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Next: Lousy World Series
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:00 pm
Post subject: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport
Archived from groups: rec>sport>baseball, others (more info?)
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From a pure baseball perspective, having the Red Sox win the World
Series was one of the worst things to happen to baseball. The story of
a major market team never winning for decades gave it a cult-like
status and made for compelling story lines, especially this angle of
the so-called "curse" of Babe Ruth. It gave the Red Sox extra support
and interest.
(Aside Now the REAL curse of the Red Sox was not 1918 trade to Babe
Ruth but that the Red Sox happen to be in the same division as the
prepaid championship Yankees all these years, thus were blocked from
even making the playoffs in most years despite having a very good team
prior to the wild-card. It was the wild-card format that broke this
REAL curse.)
Now the Red Sox are just another high-priced, championship-bought
team. The Red Sox broke the REAL curse (and just barely) by doing what
the Yankees have been doing all these years, by being a team that buys
its way into the playoffs and eventual championships. Given enough
money and soemewhat competent GM-ship, eventually things will break
that team's way and they will win it all.
Of course, that is true in any sport. But the point is that in all
other sports, nearly every team has this opportuniy to do this. But
the sad thing about baseball is that this is even only possible for a
select number of teams. Despite having 30 teams, in reality, MLB is
really a very small league of perpetual contenders and a much larger
league of doormats that will never be able to compete no matter what.
Due to lack of money, these teams (Pirates, Expos, Devil Rays, etc)
will probably never make the playoffs or even have a decent winning
season. If these teams develop talent, they can't hold on to them.
They don't have the money to sign any decent FAs either. Consider that
many players make more money than the payroll of entire TEAMS!
So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
the same damn teams year after year after year. |
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External
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Email Invalid" <email_invalid.TakeThisOut@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:8a9be796.0410281200.1d25249d@posting.google.com...
> So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major
> league
> of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually
> decline
> as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing
> teams
> lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs
> with
> the same damn teams year after year after year.
Speaking of gasps....yawwwwwn.
What was the Marlins' payroll last year?
What were the Angels, Cardinals, Dodgers, and Astros doing during the
playoffs last year? |
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Email Invalid" <email_invalid DeleteThis @mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:8a9be796.0410281200.1d25249d@posting.google.com...
> From a pure baseball perspective, having the Red Sox win the World
> Series was one of the worst things to happen to baseball. The story of
> a major market team never winning for decades gave it a cult-like
> status and made for compelling story lines, especially this angle of
> the so-called "curse" of Babe Ruth. It gave the Red Sox extra support
> and interest.
>
> (Aside Now the REAL curse of the Red Sox was not 1918 trade to Babe
> Ruth but that the Red Sox happen to be in the same division as the
> prepaid championship Yankees all these years, thus were blocked from
> even making the playoffs in most years despite having a very good team
> prior to the wild-card. It was the wild-card format that broke this
> REAL curse.)
>
> Now the Red Sox are just another high-priced, championship-bought
> team. The Red Sox broke the REAL curse (and just barely) by doing what
> the Yankees have been doing all these years, by being a team that buys
> its way into the playoffs and eventual championships. Given enough
> money and soemewhat competent GM-ship, eventually things will break
> that team's way and they will win it all.
>
> Of course, that is true in any sport. But the point is that in all
> other sports, nearly every team has this opportuniy to do this. But
> the sad thing about baseball is that this is even only possible for a
> select number of teams. Despite having 30 teams, in reality, MLB is
> really a very small league of perpetual contenders and a much larger
> league of doormats that will never be able to compete no matter what.
> Due to lack of money, these teams (Pirates, Expos, Devil Rays, etc)
> will probably never make the playoffs or even have a decent winning
> season. If these teams develop talent, they can't hold on to them.
> They don't have the money to sign any decent FAs either. Consider that
> many players make more money than the payroll of entire TEAMS!
>
> So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
> of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
> as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
> lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
> the same damn teams year after year after year.
The Yankees have never won a championship while grossly overspending teams.
This is all relatively new. One of the recent championship years for the
Yankees, they were actually outspent by the Baltimore Orioles. I don't
remember the exact year but it wasn't that long ago. I'm sure you can look
it up.
