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Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!!

 
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Don V.

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Since: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 92



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:00 am
Post subject: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!!
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>bos-redsox (more info?)

Interesting opinion from Joe Morgan last night on ESPN. He's of the
opinion that the Yankees recent 4 game losing streak is the sign of
things to come. Basically that their winning up to now has been with
smoke and mirrors and that it can't last much longer. So probably now we
should expect they WILL continue to win? <G>

How by all that's holy can NESN go through the first two segments, the
important ones news wise, with no audio. Except during the ads of
course.

Using Foulke last weekend after not using him for so long prior to that
turned out to be a minor snafu with the DL'ing today. Now they're locked
into a longer time they have to be without him rather than being able to
bring him back sooner should he improve quickly.

Some may question taking Schilling out after 8 with the low pitch count
but it's hard to argue with it when the guy you bring in is The
Papenator.

Schilling was throwing a lot of ground ball outs tonight for a fly ball
pitcher. Co-indidence or a further evolution of a guy adjusting to
getting older?

Big Papi looked frustrated worse than he usually does on a bad night.

I really, really, really wanted Timlin to come back out for the bottom
of the 12th. Especially once they took the lead. I know he's just off
the DL but he'd only thrown 15 pitches. What I really wanted though
was the third inning from Papelbon. That gets you to Timlin an inning
late and avoids using the GOATINATOR that is Tavarez.
------------------------------------------------------------
Opponent: at Twins
Game data:
Lose 5 - 2 12 innings
Tavarez
Captain V'Tek HR 7
Season's record: 36 - 26
Series record: 0 - 1
Trip/stand record: 0 - 1
----------------------------------------------
This game's +s and -s and STAR and comments:
Starting pitching:
Curt is the STAR tonight for the dominating 8 innings giving up just 1
run in an intense game.
Relief pitching
The Papenator gets a " + " for the 2 scoreless innings.:
Tavarez is the GOAT for being what he alwys seems to be in close games.
Offense:
AGon gets a " + " for the 3 hits and hustle that avoided the double play
to allow the go ahead run to score.
Coco gets a " - " for the 4 LOB and a GIDP.
Management :
Defense:
Youk gets a " + " for throwing leather around all night.
Francona gets a " - " for not usin the pen as I elt he should have.
Even failng all else Riske would have been a better risk (Hey, I still
got a sense of humor.<G>) than GOATVAREZ.
----------------------------------------------
This game's starting pitching grade and comments: (Based on 1 to 3)
3-----Not Santana like but still very good.
----------------------------------------------
This games relief pitching grade and comments: (Based on 1 to 3)
2-----The problem with reverse usage.
----------------------------------------------
This game's hitting grade and comments: (Based on 1 to 3)
1-----Hard tto feel bad about it though.
----------------------------------------------
This game's defense grade and comments:
(Based on 1 to 3)
3-----And Trot did good too.
----------------------------------------------
Season's starters grades:
17-----1s
25-----2s
19-----3s
1------N/A
-----------------------------------------
Season's relievers grades:
14-----1s
12-----2s
34-----3s
2------N/A
----------------------------------------
Season's offensive grades:
22-----1s
14-----2
25-----3s
1------N/A
---------------------------------------
Season's defensive grades:
6-----1
35-----2s
20-----3s
1-----N/A
---------------------------------
Series record 10 - 7 - 2
Series sweeps 3
Road trips: 3 - 2
Road record:18 - 16
Home record: 18 - 10
Home stands 3 - 0 - 1
Blowouts-------- 8 - 8
LABW----7
Walk off wins-----2
One run games 10 - 6
Two run games 6 - 3
T & WMP DL period 10 - 7
------------------
vs. TEE 5 - 5
vs. Os 8 - 1
vs. Jays 4 -7
vs. Rays 7 - 3
vs. East 24 - 16
-------------
vs. Twins 0 - 1
vs. Royals
vs Tigers 2 - 1
vs.Indians 1 - 2
  vs. White Sox
vs. Central 3 - 4
-----------------
vs As
vs Angels
vs. Rangers 4 - 4
vs. Mariners 3 - 1
vs. West 7 - 5
--------------
vs. N.L. 2 - 1
---------------
Vs. lefties 8 - 8
3 run homers 6
Grand Slams 1
Shut outs 0 - 2
Compete games 1
Quality starts-------30
BS--2 vs. saves--21
Red Shirt record 2 - 1
Extra innings 0 - 2
----------------------------------------------
STARS
Pitching:
Curt 6
Becket 4
Wake 3
Foulke 1
Offense
BIG PAPI 3
Youk 2
Trot 2
Loretta 1
Lowell 1
AGon 1
----------------------------------------------
GOATS
Clement 3
Beckett 1
Wake 1
FFB 1
Riske 1
Seanez 1
Offense:
AGon 1
Harris 1
Tavarez 1
----------------------------------------------
PLUSES & MINUSES
Pitching:
Curt + 16 / - 2 = + 14
The Papenator + 13
Wake + 12 / - 4 = + 9
Beckett + 11 / - 7 = + 4
Van Buren + 2
DiNardo + 3 / - 2 = + 1
Timlin + 2 / - 1 = + 1
Foulke + 4 / - 5 = - 1
Clement + 5 / - 6 = - 1
Riske - 3
FFB + 1 / - 2 = - 1
Tavarez + 5 / - 5 = 0
L'il Manny + 2 / - 2 = 0
Pauley + 1 / - 2 =- 10
Seanez + 1 / - 10 = - 9
Alvarez - 1
Offense:
Manny + 8
BIG PAPI + 10 / - 2 = + 8
Youk + 9 / - - 2 = + 7
Loretta + 7 / - 1 = + 6
Trot + 7 / - 2 = + 5
Captain V'Tek + 6 / 1 = + 5
Lowell + 5 / - 3 = + 2
Stern + 1
Whiley Mo + 2 / - 1 = + 1
Beckett + 1
Coco + 1 / - 1 = 0
Mirabelli - 1
AGon + 5 / - 6 = - 1
Harris - 2
Defense:
Manny + 2
Loretta + 1
Trot + 1
Stern + 1
Harris + 1
Youk + 1
Lowell + 1 / - 1 = 0
Cora + 1 / - 1 = 0
Bard + 1 / - 3 = - 2
Managerial:
Tito + 2 / - 3 = - 1

