
at 4.22 and the bullpen was at 4.43.

Clearly Peterson needs to be rehired to work with relievers and
Warthen can keep working with the starters. Overall, the staff really
hasn't performed appreciably better under Warthen then it did under
Peterson.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

He also doesn't proclaim to fix someone in ten minutes.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

O'Bob wrote:
> You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
> to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
> concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
> overused and tired, but there is no alternative. Warthen has to figure
> out what's going wrong and fix it, or at least minimize damage.
>
> As for overuse, other teams should have the same problem, but the Mets
> can't seem to pull off the same kind of 6-run-back wins on them. Given
> the number of games given up in dramatic fashion, there must be
> something wrong aside from overwork.
>
> It would be interesting to see comparative stats on this. I heard a
> stat something like "Mets have lost at least 6 times by giving up
> 5-run leads, but have not come from behind in similar fashion even
> once."

I don't have the numbers, but they've said on the SNY telecast a few
times already that the Mets lead the league (and I think the majors) in
relief appearances. Just in the past 3 days they've used 14 relief
pitchers.

Not sure how this compares to other teams, but the 5 primary Mets
starters (Santana, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine, Martinez) average 5.9 innings
per start as a group, which means the bullpen has to get an average of
9+ outs a game.

If you throw out Santana, it works out to 5.67 innings per start
for basically 4 out of every 5 games - meaning 10 outs for the bullpen
on those days. A scary scenario when they're pitching as badly as they
are now...

Definitely time to try Kunz out in some big spots - can't do much worse.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

"jonathan" <jmerin77.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8ce7c09-4303-4a53-921a-c0c426b8c8fb@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 12, 5:25 am, O'Bob <O'...@nospam.com> wrote:
> You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
> to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
> concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
> overused and tired, but there is no alternative. Warthen has to figure
> out what's going wrong and fix it, or at least minimize damage.
>
> As for overuse, other teams should have the same problem, but the Mets
> can't seem to pull off the same kind of 6-run-back wins on them. Given
> the number of games given up in dramatic fashion, there must be
> something wrong aside from overwork.
>
> It would be interesting to see comparative stats on this. I heard a
> stat something like "Mets have lost at least 6 times by giving up
> 5-run leads, but have not come from behind in similar fashion even
> once."

I'm leaving out June because I don't feel like going game by game to
break this out . . .

Dan Warthen (July/August)
Team ERA - 4.02
Starters ERA - 3.38
Relievers ERA - 5.33

Rick Peterson (April/May)
Team ERA - 4.12
Starters ERA - 4.58
Relievers ERA - 3.70

--------------------------

The other thing not accounted for here is the idea of succession; i.e.,
Warthen's months haven't occurred in a vacuum -- they followed Peterson's.
In other words, the bullpen in July and August might be reflecting the wear
and tear of usage in April and May.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:52:50 -0400, tmp <tmp RemoveThis @nowhere.net> wrote:

>O'Bob wrote:
>> You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
>> to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
>> concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
>> overused and tired, but there is no alternative. Warthen has to figure
>> out what's going wrong and fix it, or at least minimize damage.
>>
>> As for overuse, other teams should have the same problem, but the Mets
>> can't seem to pull off the same kind of 6-run-back wins on them. Given
>> the number of games given up in dramatic fashion, there must be
>> something wrong aside from overwork.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see comparative stats on this. I heard a
>> stat something like "Mets have lost at least 6 times by giving up
>> 5-run leads, but have not come from behind in similar fashion even
>> once."
>
>I don't have the numbers, but they've said on the SNY telecast a few
>times already that the Mets lead the league (and I think the majors) in
>relief appearances. Just in the past 3 days they've used 14 relief
>pitchers.

You know, you guys got it backwards. It's not that the pen is
overused and therefore it stinks. It is overused BECAUSE it stinks.
Jerry needs to keep pulling relievers out because they are throwing
batting practices out there. Jerry doesn't have anybody that can
pitch a clean inning, let alone two, to perserve the bullpen.