Personally, I think the salary cap/profit sharing system could be improved.
The addition of the Wild Card has enabled some of the smaller market teams
to compete, which I think is a good thing. Baseball would be kind of boring
to me if the Yankees won every year, and I am a Yankees fan. Getting
punched in the stomach like we did this year only makes me want to watch
more baseball. I like being the underdog for a change.
All in all, money doesn't buy championships. The Sox have had very quality
teams in the past. This year, they corrected some of the mistakes and
reasons for losing in the past. If a "Mienkiewicz-like" player would have
replaced Buckner in the late innings of 86, they would have won. They
didn't overuse their starters like they have in the past a'la Grady Little.
In fact, sometimes they pulled the trigger too early. (Game 7 with Derek
Lowe - I still don't understand why Pedro came in that game) The bottom
line is they performed best when it counted most. They deserved to win. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Sep 08, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"James M. Magoo" <YANXandNIX DeleteThis @GoCards.com> wrote in message
news:cRcgd.7654$Ae.5065@newsread1.dllstx09.us.to.verio.net...
>
> All in all, money doesn't buy championships. The Sox have had very
quality
> teams in the past. This year, they corrected some of the mistakes and
> reasons for losing in the past. If a "Mienkiewicz-like" player would have
> replaced Buckner in the late innings of 86, they would have won.
Why are there still so many idiots around that still think that if Buckner
makes that play, the Red Sox win the World Series...? The game was already
tied by then and there's no way Boston would have come back from that
devastating blow.
-----
"Buck up little New Englander; don't let the pain of another Red sox
collapse get to you like this." - David Lee Stupidi-T, 10-17-04 >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Jul 23, 2005
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"QuiGon12" <QuiGon12.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:TNydnQ6OTIll9xzcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "James M. Magoo" <YANXandNIX.TakeThisOut@GoCards.com> wrote in message
> news:cRcgd.7654$Ae.5065@newsread1.dllstx09.us.to.verio.net...
>>
>> All in all, money doesn't buy championships. The Sox have had very
> quality
>> teams in the past. This year, they corrected some of the mistakes and
>> reasons for losing in the past. If a "Mienkiewicz-like" player would
>> have
>> replaced Buckner in the late innings of 86, they would have won.
>
> Why are there still so many idiots around that still think that if Buckner
> makes that play, the Red Sox win the World Series...? The game was
> already
> tied by then and there's no way Boston would have come back from that
> devastating blow.
> -----
> "Buck up little New Englander; don't let the pain of another Red sox
> collapse get to you like this." - David Lee Stupidi-T, 10-17-04
It's funny how you took a previous poster's quote after the Sox won it all.
How brave of you? Why not take one of your own quotes where you gave up
this year's Sox team. Something like this:
10/17/04 by QuiGon12 (After Game 3)
"My brand of Sox support is that I support the Sox 100% but I am smart
enough to know when they are beaten and to congratulate the victors."
Apparently, you're not as smart as you think you are. You and CurlyC would
make great friends! >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Apr 30, 2005
Posts: 2295
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Email Invalid" <email_invalid DeleteThis @mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:8a9be796.0410281200.1d25249d@posting.google.com...
> From a pure baseball perspective, having the Red Sox win the World
> Series was one of the worst things to happen to baseball. The story of
> a major market team never winning for decades gave it a cult-like
> status and made for compelling story lines, especially this angle of
> the so-called "curse" of Babe Ruth. It gave the Red Sox extra support
> and interest.
>
> (Aside Now the REAL curse of the Red Sox was not 1918 trade to Babe
> Ruth but that the Red Sox happen to be in the same division as the
> prepaid championship Yankees all these years, thus were blocked from
> even making the playoffs in most years despite having a very good team
> prior to the wild-card. It was the wild-card format that broke this
> REAL curse.)
>
> Now the Red Sox are just another high-priced, championship-bought
> team. The Red Sox broke the REAL curse (and just barely) by doing what
> the Yankees have been doing all these years, by being a team that buys
> its way into the playoffs and eventual championships. Given enough
> money and soemewhat competent GM-ship, eventually things will break
> that team's way and they will win it all.