It's 2006 and it's here
again!!! BRING IT ON!!!
DON!!!

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smacdo

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Since: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 118



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Don V. wrote:
> Interesting opinion from Joe Morgan last night on ESPN. He's of the
> opinion that the Yankees recent 4 game losing streak is the sign of
> things to come. Basically that their winning up to now has been with
> smoke and mirrors and that it can't last much longer. So probably now we
> should expect they WILL continue to win? <G>

Joe Morgan is an idiot. That being said, I hope for once he is right.

> Using Foulke last weekend after not using him for so long prior to that
> turned out to be a minor snafu with the DL'ing today. Now they're locked
> into a longer time they have to be without him rather than being able to
> bring him back sooner should he improve quickly.

Judging by his performance at times this year it might be addition by
subtraction? Wink

Actually, a game like this is where he is missed most. Even if he
isn't in 2004 form, if he was just able to be reliable...he would give
the Sox a guy who can get them two (and maybe three on the right night)
innings and he has done the closing/high leverage thing before. Its
really too bad he can't seem to get it together. If he can, the Sox
bully goes from problematic to, well something less than problematic.
Wink

> Big Papi looked frustrated worse than he usually does on a bad night.

I don't have the stats in front of me...but IIRC Papi doesn't do as
well in the 'dome. I will have to check that out...

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McDuck

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 589



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:52 am
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:00:42 -0400, barredon42152.TakeThisOut@webtv.net (Don V.)
quacked:


>Some may question taking Schilling out after 8 with the low pitch count
>but it's hard to argue with it when the guy you bring in is The
>Papenator.
>
>Schilling was throwing a lot of ground ball outs tonight for a fly ball
>pitcher. Co-indidence or a further evolution of a guy adjusting to
>getting older?
>
>Big Papi looked frustrated worse than he usually does on a bad night.

Agreed. The shift has gotten to him mentally, it would appear.

>
>I really, really, really wanted Timlin to come back out for the bottom
>of the 12th. Especially once they took the lead. I know he's just off
>the DL but he'd only thrown 15 pitches. What I really wanted though
>was the third inning from Papelbon. That gets you to Timlin an inning
>late and avoids using the GOATINATOR that is Tavarez.

Well, I took a sigh of relief when I saw that Schilling was not coming
out for the 9th. Bert Blyleven wanted Santana to come out for the 9th
and implicitly "wanted" Schilling --- that is, he thought it was the
right move. And Bert is wrong more often than Gnork on these "old
school" issues, so I was very sure I was right to welcome Papelbon in
the 9th. And two innings has to be his max --- less if he had serious
trouble. He needs to be available for further duty, and 3 innings for
sure finishes him for the series. The one GOOD think about the "saver"
model is that it helps keep the manager, egged on by the fans, from
overusing the best reliever.

