More Lincecum

On May 1, 8:54 am, Jonathan Bernstein <j....TakeThisOut@socrates.berkeley.edu>
wrote:
> Grizzlie Antagonist <lloydsofhanf....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
> > If Lincecum were brought up now, the fans and the media would be
> > clamoring for him to match his AAA performance. He would be under a
> > lot of pressure, and the likelihood is that he would fold under it.
> > Bringing him up right NOW is a recipe for messing with his head and
> > turning him into Shawn Estes.
>
> How is this going to be any different any other time?


At a later time, he will have logged more innings in AAA.



> It's an argument for bringing him up in long relief, not an argument for
> leaving him in Fresno.
>
> JHB


I suppose that bringing him up in long relief would fill a more
pressing need (if he pitched effectively) and would put less pressure
upon him, but I still don't like the idea of changing his role, just
to bring him here. The Giants were patient enough with Matt Cain to
refrain from bringing him up until September 2005.
 >> Stay informed about: More Lincecum 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:38:28 -1000, JW <JohnW.DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote:

>From Hank's Monday article for the GIANTS NOTEBOOK
>
>More Lincecum: Director of player personnel Bobby Evans said the
>Giants have no plans to convert super-prospect Tim Lincecum into a
>reliever and bring him to San Francisco, no matter how many strikeouts
>he racks up at Triple-A Fresno (he had 14 in six innings Sunday).
>
>"It's a strain on a kid to bring him up in a different role," Evans
>said. "He's clearly in a role he's comfortable with. There's no reason
>to make an adjustment."
>
>Some fans are clamoring for the Giants to trade a starter for a bat
>and promote Lincecum to the rotation, but even teams desperate for
>pitching are not willing to deal middle-of-the-order hitters this
>early in the season.

Hmmm, someone else suggested this recently.

>[This best performing unit could be a lot better with the addition of
>Lincecum and his fastball, and the removal of Morris and his missing
>fastball]

Unfortunately, by the time we hit July (when the GM's get off their
asses), the law of averages will probably have hit Morris rather hard and
then he won't be tradeable anymore.
--
Greg Lentz
 >> Stay informed about: More Lincecum 

Greg Lentz wrote:

> Unfortunately, by the time we hit July (when the GM's get off their
> asses), the law of averages will probably have hit Morris rather hard and
> then he won't be tradeable anymore.

Given his contract, I doubt Morris is tradeable even if he maintains his
current level for another month or two. He's not pitching *that* great,
and any scout will notice that a guy with an 87-mph fastball and control
problems is on the downside of his career.

I'm with Jonathan on this one: Lowry is the one to trade. I doubt his
trade value will ever be higher than it is right now. But I think it is
unlikely that Sabean will trade Lowry, even if conditions are favorable
for doing so in July. I get the impression that Sabean's plan is to
build around a nucleus of young starting pitchers and, rightly or
wrongly, Lowry is firmly in that group in Sabean's mind. That plan, of
course, will fail if it's 2009 and the Giants don't have a single
position player who can hit.

-Brent
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On Tue, 01 May 2007 13:07:23 -0700, Brent Peterson
<brentpeterson01.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Greg Lentz wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, by the time we hit July (when the GM's get off their
>> asses), the law of averages will probably have hit Morris rather hard and
>> then he won't be tradeable anymore.
>
>Given his contract, I doubt Morris is tradeable even if he maintains his
>current level for another month or two. He's not pitching *that* great,
>and any scout will notice that a guy with an 87-mph fastball and control
>problems is on the downside of his career.
>
>I'm with Jonathan on this one: Lowry is the one to trade. I doubt his
>trade value will ever be higher than it is right now. But I think it is
>unlikely that Sabean will trade Lowry, even if conditions are favorable
>for doing so in July. I get the impression that Sabean's plan is to
>build around a nucleus of young starting pitchers and, rightly or
>wrongly, Lowry is firmly in that group in Sabean's mind. That plan, of
>course, will fail if it's 2009 and the Giants don't have a single
>position player who can hit.

Well, secretly my hope is that no one gets traded and someone else has
Sabean's job next year when it comes time to build an offense.
--
Greg Lentz
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>From mlb.com: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070501&content_id=1940167&vk...news_ml

"No, this is clearly a good Major League pitcher who's just spinning
his wheels in Triple-A until his team can bring him up. The impact
he's going to have will be mind-blowing and immediate."
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"Grizzlie Antagonist" <lloydsofhanford.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> I suppose that bringing him up in long relief would fill a more
> pressing need (if he pitched effectively) and would put less pressure
> upon him, but I still don't like the idea of changing his role, just
> to bring him here. The Giants were patient enough with Matt Cain to
> refrain from bringing him up until September 2005.

