Leiter is looking to be a Yankee

"Seth Jackson" <a DeleteThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
news:5n7jd1tcc55e0lv74gmj2pisj2lpq911un@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:45:34 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >"Seth Jackson" <a DeleteThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:vlvid1h5b0o4lsjbps9m7tcl8c3mv2uvmj@4ax.com...
> >> On 16 Jul 2005 11:36:54 -0700, "mrbrklyn" <spam-killer DeleteThis @nylxs.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Why would the yankees do that?
> >>
> >> Uh, because they have only 2 starters?
> >>
> >> >Mind boggling. It's like an endless appitite with them.
> >>
> >> What brilliant suggestions would you propose?
> >
> > The Yankees' problem is that they have a pitching staff full of old
> >and/or injury-prone pitchers, and can't get anybody but Johnson and
Mussina
> >to pitch a decent amount of innings, which leaves them with an overworked
> >bullpen. Yet, they try to resolve this problem by acquiring the
39-year-old
> >(40 in October) Al Leiter, who is averaging less than 5 innings per start
> >(yes, less than 5--as in, he would not qualify for a win, even if he was
> >pitching well), to go along with his exponentially rising ERA and walk
rate.
> >There's a reason why two teams have unceremoniously cut ties with Leiter
> >since December.
>
> You still managed to avoid the question. What better options are
> available to the Yankees right now?

I didn't avoid anything. Leiter is such a bad option, that the other
options are irrelevant. If he had been on the Yankees already, then it
would be relevant, because he was already on their roster, and wouldn't cost
them anything more. But, they actually went and made an effort to obtain
him, costing them a player (the infamous player to be named later) and
presumably cash (I know the Marlins sent cash with Leiter, and I don't know
how much, but I'm assuming the Yankees have to pay SOME of hs salary, which
just means more payroll, no matter how little). At this point, pretty much
anybody they have is a better option than Leiter, because they can't pitch
any worse than him, and they won't cost any players or as much money.

But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he was
definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
Leiter. And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter. And the Reds are, apparently,
willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
(even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself). The Yanks might need to
take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway. And, if the
rumors are true, Tom Glavine could be had for the right price--not what he
used to be, but better than Leiter. Hell, even Joe Kennedy--just traded by
the Rockies for Eric Byrnes--is probably a better option than Leiter (not
quite sure about that, since his ERA away from Coors thiis year is over
7.00--but, he's been better than that in the past, so has some potential
upside, whle Leiter's upside is based solely on luck). And, on the subject
of recently traded pitchers, Zach Day, recently traded by the Nationals, to
the Rockies, in the Preston Wilson trade, would probably also be a better
option--he's been hurt this season, but he's apparently back now, and his
previous couple of seasons seem to indicate that he'd pitch better than
Leiter this year.

There's just a few--and I am not even privy to the discussions between
MLB GMs, so I don't know who else is available.


--
Tracey



>
> > I always liked Leiter, and was sorry to see him leave the Mets in the
> >manner it happened, but it was obvious that it was not a loss,
talent-wise.
> >If Leiter helps the Yankees, it will be sheer luck, nothing else.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

"Tracey" <tmapou.DeleteThis@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3BkCe.983$Ow4.581907@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> "Seth Jackson" <a.DeleteThis@mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5n7jd1tcc55e0lv74gmj2pisj2lpq911un@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:45:34 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou.DeleteThis@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >"Seth Jackson" <a.DeleteThis@mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> > >news:vlvid1h5b0o4lsjbps9m7tcl8c3mv2uvmj@4ax.com...
> > >> On 16 Jul 2005 11:36:54 -0700, "mrbrklyn" <spam-killer.DeleteThis@nylxs.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Why would the yankees do that?
> > >>
> > >> Uh, because they have only 2 starters?
> > >>
> > >> >Mind boggling. It's like an endless appitite with them.
> > >>
> > >> What brilliant suggestions would you propose?
> > >
> > > The Yankees' problem is that they have a pitching staff full of old
> > >and/or injury-prone pitchers, and can't get anybody but Johnson and
> Mussina
> > >to pitch a decent amount of innings, which leaves them with an
overworked
> > >bullpen. Yet, they try to resolve this problem by acquiring the
> 39-year-old
> > >(40 in October) Al Leiter, who is averaging less than 5 innings per
start
> > >(yes, less than 5--as in, he would not qualify for a win, even if he
was
> > >pitching well), to go along with his exponentially rising ERA and walk
> rate.
> > >There's a reason why two teams have unceremoniously cut ties with
Leiter
> > >since December.
> >
> > You still managed to avoid the question. What better options are
> > available to the Yankees right now?
>
> I didn't avoid anything. Leiter is such a bad option, that the other
> options are irrelevant. If he had been on the Yankees already, then it
> would be relevant, because he was already on their roster, and wouldn't
cost
> them anything more. But, they actually went and made an effort to obtain
> him, costing them a player (the infamous player to be named later) and
> presumably cash (I know the Marlins sent cash with Leiter, and I don't
know
> how much, but I'm assuming the Yankees have to pay SOME of hs salary,
which
> just means more payroll, no matter how little). At this point, pretty
much
> anybody they have is a better option than Leiter, because they can't pitch
> any worse than him, and they won't cost any players or as much money.
>
It's costing them only $400k.

