Welcome to BaseballBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Interferance call on Derosa?

 
   Baseball Forums (Home) -> Texas Rangers RSS
Next:  PIN night at Ameriquest?? lol  
Author Message
*mavs*

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 29



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:10 am
Post subject: Interferance call on Derosa?
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>texas-rangers (more info?)

Huh? The Rangers played misserable tonite, making silly errors and such, so
I am not going to blame the loss on that. They probablly wouldnt win this
game anyway.

Isnt Derosa allowed a swing through? How is it the catcher can get up step
into the batters box to make the throw to second and make contact with
Derosas batt (not even enough to make him wince) and get a interferance call
to end the game?

Also, I find it interesting that the A's have ended two games this year with
an interferance call with the same umpire crew.

 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
y_p_w

External


Since: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 18



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

*mavs* wrote:
> Huh? The Rangers played misserable tonite, making silly errors and such, so
> I am not going to blame the loss on that. They probablly wouldnt win this
> game anyway.
>
> Isnt Derosa allowed a swing through? How is it the catcher can get up step
> into the batters box to make the throw to second and make contact with
> Derosas batt (not even enough to make him wince) and get a interferance call
> to end the game?

DeRosa's entire body was right in front of the plate, so technically
he was out of the batters box. On the previous swing, he wandered
all the way across the plate and out of the left hander's batters box.

One rule (6.06c) doesn't penalize the batter if the backswing makes
contact with the catcher before the ball is cleanly caught, but Kendall
had already caught it, and was of course making a throw while
DeRosa was out of the batters box.

> Also, I find it interesting that the A's have ended two games this year with
> an interferance call with the same umpire crew.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp

7.09
It is interference by a batter or a runner when --

(e) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or
impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner
shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;

** ** **

If the same thing had happened on the previous pitch, Rule
6.06c would have applied:

<http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp>

6.06
A batter is out for illegal action when --

(c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping
out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders
the catcher's play at home base. EXCEPTION: Batter is not out if
any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if runner trying to
score is called out for batter's interference.

Rule 6.06(c) Comment: If the batter interferes with the catcher, the
plate umpire shall call "interference." The batter is out and the
ball dead. No player may advance on such interference (offensive
interference) and all runners must return to the last base that was,
in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the
interference.

If, however, the catcher makes a play and the runner attempting to
advance is put out, it is to be assumed there was no actual
interference and that runner is out-not the batter. Any other
runners on the base at the time may advance as the ruling is
that there is no actual interference if a runner is retired. In that
case play proceeds just as if no violation had been called.

If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he
carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire's judgment,
unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the
backswing before the catcher has securely held the ball, it shall
be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead,
however, and no runner shall advance on the play.

 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
y_p_w

External


Since: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 18



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lurch wrote:
> And the 2nd baseman must touch 2nd base before throwing the ball to 1st to
> complete the DP.

That's the Joe Morgan exception.

> Also the batters must bat from within the box as well, but
> how many are truly batting from the back of the box? While the Rangers have
> shot themselves in the FEET numerous times this season, it sure seems that
> many screwball calls have gone against them this season. How many times is
> interference NOT called when the batter has done the same thing? I would
> bet more than once. I am sick of the umps selectively making calls - across
> the board. And the timing could not have been more perfect.

I've actually seen it called several times. It's a judgement call as
to intent if the batter stays in the box and the catcher hits the
batter. It's almost automatic if the batter is across the plate and
there's contact. I've even seen a Fox national televised game
where the batter walked to the dugout over home plate after strike
3 swinging and the catcher tried avoiding him while making a throw
to 2nd on a steal attempt. The announcing crew noted that the
baserunner would have been automatically out if the catcher had
just thrown though him and made contact.

The rule is the same in college baseball:

<http://stanford.scout.com/2/363271.html>

"But with runners at first and second and one out, Stanford could
not cash in as Taylor struck out and then with the runners in
motion, Taylor fell over the plate which did not allow catcher Matt
Wilson to make a throw to third base. Correctly, batters
interference was called and the inning was over. It was just that
kind of night for the Cardinal."
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
y_p_w

External


Since: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 18



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

*mavs* wrote:
> If you put the play into realplay like they did on the news.. it clearly
> shows there was no reaction time... He swung through and the catcher knew he
> was going to second and didnt hesitate.
>
> I didn't see it effect the throw. I think the umps could have used better
> judgement there and let it go.

