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Since: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:58 pm
Post subject: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>tor-bluejays (more info?)
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The Blue Jays completed last summer's Shannon Stewart trade on Wednesday by sending Dave Gassner to Minnesota. Gasser, a
25-year-old southpaw, was the final element in the deal. He went 10-4 with a 2.79 ERA for Double-A New Haven in 2003, and he
finished the season with one successful start for Triple-A Syracuse.
Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
If you look a back at the Jays' success in 1983,1985 and 1987 you find that it
was accomplished by "Stand Pat" Gillick almost entirely
through building a good farm system. But, alas,
Ricciardi is no Pat Gillick-- that is the early Pat Gillick. Gillick did some good trading and FA signings
in the early 1990s, but that was after a strong Blue Jays' team had been created from the farm system
and the obtaining of young prospects from other ML teams.
Gillick largely abandoned his earlier strategy of success when he went to Baltimore and then to Seattle. |
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External
Since: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bruce Roberts" <roberts.DeleteThis@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> The Blue Jays completed last summer's Shannon Stewart trade on Wednesday
by sending Dave Gassner to Minnesota. Gasser, a
> 25-year-old southpaw, was the final element in the deal. He went 10-4 with
a 2.79 ERA for Double-A New Haven in 2003, and he
> finished the season with one successful start for Triple-A Syracuse.
24-year-old pitchers still in AA don't generally turn out to be quality
major league starters. And the Twins apparantly think so highly of him that
he's expected to back to AA next year.
Chris Johnston |
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Since: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Broken Record = PLONK!
Mattias
In article <QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
Bruce Roberts <roberts.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote:
> The Blue Jays completed last summer's Shannon Stewart trade on
>Wednesday by sending Dave Gassner to Minnesota. Gasser, a
>25-year-old southpaw, was the final element in the deal. He went 10-4
>with a 2.79 ERA for Double-A New Haven in 2003, and he
>finished the season with one successful start for Triple-A Syracuse.
>
>Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
>another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
>by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
>the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
>
>If you look a back at the Jays' success in 1983,1985 and 1987 you find that it
>was accomplished by "Stand Pat" Gillick almost entirely
>through building a good farm system. But, alas,
>Ricciardi is no Pat Gillick-- that is the early Pat Gillick. Gillick did
>some good trading and FA signings
>in the early 1990s, but that was after a strong Blue Jays' team had been
>created from the farm system
>and the obtaining of young prospects from other ML teams.
>
>Gillick largely abandoned his earlier strategy of success when he went
>to Baltimore and then to Seattle.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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What I find interesting is that Bruce made virtually no comment on the
Speier acquisition (or, if you want to turn it around the other way, the
exodus of Mark Hendrickson). Most people, baseball writers,
professionals, and non-Toronto fans, would say that J.P. Ricciardi made
a steal of a move by getting a good bullpen arm to challenge Ligtenberg
and Lopez for the closer's role, in exchange for a lefty starter who
barely showed up in 2003.
--
Douglas
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored,
the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied chains us all
irrevocably."
-- Judge Aaron Satie >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 137
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Nov 15, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I think that you and Mattias are overreacting.
Though I know nothing about Dave Gassner, when I read the that
the trade was finalized I thought the same thing: Stewart and 2 prospects
for Lilly?! Huh, wonder how that works out?
I could rationalize the trade, if I really felt like it. I could examine
the
prospects and have an opinion (hell, a 25 yo lefty with a 2.79era in AA
.........what were Lilly's numbers at that age (2001)?
You gotta see through the rant to the relative question.
"Asianflow" <rmchan.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:CvpEb.745619$6C4.377488@pd7tw1no...
> (plonk)
>
> >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Nov 19, 2003
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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It's the author, not the message, that's the problem. He has zero
credibility.
Holden wrote:
>I think that you and Mattias are overreacting.
>Though I know nothing about Dave Gassner, when I read the that
>the trade was finalized I thought the same thing: Stewart and 2 prospects
>for Lilly?! Huh, wonder how that works out?
>
>I could rationalize the trade, if I really felt like it. I could examine
>the
>prospects and have an opinion (hell, a 25 yo lefty with a 2.79era in AA
>........what were Lilly's numbers at that age (2001)?
>
>You gotta see through the rant to the relative question.
>
>
>
>"Asianflow" <rmchan.TakeThisOut@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:CvpEb.745619$6C4.377488@pd7tw1no...
>
>
>>(plonk)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 18
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article
<QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
"Bruce Roberts" <roberts DeleteThis @rogers.com> wrote:
> Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
> another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
> by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
> the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
I haven't figured out whether you're a troll or just a moron. >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Schwing" <schwing.RemoveThis@schwing.com> wrote in message
news:schwing-194C0F.18170620122003@28-72.newscene.com...
> In article
> <QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> "Bruce Roberts" <roberts.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
> > another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
> > by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
> > the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
>
>
> I haven't figured out whether you're a troll or just a moron.
He's both! >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Easy. Moron.
"Schwing" <schwing RemoveThis @schwing.com> wrote in message
news:schwing-194C0F.18170620122003@28-72.newscene.com...
> In article
> <QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> "Bruce Roberts" <roberts RemoveThis @rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
> > another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
> > by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
> > the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
>
>
> I haven't figured out whether you're a troll or just a moron. >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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External
Since: Nov 19, 2003
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi Mistake [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I don't think that you can rule out troll quite that easily...
Neal Smith wrote:
>Easy. Moron.
>
>"Schwing" <schwing.DeleteThis@schwing.com> wrote in message
>news:schwing-194C0F.18170620122003@28-72.newscene.com...
>
>
>>In article
>><QFnEb.86967$ea%.56420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
>> "Bruce Roberts" <roberts.DeleteThis@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Stewart and Gassner for Kielty. Kielty and now Kielty and
>>>another draft pick for Lily. All this wheeling and dealing
>>>by Ricciardi is going nowhere. This will be very clear at
>>>the end of the 2004 season. This kind of trading is zero sum at best.
>>>
>>>
>>I haven't figured out whether you're a troll or just a moron.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Jays Lose Fine Pitching Prospect Through Another Ricciardi.. |
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