> But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
> acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he was
> definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
> Leiter.
It would have cost them a lot more. Colorado's offer was outrageous.

And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
> Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter. And the Reds are, apparently,
> willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
> (even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).

Ugh. Every pitch he throws goes out of the park the other way.

> The Yanks might need to
> take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
> Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway.

Can the Joker play CF? What the hell would the Yanks do with him? If the
Yanks send Melky down, they'll just bring up Thompson anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:51:27 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou.DeleteThis@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
>acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he was
>definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
>Leiter.

Not much better, and probably at significantly greater cost.

> And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
>Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter.

Another big injury risk and significantly greater cost.

>And the Reds are, apparently,
>willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
>(even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).

Eric Milton? Surely you jest. I wonder how many HRs Manny and Ortiz
would hit between them off this guy. Trot and Varitek, join the party
while we're at it!

>The Yanks might need to
>take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
>Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway. And, if the
>rumors are true, Tom Glavine could be had for the right price--not what he
>used to be, but better than Leiter.

Yep, that 1.72 WHIP is just what the Dr. ordered. And how much does
Glavine have left on his contract? You think we could get him as
cheap as we got Leiter?

> Hell, even Joe Kennedy--just traded by
>the Rockies for Eric Byrnes--is probably a better option than Leiter (not
>quite sure about that, since his ERA away from Coors thiis year is over
>7.00--but, he's been better than that in the past, so has some potential
>upside, whle Leiter's upside is based solely on luck). And, on the subject
>of recently traded pitchers, Zach Day, recently traded by the Nationals, to
>the Rockies, in the Preston Wilson trade, would probably also be a better
>option--he's been hurt this season, but he's apparently back now, and his
>previous couple of seasons seem to indicate that he'd pitch better than
>Leiter this year.

All of those recently traded guys you mentioned were, well, recently
traded, which means they're highly unlikely to be available at this
point in time. And all of them would have cost more than Leiter, who
is intended to be nothing more than a short-term Band-Aid. It would
be absurd to give up something of value when all we're looking for is
someone to fill that role.
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

"Seth Jackson" <a RemoveThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
news:cgujd1tull1etqn9fgb706obgsms4kq1tr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:51:27 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou RemoveThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
> >acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he
was
> >definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
> >Leiter.
>
> Not much better, and probably at significantly greater cost.
>

Chacon's ERA is more than 2 runs lower than Leiter's, and he pitches at
Coors Field. That's signficantly better. And, like everyone else on the
list, he won't implode within 5 innings, so he doesn't hurt the bullppen.

> > And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
> >Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter.
>
> Another big injury risk and significantly greater cost.
>

Yeah--those 39-year-old pitchers with histories of knee problems are
much safer bets to stay off the DL. Burnett had his Tommy John surgery, has
made 38 starts since he returned from it in June 2004 and, of course, you
forgot the important part--he's a very good pitcher, with the potental to be
great for years to come. THAT is the type of pitcher you give up players
and/or cash for--not washed up 39-year-old gimps (apologies to Al Leiter).

> >And the Reds are, apparently,
> >willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
> >(even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).
>
> Eric Milton? Surely you jest. I wonder how many HRs Manny and Ortiz
> would hit between them off this guy. Trot and Varitek, join the party
> while we're at it!
>

Surely you've heard of park factors. Milton is currently pitching in
Great American Ballpark--the #1 homer stadium in the NL this season. Last
year, he pitched in similarly homer-happy Citizens Bank Park. Befrore that,
he was pitching in the Metrodome which, according to ESPN.com, was one of
the top 3 hitters parks while he was there (not sure if new stadiums have
changed that, but it doesn't matter now, since he's no there). Yankee
Stadium, on the other hand, is a good park for lefty flyball pitchers.