The concept behind the rules isn't whether or not it affected the play,
but that there should be a punishment for an illegal action. If a
baserunner interferes with a fielder on the basepaths, the runner is
out and all other baserunners have to return. Or even if the
baserunner is 2/3 of the way to a stolen base, he could be out or
forced to return to his previous base if batter interference is ruled.
Here are a few "officials forum" discussions on the subject. Granted
these talk about the situation where the batter hasn't struck out yet,
but since DeRosa had struck out, the only sanction available to the
ump is to rule the runner out.

<http://users.ameritech.net/ellimd/Basic_rules.htm>

"An umpire must use good judgment. The batter cannot be
expected to immediately disappear. If he has a chance to
avoid interference after he has had time to react to the
situation and does not, he is guilty. If he just swung at a pitch,
or had to duck a pitch and is off-balance, he can't reasonably
be expected to then avoid a play at the plate. **The batter
should always be called out when he makes contact and is
outside the box."

<http://forum.officiating.com/printthread.php?threadid=20957>

Go down to the opinion by "PeteBooth":

"The reason we need intent in your play is because the batter
has the right to offer/swing at any pitch he so chooses. In addition,
one cannot expect the batter to simply vanish.

Let's assume the same situation as above except this time B1
swings hard and his momentum carries him right across home
plate interfering with F2's throw.

In the aforementioned, even though B1 didn't meant to interfere
the fact is he did so we peanlize."
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
y_p_w

External


Since: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 18



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

*mavs* wrote:

> I think the umpire should use discretion... i.e. did it effect the throw,
> and was it intentional... neither happened... mlb rules arent upheld by the
> supreme court lol.. so the umpire should be fair.. and he wasnt.. whatever
> the case oakland won and would have won

This is a fairly common "textbook" case that is common in umpiring
schools. One of the links I pointed to had a reference to the "Jim
Evans Official Baseball Rules Annotated" book from a former MLB
umpire and an owner of the Academy of Professional Umpiring.

<http://www.umpireacademy.com>

"The action by the batter which causes interference does not have
to be intentional. The batter is obligated to avoid making any
movement which obstructs, impedes, or hinders the catcher's
play in any way. A swing which carries the batter over home plate
and subsequently complicates the catcher's play or attempted play
should be ruled interference. Contact between the batter and
catcher does not necessarily have to occur for interference to be
ruled. Merely blocking the catcher's vision to second base may very
possibly be interference."

In my experience of watching MLB, once contact is made with the
batter over the plate, interference is virtually an automatic call if
there's a runner in motion. The only discretion I've seen is if
there isn't any contact made. Like I said, the out was a punishment
for the infraction and not an attempt to make up for what may or
may not have happened if Kendall had made an unobstructed throw.
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
y_p_w

External


Since: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 18



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

*mavs* wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_p_w.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155166268.710083.126620@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > "The action by the batter which causes interference does not have
> > to be intentional. The batter is obligated to avoid making any
> > movement which obstructs, impedes, or hinders the catcher's
> > play in any way."
>
> Yeah but wouldnt that hinder on intention?

All the interpretations I've seen state that if contact is made with
the catcher, intention only comes into play if the batter is still in
the box. If the batter sticks his hand/bat out or otherwise looks
like he's trying to break up the throw while he's in the box, then
yeah - intention matters. This was written by a guy with 29 years
of MLB umpiring experience, who supervised MLB umpires, and
operates a professional umpiring school.

> > A swing which carries the batter over home plate
> > and subsequently complicates the catcher's play or attempted play
> > should be ruled interference. Contact between the batter and
> > catcher does not necessarily have to occur for interference to be
> > ruled. Merely blocking the catcher's vision to second base may very
> > possibly be interference."
>
> Fair enough but I dont agree with the rule.. the batter is going to come
> over home plate on that hard of a swing..