>
> Of course, that is true in any sport. But the point is that in all
> other sports, nearly every team has this opportuniy to do this. But
> the sad thing about baseball is that this is even only possible for a
> select number of teams. Despite having 30 teams, in reality, MLB is
> really a very small league of perpetual contenders and a much larger
> league of doormats that will never be able to compete no matter what.
> Due to lack of money, these teams (Pirates, Expos, Devil Rays, etc)
> will probably never make the playoffs or even have a decent winning
> season. If these teams develop talent, they can't hold on to them.
> They don't have the money to sign any decent FAs either. Consider that
> many players make more money than the payroll of entire TEAMS!
>
> So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
> of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
> as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
> lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
> the same damn teams year after year after year.
What an idiot.
You have shown that you know nothing about baseball at all. How do you
explain the many many years that small-market teams have made it into the
playoffs?
By the way, Babe Ruth was traded in 1920, not 1918. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Email Invalid" <email_invalid.TakeThisOut@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:8a9be796.0410281200.1d25249d@posting.google.com...
> From a pure baseball perspective, having the Red Sox win the World
> Series was one of the worst things to happen to baseball. The story of
> a major market team never winning for decades gave it a cult-like
> status and made for compelling story lines, especially this angle of
> the so-called "curse" of Babe Ruth. It gave the Red Sox extra support
> and interest.
What about the Cubs or the White Sox? Chicago has suffered a
longer drought than Boston.
> So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
> of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
> as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
> lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
> the same damn teams year after year after year.
Hmmm..... Anahiem and the Marlins are minor league losers? Tell
the fans that. This part of your messages sounds eerily like a
John Edwards speech. (just kidding) >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> > So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
> > of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> > this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
> > as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
> > lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
> > the same damn teams year after year after year.
>
> I'm going to agree with you here. But until baseball changes it's structure,
> what do expect the rest of the teams to do? Voluntarily limit their payroll
> and let the Yankees win the championship every year?
The point is that MLB is the only league where a majority of the teams
will never have the chance to ever be competitive because of lack of
money to spend on players. None of the other sports leagues have this
issue, especially NFL, where every team has the same amount of money
to spend.
Thus MLB is a sham league in many respects. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"James M. Magee" <YANXandNIX DeleteThis @GoCards.com> wrote in message
news:cRcgd.7654$Ae.5065@newsread1.dllstx09.us.to.verio.net...
> In fact, sometimes they pulled the trigger too early. (Game 7 with Derek
> Lowe - I still don't understand why Pedro came in that game)
So Yankee fans could chant "Who's your daddy?".
Everytime I heard that I was laughing my ass off.
With the 5.1 dolby broadcast you could actually hear
chants from different parts of the room. The effect
really puts you into the game.
No disrespect intended to the Red Sox but Pedro
really asked for it. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 744
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 28 Oct 2004 20:44:22 -0700, email_invalid DeleteThis @mail2world.com (Email
Invalid) wrote:
>> > So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
>> > of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
>> > this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
>> > as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
>> > lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
>> > the same damn teams year after year after year.
>>
>> I'm going to agree with you here. But until baseball changes it's structure,
>> what do expect the rest of the teams to do? Voluntarily limit their payroll
>> and let the Yankees win the championship every year?
>
>The point is that MLB is the only league where a majority of the teams
>will never have the chance to ever be competitive because of lack of
>money to spend on players.
Over the past 5 seasons, 5 different MLB teams have won the WS. Of
those teams, two had never won a WS before; one hadn't won in 86
years; one won their second WS a couple of years after being called
one of the teams that couldn't compete. During that stretch, 17 of
the 30 teams made the playoffs at least once - which is a majority of
the teams.
Minnesota, one of the teams most prominently mentioned a couple of
years ago as being in line for contraction because they couldn't
compete, have made the playoffs the past two years, and are considered
to have one of the finest collection of young players of any team,
including the probably AL Cy Young winner. Oakland has consistently
been in the bottom half in terms of player payroll, and made the
playoffs 4 of those 5 seasons.