Now, granted, Milton is far from great, but you didn't ask me to name
great pitchers who were available. You asked me for better options than
Leiter.

> >The Yanks might need to
> >take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
> >Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway. And, if the
> >rumors are true, Tom Glavine could be had for the right price--not what
he
> >used to be, but better than Leiter.
>
> Yep, that 1.72 WHIP is just what the Dr. ordered. And how much does
> Glavine have left on his contract? You think we could get him as
> cheap as we got Leiter?
>

Believe me, as a Mets fan, I am not exactly comfortable when Glavine
takes the mound. But he's a much better option than Leiter--and, unlike
Leiter, his performance has improved as the season goes on. And, once
again, you didn't ask me for Cy Young candidates--you asked me for better
options than Leiter.

But, hell, if you're so worried about payroll, I'd pitch for even
cheaper than Leiter. And, although I'm right-handed, I'll pitch lefty if
they want (not sure I could reach the plate with my left hand, but all they
want is cheap, right?).

If they were going for cheap, they'd have gone with a minor league
fill-in. They were going for cheap AND good (or great, and as cheap as
possible), and all they got was cheap. And they didn't even have the sense
to go with someone who could pitch a decent amount of innings. *That's* the
most egregious--and, well, dumb--part of this deal. Leiter averages less
than 5 innings per game. And he does badly in those less than 5 iinniings.

But, hey. He's cheap--and he's done well through 2 2/3 innings, so
maybe he'll win the Cy Young now! =D

> > Hell, even Joe Kennedy--just traded by
> >the Rockies for Eric Byrnes--is probably a better option than Leiter (not
> >quite sure about that, since his ERA away from Coors thiis year is over
> >7.00--but, he's been better than that in the past, so has some potential
> >upside, whle Leiter's upside is based solely on luck). And, on the
subject
> >of recently traded pitchers, Zach Day, recently traded by the Nationals,
to
> >the Rockies, in the Preston Wilson trade, would probably also be a better
> >option--he's been hurt this season, but he's apparently back now, and his
> >previous couple of seasons seem to indicate that he'd pitch better than
> >Leiter this year.
>
> All of those recently traded guys you mentioned were, well, recently
> traded, which means they're highly unlikely to be available at this
> point in time. And all of them would have cost more than Leiter, who
> is intended to be nothing more than a short-term Band-Aid. It would
> be absurd to give up something of value when all we're looking for is
> someone to fill that role.

I didn't mean that they should've gotten those pitchers now, after they
were traded once, already. I meant that they could have traded for them
before they were trade to the A's (Kennedy) and the Rockies (Day).

Also, why get nothing more than a warm body, who cannot be expected to
pitch effectively--or more than 4 innings--to fill in a rotation spot as a
"band-aid," when they can get someone who could pitch *well*, and perhaps
for a period beyond this season?

And they *do* need Leiter for more than a band-aid. Right now, they
have Johnson and Mussina as their only certainties (and "certainty" isn't
exactly appropriate for Johnson, but he's only missed one start this year,
as far as I recall, so we'll go with that). Supposedly, they're getting
Kevin Brown back tomorrow, but who knows how long he'll last (in the game,
and for the season), as he keeps missing starts/going on the DL. Wang is
likely out for the year, and who knows if Wright can make it back. Pavano
is, supposedly, at least a couple of weeks away. So, there are 2 spots open
for at least a couple of more weeks, and 1 spot open, probably for the rest
of the year. And to wait too close to the deadline would be foolish, as
enough losses because you put garbage on the mound in July can leave you
short in October. I'm sure it would be especially painful if the Yankees
finish 1 or 2 games out of the playoffs, and you reflect on the starting
pitchers they belched forth, day after day, in July, as they sat back,
complacent, assuming that things will work out, because they are the
Yankees, and they think they are entitled to a playoff spot.