That's because Cain was nowhere even remotely close to Lincecum in the
minors. Most people thought he wasn't quite ready or at most borderline
ready to come up. He was called up only because it was a September
callup.
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Grizzlie Antagonist <lloydsofhanford.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in

> If Lincecum were brought up now, the fans and the media would be
> clamoring for him to match his AAA performance. He would be under a
> lot of pressure, and the likelihood is that he would fold under it.
> Bringing him up right NOW is a recipe for messing with his head and
> turning him into Shawn Estes.

How is this going to be any different any other time?

It's an argument for bringing him up in long relief, not an argument for
leaving him in Fresno.

JHB
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On 1 May 2007 09:20:07 -0700, Grizzlie Antagonist
<lloydsofhanford DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>The Giants were patient enough with Matt Cain to
>refrain from bringing him up until September 2005.

And did he ever announce himself in his second start!
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"James Farrar" <james.s.farrar.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6lse33dfvto6qdq9u8i0udia8lgb9thq84@4ax.com...
> On 1 May 2007 09:20:07 -0700, Grizzlie Antagonist
> <lloydsofhanford.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>The Giants were patient enough with Matt Cain to
>>refrain from bringing him up until September 2005.
>
> And did he ever announce himself in his second start!


I'm Tim Lincecum, I am dominating triple A hitters, like a College Pitcher
throwing to little leaguers. When the hell are the giants going to call me
up, if they do not do so soon, I will be one frustrated skinny kid with a 99
MPH fastball.
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Grizzlie Antagonist <lloydsofhanford DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
> On May 1, 8:54 am, Jonathan Bernstein <j... DeleteThis @socrates.berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
>> Grizzlie Antagonist <lloydsofhanf... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
>>
>> > If Lincecum were brought up now, the fans and the media would be
>> > clamoring for him to match his AAA performance. He would be under
>> > a lot of pressure, and the likelihood is that he would fold under
>> > it. Bringing him up right NOW is a recipe for messing with his head
>> > and turning him into Shawn Estes.
>>
>> How is this going to be any different any other time?
>
>
> At a later time, he will have logged more innings in AAA.

But that's not going to change the ammount of pressure (if anything,
it'll make it worse), and I really don't see how a couple more months of
dominating AAA hitters will better prepare him for the presure part of
it.

>> It's an argument for bringing him up in long relief, not an argument
>> for leaving him in Fresno.
>
> I suppose that bringing him up in long relief would fill a more
> pressing need (if he pitched effectively) and would put less pressure
> upon him, but I still don't like the idea of changing his role, just
> to bring him here. The Giants were patient enough with Matt Cain to
> refrain from bringing him up until September 2005.

But Matt Cain's a totally different story. First, he was a lot younger.
Second, he was doing fine in AAA, not dominating -- his ERA for the
season was 4.39. Lincecum's ERA isn't 4.39, or 3.39, or 2.39, or
1.39...it's in the range of 0.39. (And ERA is a good proxy for overall
stats in this case -- Cain was very impressive by holding his own at AAA
at his very young age, but Lincecum just doesn't belong in that league).

JHB
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Jonathan Bernstein <jhb.TakeThisOut@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9923899614C99jhbsocratesberkeleye@207.115.33.102:

[Yes, I'm acting a bit obsessive about the topic, but here goes
again...]

Here's today's Lincecum tidbit, from BP's Joe Sheehan:

"It also sometimes happens that a great prospect just can’t find his way
to the majors. Tim Lincecum is the best example at the moment. Despite
putting up video-game stats in the Pacific Coast League—one run and 12
hits allowed in 31 innings—he remains a Fresno Grizzly, the “victim” of
the Giants’ hot streak. The major league team doesn’t perceive a need
for a starting pitcher because of Russ Ortiz’s apparent resurgence, and
they don’t seem ready to give Lincecum a role in their bullpen. This
will likely resolve itself soon, because the Giants’ recent success in
preventing runs is more about unsustainably low hit and home-run rates
rather than their having a very good pitching staff. With a K/BB of
133/96 in 222 innings, the Giants need Lincecum"



JHB
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> [Yes, I'm acting a bit obsessive

It's the Snoozenet. Enjoy.

> will likely resolve itself soon, because the GiantsÂ’ recent success in
> preventing runs is more about unsustainably low hit and home-run rates

Sounds right to me. My hope has been that the run of luck continues long
enough to unload Morris on the Yankees for a prospect and some old rags.

> the Giants need Lincecum

I think the nine teams that picked ahead of the Giants need him, too.
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michael bakunin wrote:

>>[Yes, I'm acting a bit obsessive
>
>
> It's the Snoozenet. Enjoy.
>
>
>>will likely resolve itself soon, because the GiantsÂ’

Anybody else seeing the word "Giant" followed by an upper-case "A" in a box?

That's a new one on me, though I do see "Unicode (UTF-" at the top of
this window (which you don't, 'cause by the time I send this, the window
will no longer exist).

Gregg
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