This is the way the rule has been interpreted for as long as I can
remember. The whole point is that the batter has a reasonable
expectation that he'll be protected for unintentional actions while
in the batters box, but that he's invading someone else's rightful
space if he doesn't hit the ball and is out of the box. A baserunner
has to avoid contacting a fielder even if the "natural" course is
blocked by that fielder.
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Lurch

External


Since: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 53



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

And the 2nd baseman must touch 2nd base before throwing the ball to 1st to
complete the DP. Also the batters must bat from within the box as well, but
how many are truly batting from the back of the box? While the Rangers have
shot themselves in the FEET numerous times this season, it sure seems that
many screwball calls have gone against them this season. How many times is
interference NOT called when the batter has done the same thing? I would
bet more than once. I am sick of the umps selectively making calls - across
the board. And the timing could not have been more perfect.

Lurch

"y_p_w" <y_p_w.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155153343.763417.195970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> *mavs* wrote:
>> Huh? The Rangers played misserable tonite, making silly errors and such,
>> so
>> I am not going to blame the loss on that. They probablly wouldnt win this
>> game anyway.
>>
>> Isnt Derosa allowed a swing through? How is it the catcher can get up
>> step
>> into the batters box to make the throw to second and make contact with
>> Derosas batt (not even enough to make him wince) and get a interferance
>> call
>> to end the game?
>
> DeRosa's entire body was right in front of the plate, so technically
> he was out of the batters box. On the previous swing, he wandered
> all the way across the plate and out of the left hander's batters box.
>
> One rule (6.06c) doesn't penalize the batter if the backswing makes
> contact with the catcher before the ball is cleanly caught, but Kendall
> had already caught it, and was of course making a throw while
> DeRosa was out of the batters box.
>
>> Also, I find it interesting that the A's have ended two games this year
>> with
>> an interferance call with the same umpire crew.
>
> http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp
>
> 7.09
> It is interference by a batter or a runner when --
>
> (e) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or
> impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner
> shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
>
> ** ** **
>
> If the same thing had happened on the previous pitch, Rule
> 6.06c would have applied:
>
> <http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp>
>
> 6.06
> A batter is out for illegal action when --
>
> (c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping
> out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders
> the catcher's play at home base. EXCEPTION: Batter is not out if
> any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if runner trying to
> score is called out for batter's interference.
>
> Rule 6.06(c) Comment: If the batter interferes with the catcher, the
> plate umpire shall call "interference." The batter is out and the
> ball dead. No player may advance on such interference (offensive
> interference) and all runners must return to the last base that was,
> in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the
> interference.
>
> If, however, the catcher makes a play and the runner attempting to
> advance is put out, it is to be assumed there was no actual
> interference and that runner is out-not the batter. Any other
> runners on the base at the time may advance as the ruling is
> that there is no actual interference if a runner is retired. In that
> case play proceeds just as if no violation had been called.
>
> If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he
> carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire's judgment,
> unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the
> backswing before the catcher has securely held the ball, it shall
> be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead,
> however, and no runner shall advance on the play.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
*mavs*

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 29



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

If you put the play into realplay like they did on the news.. it clearly
shows there was no reaction time... He swung through and the catcher knew he
was going to second and didnt hesitate.

I didn't see it effect the throw. I think the umps could have used better
judgement there and let it go.