Timlin, you have to rely on the RS management about. We can be sure
that it was agreed before the game that he was available for only one
inning. So it would be stupid to abandon the plan. Anyway, the guy
just got back from the DL from overuse, so it would be silly to start
him off with an excessive burden.

Now, I was hoping to see Delcarmen, but I don't remember when he last
pitched, so perhaps he was not available.

Tavaraz made a huge mistake, which was to fall in love with that
two-seam FB that broke over the plate to a LHB. He struck out Joe
Mauer with it and tried it a couple of times with Kubel. But after
Kubel showed with a foul ball that he was on it, Tavaraz had to give
it up. I don't know who is responsible for the pitch selection, but it
was really bad. The whole point of Tavarez is the sinker for the
potential DP. So why not throw the sinker?

Also bad to let the count go to 3-2. What is the point of having Manny
playing deep SS if you are going to let the runners off with the
pitch? Wasting a pitch at 2-2 with a "chase" slider outside made no
sense to me.

That was a terrific play in the 12th by the MN SS to get a force at 2d
and almost get a DP. If that play is not made, the RS might have
broken the game wide open.

As for tomorrow, let's hope Radke continues to be mediocre. In prior
years, he could be a really tough guy.
--McDuck
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DonFromBarre

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 481



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:45 am
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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McDuck says:
<<Now, I was hoping to see Delcarmen, but I don't remember when he last
pitched, so perhaps he was not available.>>

With the off day Monday I don't see how he couldn't have been available
based on use. Unless you're suggesting relievers only pitch one out of
every three days or less? <G>

--
DON !!!
GOING BASIC !!!
GO 200SIX BOSTON
RED SOX !!!
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 589



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:45:06 -0400, DonFromBarre DeleteThis @webtv.net quacked:

>McDuck says:
><<Now, I was hoping to see Delcarmen, but I don't remember when he last
>pitched, so perhaps he was not available.>>
>
>With the off day Monday I don't see how he couldn't have been available
>based on use. Unless you're suggesting relievers only pitch one out of
>every three days or less? <G>

I just looked it up. He pitched 2 innings on Sunday for the win. I'm
not sure how much rest the team wants a young pitcher to get after two
inings of relief. I'd guess he was border-line available. Anyway, if
the team felt he was available, I'd have wanted to see him, especially
after the HBP.
--McDuck
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DonFromBarre

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 481



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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McDuck says:
<<I just looked it up. He pitched 2 innings on Sunday for the win. I'm
not sure how much rest the team wants a young pitcher to get after two
inings of relief. I'd guess he was border-line available. Anyway, if the
team felt he was available, I'd have wanted to see him, especially after
the HBP.>>

Your guess sounds more like an opinion that's easy to state because it
supports your philosophy. I didn't hear anything suggesting he might
not be available.

--
DON !!!
GOING BASIC !!!
GO 200SIX BOSTON
RED SOX !!!
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 589



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:35:52 -0400, DonFromBarre.DeleteThis@webtv.net quacked:

>McDuck says:
><<I just looked it up. He pitched 2 innings on Sunday for the win. I'm
>not sure how much rest the team wants a young pitcher to get after two
>inings of relief. I'd guess he was border-line available. Anyway, if the
>team felt he was available, I'd have wanted to see him, especially after
>the HBP.>>
>
>Your guess sounds more like an opinion that's easy to state because it
>supports your philosophy. I didn't hear anything suggesting he might
>not be available.

I even get criticized for a guess labeled as a guess? Did you think I
should make guesses that are inconsistent with my views? Anyway, I
didn't know I had a philosophy about the number of days rest for a
young pitcher after a two-inning relief job. Or did you just mean that
I tend not to want to get pitchers injured from overuse?

And I did not guess he was not available. I guessed he was borderline
available --- use him if needed but try to avoid it.