>
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Aug 12, 12:59 pm, "Micheal Ray" <m....RemoveThis@spamspam.com> wrote:
> "jonathan" <jmeri....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d8ce7c09-4303-4a53-921a-c0c426b8c8fb@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 12, 5:25 am, O'Bob <O'...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
> > to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
> > concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
> > overused and tired, but there is no alternative. Warthen has to figure
> > out what's going wrong and fix it, or at least minimize damage.
>
> > As for overuse, other teams should have the same problem, but the Mets
> > can't seem to pull off the same kind of 6-run-back wins on them. Given
> > the number of games given up in dramatic fashion, there must be
> > something wrong aside from overwork.
>
> > It would be interesting to see comparative stats on this. I heard a
> > stat something like "Mets have lost at least 6 times by giving up
> > 5-run leads, but have not come from behind in similar fashion even
> > once."
>
> I'm leaving out June because I don't feel like going game by game to
> break this out . . .
>
> Dan Warthen (July/August)
> Team ERA - 4.02
> Starters ERA - 3.38
> Relievers ERA - 5.33
>
> Rick Peterson (April/May)
> Team ERA - 4.12
> Starters ERA - 4.58
> Relievers ERA - 3.70
>
> --------------------------
>
> The other thing not accounted for here is the idea of succession; i.e.,
> Warthen's months haven't occurred in a vacuum -- they followed Peterson's..
> In other words, the bullpen in July and August might be reflecting the wear
> and tear of usage in April and May.

Well you can argue that Randolph/Peterson went to the bullpen more
often early, thereby burning out all of those relievers, because of
underperformance from the starters. I think my basic point is that
Peterson or Warthen, I don't really a see an overall difference in the
pitching staff. The Mets still give up about 4 earned runs per 9
innings.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Aug 12, 5:25 am, O'Bob <O'...@nospam.com> wrote:
> You hear a lot about Warthen when the Mets' starters do well. I have
> to wonder about his role with the bullpen. Seems he should start
> concentrating on that soon. <g> Everyone knows that the bullpen is
> overused and tired, but there is no alternative.

They are not overused.
Half the pitching staff is asked to get 1/3 of the outs!
Only overworked because they all walk too many batters.
Maybe readiness is the problem.
Using all you relievers all the time is not working and adding warmup
time for all.
The LRLR switching is abused.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:43:56 -0700 (PDT), jonathan
<jmerin77.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well you can argue that Randolph/Peterson went to the bullpen more
>often early, thereby burning out all of those relievers, because of
>underperformance from the starters. I think my basic point is that
>Peterson or Warthen, I don't really a see an overall difference in the
>pitching staff. The Mets still give up about 4 earned runs per 9
>innings.

Given that the starting pitcher is the 'front line,' I'd still say
it's better that they perform. Relief pitchers are bad enough at this
point that they could almost swap in minor league pitchers at random
to see who can do it. Of course that's a different kind of risk (to an
immature players' confidence), but if it pays off, it pays off all
around.
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:17:05 -0400, Jim wrote:

>
> He also doesn't proclaim to fix someone in ten minutes.

Did he slap her hard? I bet you can slap her harder.

Ruben

--
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 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:43:56 -0700, jonathan wrote:

>
> Well you can argue that Randolph/Peterson went to the bullpen more often
> early, thereby burning out all of those relievers, because of
> underperformance from the starters. I think my basic point is that
> Peterson or Warthen, I don't really a see an overall difference in the
> pitching staff. The Mets still give up about 4 earned runs per 9 innings.

I think it is better to argue that some of the success of the starters
comes from the change up of Peterson to Warthen. In fact, it has been
noted and documented that some of the pitching staffs style radically
changed after the coaching changed and teams were caught flatfooted. The
new scouting might be out, reflecting in the tougher road the starters
have had of late.

OTOH, I fully expected the starters to have an unhittable stretch and they
did. Furthermore, that stretch started before the firing, under Peterson
and Randolf.

I think we can fully expect another hot stretch from the starters, and if
it happpens in September, the Mets can ironically be carried into the
playoffs with a very hot pitching staff.

Ruben

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium
 >> Stay informed about: Mets' pitching coach