"y_p_w" <y_p_w.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155153343.763417.195970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> *mavs* wrote:
>> Huh? The Rangers played misserable tonite, making silly errors and such,
>> so
>> I am not going to blame the loss on that. They probablly wouldnt win this
>> game anyway.
>>
>> Isnt Derosa allowed a swing through? How is it the catcher can get up
>> step
>> into the batters box to make the throw to second and make contact with
>> Derosas batt (not even enough to make him wince) and get a interferance
>> call
>> to end the game?
>
> DeRosa's entire body was right in front of the plate, so technically
> he was out of the batters box. On the previous swing, he wandered
> all the way across the plate and out of the left hander's batters box.
>
> One rule (6.06c) doesn't penalize the batter if the backswing makes
> contact with the catcher before the ball is cleanly caught, but Kendall
> had already caught it, and was of course making a throw while
> DeRosa was out of the batters box.
>
>> Also, I find it interesting that the A's have ended two games this year
>> with
>> an interferance call with the same umpire crew.
>
> http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp
>
> 7.09
> It is interference by a batter or a runner when --
>
> (e) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or
> impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner
> shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
>
> ** ** **
>
> If the same thing had happened on the previous pitch, Rule
> 6.06c would have applied:
>
> <http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp>
>
> 6.06
> A batter is out for illegal action when --
>
> (c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping
> out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders
> the catcher's play at home base. EXCEPTION: Batter is not out if
> any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if runner trying to
> score is called out for batter's interference.
>
> Rule 6.06(c) Comment: If the batter interferes with the catcher, the
> plate umpire shall call "interference." The batter is out and the
> ball dead. No player may advance on such interference (offensive
> interference) and all runners must return to the last base that was,
> in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the
> interference.
>
> If, however, the catcher makes a play and the runner attempting to
> advance is put out, it is to be assumed there was no actual
> interference and that runner is out-not the batter. Any other
> runners on the base at the time may advance as the ruling is
> that there is no actual interference if a runner is retired. In that
> case play proceeds just as if no violation had been called.
>
> If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he
> carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire's judgment,
> unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the
> backswing before the catcher has securely held the ball, it shall
> be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead,
> however, and no runner shall advance on the play.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
*mavs*

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 29



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"y_p_w" <y_p_w RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155163297.914663.200960@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> *mavs* wrote:
>> If you put the play into realplay like they did on the news.. it clearly
>> shows there was no reaction time... He swung through and the catcher knew
>> he
>> was going to second and didnt hesitate.
>>
>> I didn't see it effect the throw. I think the umps could have used better
>> judgement there and let it go.
>
> The concept behind the rules isn't whether or not it affected the play,
> but that there should be a punishment for an illegal action.

I think the umpire should use discretion... i.e. did it effect the throw,
and was it intentional... neither happened... mlb rules arent upheld by the
supreme court lol.. so the umpire should be fair.. and he wasnt.. whatever
the case oakland won and would have won


If a
> baserunner interferes with a fielder on the basepaths, the runner is
> out and all other baserunners have to return. Or even if the
> baserunner is 2/3 of the way to a stolen base, he could be out or
> forced to return to his previous base if batter interference is ruled.
> Here are a few "officials forum" discussions on the subject. Granted
> these talk about the situation where the batter hasn't struck out yet,
> but since DeRosa had struck out, the only sanction available to the
> ump is to rule the runner out.
>
> <http://users.ameritech.net/ellimd/Basic_rules.htm>
>
> "An umpire must use good judgment. The batter cannot be
> expected to immediately disappear. If he has a chance to
> avoid interference after he has had time to react to the
> situation and does not, he is guilty. If he just swung at a pitch,
> or had to duck a pitch and is off-balance, he can't reasonably
> be expected to then avoid a play at the plate. **The batter
> should always be called out when he makes contact and is
> outside the box."
>
> <http://forum.officiating.com/printthread.php?threadid=20957>
>
> Go down to the opinion by "PeteBooth":
>
> "The reason we need intent in your play is because the batter
> has the right to offer/swing at any pitch he so chooses. In addition,
> one cannot expect the batter to simply vanish.
>
> Let's assume the same situation as above except this time B1
> swings hard and his momentum carries him right across home
> plate interfering with F2's throw.
>
> In the aforementioned, even though B1 didn't meant to interfere
> the fact is he did so we peanlize."
>
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
*mavs*

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 29



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: Interferance call on Derosa? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"y_p_w" <y_p_w.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155166268.710083.126620@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

> "The action by the batter which causes interference does not have
> to be intentional. The batter is obligated to avoid making any
> movement which obstructs, impedes, or hinders the catcher's
> play in any way."

Yeah but wouldnt that hinder on intention?

> A swing which carries the batter over home plate
> and subsequently complicates the catcher's play or attempted play
> should be ruled interference. Contact between the batter and
> catcher does not necessarily have to occur for interference to be
> ruled. Merely blocking the catcher's vision to second base may very
> possibly be interference."

Fair enough but I dont agree with the rule.. the batter is going to come
over home plate on that hard of a swing..
 >> Stay informed about: Interferance call on Derosa? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Baseball Forums (Home) -> Texas Rangers All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]