--
Tracey
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

"Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown" <hotsoup DeleteThis @mofo.com> wrote in message
news:bgnCe.337$Vn2.326@fe11.lga...
>
> "Tracey" <tmapou DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3BkCe.983$Ow4.581907@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > "Seth Jackson" <a DeleteThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:5n7jd1tcc55e0lv74gmj2pisj2lpq911un@4ax.com...
> > > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:45:34 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Seth Jackson" <a DeleteThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> > > >news:vlvid1h5b0o4lsjbps9m7tcl8c3mv2uvmj@4ax.com...
> > > >> On 16 Jul 2005 11:36:54 -0700, "mrbrklyn" <spam-killer DeleteThis @nylxs.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >Why would the yankees do that?
> > > >>
> > > >> Uh, because they have only 2 starters?
> > > >>
> > > >> >Mind boggling. It's like an endless appitite with them.
> > > >>
> > > >> What brilliant suggestions would you propose?
> > > >
> > > > The Yankees' problem is that they have a pitching staff full of
old
> > > >and/or injury-prone pitchers, and can't get anybody but Johnson and
> > Mussina
> > > >to pitch a decent amount of innings, which leaves them with an
> overworked
> > > >bullpen. Yet, they try to resolve this problem by acquiring the
> > 39-year-old
> > > >(40 in October) Al Leiter, who is averaging less than 5 innings per
> start
> > > >(yes, less than 5--as in, he would not qualify for a win, even if he
> was
> > > >pitching well), to go along with his exponentially rising ERA and
walk
> > rate.
> > > >There's a reason why two teams have unceremoniously cut ties with
> Leiter
> > > >since December.
> > >
> > > You still managed to avoid the question. What better options are
> > > available to the Yankees right now?
> >
> > I didn't avoid anything. Leiter is such a bad option, that the
other
> > options are irrelevant. If he had been on the Yankees already, then it
> > would be relevant, because he was already on their roster, and wouldn't
> cost
> > them anything more. But, they actually went and made an effort to
obtain
> > him, costing them a player (the infamous player to be named later) and
> > presumably cash (I know the Marlins sent cash with Leiter, and I don't
> know
> > how much, but I'm assuming the Yankees have to pay SOME of hs salary,
> which
> > just means more payroll, no matter how little). At this point, pretty
> much
> > anybody they have is a better option than Leiter, because they can't
pitch
> > any worse than him, and they won't cost any players or as much money.
> >
> It's costing them only $400k.
>

Thanks. I only found that our, for certain, this morning.

Keep in mind, though, it *is* costing them some money that they could
just give to someone they already have (in the majors or minors), and he
takes up a roster spot.

> > But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
> > acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he
was
> > definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
> > Leiter.
> It would have cost them a lot more. Colorado's offer was outrageous.
>
> And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
> > Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter. And the Reds are, apparently,
> > willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
> > (even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).
>
> Ugh. Every pitch he throws goes out of the park the other way.
>

Do you mean "the other way" as in, to the opposite field (or, rightfield
for a righty, leftfield for a lefty), or "the other way" as n, he throws the
ball towards the batter, and the batter hits it, and makes it go in the
opposite directon, and out of the park? I think you mean the latter, as I
never got the impression that Milton "discriminates" about what field the
homers go to.

That being said, while you are certainly correct (as was Seth), about
Milton's tendency to give up homers, keep in mind the ballparks he has
pitched in. He is currently in Great American Ballpark (or, as it's more
popularly known, "Great American Smallpark") which, according to Baseball
Tonight, is the #1 homer park in the NL, so far this season. And, last
year, he pitched in Citizens Bank Park, which is also near the top of the
homer-happy stadiums. And, of course, prior to that, he pitched in the
Metrodome, which, at the very least, was near the top of the list for
hitters' parks in the AL (top 3), while he was there (although, I am not
sure if it was for homers, specifically). Milton was an idiot for signing
with the Phillies and, for that matter, with the Reds. I think it seems
pretty clear that he just went to the team that offered him the most money
(whether per year, or over a number of years), despite the fact that the
teams he went to had home parks which were *awful* for flyball pitchers.
But, Yankees Stadium is a pretty nice option for a lefthanded flyball
pitcher.


> > The Yanks might need to
> > take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
> > Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway.
>
> Can the Joker play CF? What the hell would the Yanks do with him? If the
> Yanks send Melky down, they'll just bring up Thompson anyway.
>

What the hell will the Yankees do with half the players on their bench?
They have a bench full of DHs and, I hate to tell you, only 1 DH spot in the
lineup. At least Randa can play the field. I'm assuming you wouldn't be
too disraught if he replaced Russ Johnson on the depth chart.