Anyway, after today, I guess my guess that Delcarmen was the guy to
use was not a good guess <g>. so I'm switching to Riske, unless it is
too late. Do you have the URL for the rules on second guessing <g>.
--McDuck
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DonFromBarre

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 481



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:44 pm
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McDuck says:
<<
I even get criticized for a guess labeled as a guess? Did you think I
should make guesses that are inconsistent with my views? Anyway, I
didn't know I had a philosophy about the number of days rest for a young
pitcher after a two-inning relief job. Or did you just mean that I tend
not to want to get pitchers injured from overuse?>>

The very statement that you make in your last sentence IS a philosophy.
Basically you are the anti-Gnork. <G> Going too conservately where he
goes too far the other way. As usual with most of my thinking I fall in
the middle. If Papelbon had been used tonight he'd have been out
tomorrow. But I think he could have gone tonight for an inning. Wombat
Boy (<G>) would use him in all three games I suspect. Your way would
require a 16 man sraff. His would require like 9 guys. <G>

--
DON !!!
GOING BASIC !!!
GO 200SIX BOSTON
RED SOX !!!
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 589



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:18 am
Post subject: Re: Game 62--May 13th--Don's grade/thoughts !!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:44:38 -0400, DonFromBarre DeleteThis @webtv.net quacked:

>McDuck says:
><<
>I even get criticized for a guess labeled as a guess? Did you think I
>should make guesses that are inconsistent with my views? Anyway, I
>didn't know I had a philosophy about the number of days rest for a young
>pitcher after a two-inning relief job. Or did you just mean that I tend
>not to want to get pitchers injured from overuse?>>
>
>The very statement that you make in your last sentence IS a philosophy.
>Basically you are the anti-Gnork. <G> Going too conservately where he
>goes too far the other way. As usual with most of my thinking I fall in
>the middle. If Papelbon had been used tonight he'd have been out
>tomorrow. But I think he could have gone tonight for an inning. Wombat
>Boy (<G>) would use him in all three games I suspect. Your way would
>require a 16 man sraff. His would require like 9 guys. <G>

His way requires 9, or even 8. But not the same 8 --- probably 20,
with 8 pitching and 12 on the DL <g>. But you are incorrect that I
need 16. 11 or 12 good ones would be fine in my system. The problem is
that both you and Gnork want to use the same 8 over and over, with the
other 3 collecting dust.
--McDuck
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DonFromBarre

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 481



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:50 am
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McDuck says:
<< His way requires 9, or even 8. But not the same 8 --- probably 20,
with 8 pitching and 12 on the DL <g>. But you are incorrect that I need
16. 11 or 12 good ones would be fine in my system. The problem is that
both you and Gnork want to use the same 8 over and over, with the other
3 collecting dust.>>

I'm not sure of two things you say here. With your ultra conservative
usage of relievers I think you'd have a lot of days with one or more
guys unavailable. Thus you'd need a staff of more pitchers. Secondly
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being lumped in with Gnork on this (Or
much of anything for that matter). Oh wait, I AM sure I'm not
comfortable with it. <G>

--
DON !!!
GOING BASIC !!!
GO 200SIX BOSTON
RED SOX !!!
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 589



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:23 pm
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On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:50:23 -0400, DonFromBarre DeleteThis @webtv.net quacked:

>McDuck says:
><< His way requires 9, or even 8. But not the same 8 --- probably 20,
>with 8 pitching and 12 on the DL <g>. But you are incorrect that I need
>16. 11 or 12 good ones would be fine in my system. The problem is that
>both you and Gnork want to use the same 8 over and over, with the other
>3 collecting dust.>>
>
>I'm not sure of two things you say here. With your ultra conservative
>usage of relievers I think you'd have a lot of days with one or more
>guys unavailable. Thus you'd need a staff of more pitchers. Secondly
>I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being lumped in with Gnork on this (Or
>much of anything for that matter). Oh wait, I AM sure I'm not
>comfortable with it. <G>

Nice of you to want to be fair to Gnork <g>.

I don't think I'm "ultraconservative" on relief pitchers or pitchers
generally. On starters, I'm pretty much in line with current GMs and
managers, so I may be conservative by historical standards, but not by
current standards. On starters, I could not be more mainstream. Not
that being mainstream is good (or bad, for that matter). I just buy
the caution arguments for starters and especially for young and old or
injured starters.

For relievers, I don't have nearly as well-established views. I'm
wanting to be very careful with young arms, but is there anyone who
doesn't? Really clear that young arms need to be treated carefully.

I'm fine with the "normal" workload of closers --- 70-80 innings, a
little more if they pitch some 2 or 3 inning stinks. For the rest, I
don't have a "philosophy". I worry a bit that Timlin gets too much
work, but, except for the recent DL (which may be related to his
participation in WBC), he seems okay with it. For the normal BP
fodder, I guess I go with what works without many worries. For those
guys, if they get a bit too much work and have to rest some, no big
deal --- not that I want them hurt or anything.
--McDuck
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