Milwaukee, the team with the smallest population base to draw from,
has a group of players nearly major league ready that are the envy of
the other 29 teams. They stand a very good chance of making the
playoffs at least several times over the next 5 seasons.
Anybody who claims that the majority of the teams in MLB never have a
chance to be competitive either doesn't know very much about MLB, or
is lying. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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Since: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 299
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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email_invalid RemoveThis @mail2world.com (Email Invalid) wrote in message news:<8a9be796.0410281200.1d25249d RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
> From a pure baseball perspective, having the Red Sox win the World
> Series was one of the worst things to happen to baseball. The story of
> a major market team never winning for decades gave it a cult-like
> status and made for compelling story lines, especially this angle of
> the so-called "curse" of Babe Ruth. It gave the Red Sox extra support
> and interest.
Yes, where on earth are we going to find another major-market team
that hasn't won the World Series for a long time?
> (Aside Now the REAL curse of the Red Sox was not 1918 trade to Babe
> Ruth but that the Red Sox happen to be in the same division as the
> prepaid championship Yankees all these years, thus were blocked from
> even making the playoffs in most years despite having a very good team
> prior to the wild-card. It was the wild-card format that broke this
> REAL curse.)
Prior to the wild card, being in the same division as the Yankees kept
the Red Sox out of the playoffs once, twice tops: Obviously 1978, and
maybe 1977, when the Red Sox tied for second place in the division.
That leave eighty-some years worth of curse unaccounted for.
> Now the Red Sox are just another high-priced, championship-bought
> team. The Red Sox broke the REAL curse (and just barely) by doing what
> the Yankees have been doing all these years, by being a team that buys
> its way into the playoffs and eventual championships. Given enough
> money and soemewhat competent GM-ship, eventually things will break
> that team's way and they will win it all.
>
> Of course, that is true in any sport. But the point is that in all
> other sports, nearly every team has this opportuniy to do this. But
> the sad thing about baseball is that this is even only possible for a
> select number of teams. Despite having 30 teams, in reality, MLB is
> really a very small league of perpetual contenders and a much larger
> league of doormats that will never be able to compete no matter what.
> Due to lack of money, these teams (Pirates, Expos, Devil Rays, etc)
> will probably never make the playoffs or even have a decent winning
> season. If these teams develop talent, they can't hold on to them.
> They don't have the money to sign any decent FAs either. Consider that
> many players make more money than the payroll of entire TEAMS!
>
> So in effect, the MLB is two leagues in one. A real small major league
> of contenders and a big minor league of perpetual losers. And it is
> this aspect of MLB that will ultimately cause it to eventually decline
> as the vast majority of the teams that are the perpetual losing teams
> lose fans and as fatigue sets in from watching too many playoffs with
> the same damn teams year after year after year.
You named three teams that have no chance at winning ("etc" isn't a
team). We know at least five teams have a chance - the Yankees and
the four that have won the World Series more recently than the
Yankees. How do you get from there to the notion that most teams have
no chance? >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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External
Since: Dec 05, 2004
Posts: 209
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Realto Margarino" <rm DeleteThis @justlinux.nope.ca> wrote in message
news:pCfgd.22266$rs5.948051@news20.bellglobal.com...
> In rec.sport.baseball ReddShadoe <reddshadoe2 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> What an idiot.
>>
>> You have shown that you know nothing about baseball at all. How
>> do you explain the many many years that small-market teams have
>> made it into the playoffs?
>
> Good management and small market will compete _some_ of the time.
>
> Good management and large market will compete _all_ the time.
>
> Idiot, indeed.
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm
The original poster's nonsensical comments have been proven false many times
over. He is just upset that Boston won the World Series. Never mind that
Florida won last year, the Angels the year before, the DBacks the year
before that...a quick look at the playoffs for any given year shows that
high payroll does NOT equal success. Good management and small market will
compete all of the time, just as large market does. It has been proven year
after year. But when a high-payroll team makes the playoffs, they're
suddenly 'buying a championship'? Come on. >> Stay informed about: Last Gasp of a Dying Sport |
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