--
Tracey
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

"Tracey" <tmapou RemoveThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XLBCe.1454$Na6.720326@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> "Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown" <hotsoup RemoveThis @mofo.com> wrote in message
> news:bgnCe.337$Vn2.326@fe11.lga...
> >
> > "Tracey" <tmapou RemoveThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:3BkCe.983$Ow4.581907@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > > "Seth Jackson" <a RemoveThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> > > news:5n7jd1tcc55e0lv74gmj2pisj2lpq911un@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:45:34 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou RemoveThis @nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >"Seth Jackson" <a RemoveThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
> > > > >news:vlvid1h5b0o4lsjbps9m7tcl8c3mv2uvmj@4ax.com...
> > > > >> On 16 Jul 2005 11:36:54 -0700, "mrbrklyn" <spam-killer RemoveThis @nylxs.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >Why would the yankees do that?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Uh, because they have only 2 starters?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >Mind boggling. It's like an endless appitite with them.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What brilliant suggestions would you propose?
> > > > >
> > > > > The Yankees' problem is that they have a pitching staff full of
> old
> > > > >and/or injury-prone pitchers, and can't get anybody but Johnson and
> > > Mussina
> > > > >to pitch a decent amount of innings, which leaves them with an
> > overworked
> > > > >bullpen. Yet, they try to resolve this problem by acquiring the
> > > 39-year-old
> > > > >(40 in October) Al Leiter, who is averaging less than 5 innings per
> > start
> > > > >(yes, less than 5--as in, he would not qualify for a win, even if
he
> > was
> > > > >pitching well), to go along with his exponentially rising ERA and
> walk
> > > rate.
> > > > >There's a reason why two teams have unceremoniously cut ties with
> > Leiter
> > > > >since December.
> > > >
> > > > You still managed to avoid the question. What better options are
> > > > available to the Yankees right now?
> > >
> > > I didn't avoid anything. Leiter is such a bad option, that the
> other
> > > options are irrelevant. If he had been on the Yankees already, then
it
> > > would be relevant, because he was already on their roster, and
wouldn't
> > cost
> > > them anything more. But, they actually went and made an effort to
> obtain
> > > him, costing them a player (the infamous player to be named later) and
> > > presumably cash (I know the Marlins sent cash with Leiter, and I don't
> > know
> > > how much, but I'm assuming the Yankees have to pay SOME of hs salary,
> > which
> > > just means more payroll, no matter how little). At this point, pretty
> > much
> > > anybody they have is a better option than Leiter, because they can't
> pitch
> > > any worse than him, and they won't cost any players or as much money.
> > >
> > It's costing them only $400k.
> >
>
> Thanks. I only found that our, for certain, this morning.
>
> Keep in mind, though, it *is* costing them some money that they could
> just give to someone they already have (in the majors or minors), and he
> takes up a roster spot.

They don't have anybody in the minors ready to pitch that I know of.

> > > But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
> > > acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he
> was
> > > definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better
than
> > > Leiter.
> > It would have cost them a lot more. Colorado's offer was outrageous.
> >
> > And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
> > > Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter. And the Reds are,
apparently,
> > > willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than
Leiter
> > > (even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).
> >
> > Ugh. Every pitch he throws goes out of the park the other way.
> >
>
> Do you mean "the other way" as in, to the opposite field (or,
rightfield
> for a righty, leftfield for a lefty), or "the other way" as n, he throws
the
> ball towards the batter, and the batter hits it, and makes it go in the
> opposite directon, and out of the park? I think you mean the latter, as I
> never got the impression that Milton "discriminates" about what field the
> homers go to.
>
Yep, that's what I meant.

> That being said, while you are certainly correct (as was Seth), about
> Milton's tendency to give up homers, keep in mind the ballparks he has
> pitched in. He is currently in Great American Ballpark (or, as it's more
> popularly known, "Great American Smallpark") which, according to Baseball
> Tonight, is the #1 homer park in the NL, so far this season. And, last
> year, he pitched in Citizens Bank Park, which is also near the top of the
> homer-happy stadiums. And, of course, prior to that, he pitched in the
> Metrodome, which, at the very least, was near the top of the list for
> hitters' parks in the AL (top 3), while he was there (although, I am not
> sure if it was for homers, specifically). Milton was an idiot for signing
> with the Phillies and, for that matter, with the Reds. I think it seems
> pretty clear that he just went to the team that offered him the most money
> (whether per year, or over a number of years), despite the fact that the
> teams he went to had home parks which were *awful* for flyball pitchers.
> But, Yankees Stadium is a pretty nice option for a lefthanded flyball
> pitcher.

This year, he has given up 14 homers in 48.2 innings with an 8.69 ERA on the
road, as opposed to 15 homers in 63.0 IP and a 5.57 ERA at home. Last year,
it was 23 homers in 96.2 IP and a 5.12 ERA on the road, 20 homers in 104.1
IP and a 4.40 ERA at home. Basically, it's not his parks that are hurting
him.

>
> > > The Yanks might need to
> > > take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
> > > Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway.
> >
> > Can the Joker play CF? What the hell would the Yanks do with him? If the
> > Yanks send Melky down, they'll just bring up Thompson anyway.
> >
>
> What the hell will the Yankees do with half the players on their
bench?
> They have a bench full of DHs and, I hate to tell you, only 1 DH spot in
the
> lineup. At least Randa can play the field. I'm assuming you wouldn't be
> too disraught if he replaced Russ Johnson on the depth chart.
>
He makes more money than Russ Johnson, and is probably not as versatile. He
probably would not want to be a bench player either.
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

js242.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:

> That's great! I can't wait to see him get smacked around in one of his
> classic 5 inning, 100 pitch performances.
>
> He is one of the most overated players to ever play the game.


Nice call dipshit.

JB
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee 

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 23:07:30 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>"Seth Jackson" <a DeleteThis @mindspring.invalid> wrote in message
>news:cgujd1tull1etqn9fgb706obgsms4kq1tr@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:51:27 GMT, "Tracey" <tmapou DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > But, since you asked, the Yankees were appparently on the verge of
>> >acquiring Shawn Chacon from the Rockies, when Leiter was DFA'd, and he
>was
>> >definiitely a better option--maybe not so good, himself, but better than
>> >Leiter.
>>
>> Not much better, and probably at significantly greater cost.
>>
>
> Chacon's ERA is more than 2 runs lower than Leiter's, and he pitches at
>Coors Field. That's signficantly better. And, like everyone else on the
>list, he won't implode within 5 innings, so he doesn't hurt the bullppen.

The point is that we got Leiter for virtually nothing. Not the case
if we were to go after Chacon.

>> > And, of course, Burnett is also being shopped around by the
>> >Marlins, who is MUCH better than Leiter.
>>
>> Another big injury risk and significantly greater cost.
>>
>
> Yeah--those 39-year-old pitchers with histories of knee problems are
>much safer bets to stay off the DL. Burnett had his Tommy John surgery, has
>made 38 starts since he returned from it in June 2004 and, of course, you
>forgot the important part--he's a very good pitcher, with the potental to be
>great for years to come. THAT is the type of pitcher you give up players
>and/or cash for--not washed up 39-year-old gimps (apologies to Al Leiter).

Again, cost is a major factor.

>> >And the Reds are, apparently,
>> >willing to part with Eric Milton--also a MUCH better option than Leiter
>> >(even if he is far from Sandy Koufax, himself).
>>
>> Eric Milton? Surely you jest. I wonder how many HRs Manny and Ortiz
>> would hit between them off this guy. Trot and Varitek, join the party
>> while we're at it!
>>
>
> Surely you've heard of park factors. Milton is currently pitching in
>Great American Ballpark--the #1 homer stadium in the NL this season. Last
>year, he pitched in similarly homer-happy Citizens Bank Park. Befrore that,
>he was pitching in the Metrodome which, according to ESPN.com, was one of
>the top 3 hitters parks while he was there (not sure if new stadiums have
>changed that, but it doesn't matter now, since he's no there). Yankee
>Stadium, on the other hand, is a good park for lefty flyball pitchers.

There are other pitchers pitching in those parks, and none of them
give up nearly the number of HRs as Milton. He's a HR machine. How
do you suppose he'd fare in Fenway against our biggest rival?

> Now, granted, Milton is far from great, but you didn't ask me to name
>great pitchers who were available. You asked me for better options than
>Leiter.

The eliminates Milton.

>> >The Yanks might need to
>> >take Joe Randa as a throw-in to get Milton, but it looks like Melky
>> >Cabrera's spot on the bench might be available soon, anyway. And, if the
>> >rumors are true, Tom Glavine could be had for the right price--not what
>he
>> >used to be, but better than Leiter.
>>
>> Yep, that 1.72 WHIP is just what the Dr. ordered. And how much does
>> Glavine have left on his contract? You think we could get him as
>> cheap as we got Leiter?
>>
>
> Believe me, as a Mets fan, I am not exactly comfortable when Glavine
>takes the mound. But he's a much better option than Leiter--and, unlike
>Leiter, his performance has improved as the season goes on. And, once
>again, you didn't ask me for Cy Young candidates--you asked me for better
>options than Leiter.

Scratch Glavine. Too expensive, and we'd have to give up too much.
Leiter is a virtual no-risk option.

> But, hell, if you're so worried about payroll, I'd pitch for even
>cheaper than Leiter. And, although I'm right-handed, I'll pitch lefty if
>they want (not sure I could reach the plate with my left hand, but all they
>want is cheap, right?).
>
> If they were going for cheap, they'd have gone with a minor league
>fill-in.

For example?

> They were going for cheap AND good (or great, and as cheap as
>possible), and all they got was cheap. And they didn't even have the sense
>to go with someone who could pitch a decent amount of innings. *That's* the
>most egregious--and, well, dumb--part of this deal. Leiter averages less
>than 5 innings per game. And he does badly in those less than 5 iinniings.
>
> But, hey. He's cheap--and he's done well through 2 2/3 innings, so
>maybe he'll win the Cy Young now! =D

Make that 6 1/2 innings.

>> > Hell, even Joe Kennedy--just traded by
>> >the Rockies for Eric Byrnes--is probably a better option than Leiter (not
>> >quite sure about that, since his ERA away from Coors thiis year is over
>> >7.00--but, he's been better than that in the past, so has some potential
>> >upside, whle Leiter's upside is based solely on luck). And, on the
>subject
>> >of recently traded pitchers, Zach Day, recently traded by the Nationals,
>to
>> >the Rockies, in the Preston Wilson trade, would probably also be a better
>> >option--he's been hurt this season, but he's apparently back now, and his
>> >previous couple of seasons seem to indicate that he'd pitch better than
>> >Leiter this year.
>>
>> All of those recently traded guys you mentioned were, well, recently
>> traded, which means they're highly unlikely to be available at this
>> point in time. And all of them would have cost more than Leiter, who
>> is intended to be nothing more than a short-term Band-Aid. It would
>> be absurd to give up something of value when all we're looking for is
>> someone to fill that role.
>
> I didn't mean that they should've gotten those pitchers now, after they
>were traded once, already. I meant that they could have traded for them
>before they were trade to the A's (Kennedy) and the Rockies (Day).
>
> Also, why get nothing more than a warm body, who cannot be expected to
>pitch effectively--or more than 4 innings--to fill in a rotation spot as a
>"band-aid," when they can get someone who could pitch *well*, and perhaps
>for a period beyond this season?
>
> And they *do* need Leiter for more than a band-aid. Right now, they
>have Johnson and Mussina as their only certainties (and "certainty" isn't
>exactly appropriate for Johnson, but he's only missed one start this year,
>as far as I recall, so we'll go with that). Supposedly, they're getting
>Kevin Brown back tomorrow, but who knows how long he'll last (in the game,
>and for the season), as he keeps missing starts/going on the DL. Wang is
>likely out for the year, and who knows if Wright can make it back. Pavano
>is, supposedly, at least a couple of weeks away. So, there are 2 spots open
>for at least a couple of more weeks, and 1 spot open, probably for the rest
>of the year. And to wait too close to the deadline would be foolish, as
>enough losses because you put garbage on the mound in July can leave you
>short in October. I'm sure it would be especially painful if the Yankees
>finish 1 or 2 games out of the playoffs, and you reflect on the starting
>pitchers they belched forth, day after day, in July, as they sat back,
>complacent, assuming that things will work out, because they are the
>Yankees, and they think they are entitled to a playoff spot.

By a "Band-Aid", I meant a fix that's meant to stop the bleeding for
at most the remainder of this season. In case you've missed it, the
new program is to build from within, which means resisting the
temptation to trade away our best young talent for quick fixes like
Chacon.
 >> Stay informed about: Leiter is looking to be a Yankee