Delucci, Marte, et al...

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:06:48 -0400, "Steve" <steveoneill.RemoveThis@alltel.net>
wrote:

>Well, what is the Tribe gonna do ?
>
>Pretend that Delucci/Michaels is gonna work ?

unless we can prove that delucci can't get healthy, shapiro's made
enough good decisions IMO to warrant giving delucci the shot under
normal conditions. shapiro made the platoon work with broussard &
perez a few years ago, struck gold actually, since we were able to
acquire asdrubal cabrera by trading broussard (or was it perez - they
both ended up in seattle).

michaels' #'s against LHP actually improved last season. average
delucci's #'s against RHP his last two healthy years, project that
over 400 ABs, combine that with the average of michaels' last two
years against RHP, projected over about 200 ABs, and that gives us
about .285 15-20 HRs and 80 RBIs.

then again., francisco *is* good enough to play and he actually hits
RHP better than LHP, so i think we want delucci to do well to make it
easier to move him. but i wouldn't start BF full time, i'd still give
*most* of the ABs against LHP to michaels, and pick spots where BF can
be successful against certain LHP and build his confidence.

but we have another problem when shoo is eligible to come off the DL -
a nice problem, since he'd be a cheaper alternative to delucci should
we retain a platoon in LF.

>Isn't Delucci hurt again (forearm/wrist)?
>I'd designate Delucci for assignment,
>have Michaels as the fourth OF,
>and start Francisco in LF.
>
>Pretend that Marte is not a bust ?

the fact he did so well at a young age is awfully significant
predictor of ML success. unless the guy is really 28 or something, he
warrants a liittle more slack, especially since we've got nobody else
who can play 3B next year.

>How can his defense go so south so fast?
>Is anyone in the organization accountable for that?
>But a team relying on ground ball inducing pitching is
>asking for it if Marte and Peralta make up the left side of your infield.
>Seriously, I'd guess that's about one extra run per game.
>And that may be low balling it.
>
>Everyone sold on Lee?

he's not pretty, but when he throws strikes, he tends to win.

>I'm not, and I hope I'm wrong.
>I wanted Laffey on the post-season roster, not Buffalo's.
>
>So many decisions seem to be made based upon salaries
>given at the wrong time at the wrong amount to the wrong people.

shapiro's never had a unlimted supply of $ to work with. delucci and
michaels are probably the biggest blot on shapiro's record up to now.
although marte has yet to pan out, crisp has been a bust, and we've
still got three guys who are better defensive CFs than crisp will ever
be in sizemore, gutierrez and michaels.

good to see some action in thei NG again.

belated happy easter.

--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:00:29 -0700 (PDT), wolfagain <wolf.RemoveThis@provide.net>
wrote:

>On Mar 24, 5:06 pm, "Steve" <steveone....RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote:
>> Well, what is the Tribe gonna do ?
>>
>> Pretend that Delucci/Michaels is gonna work ?
>> Isn't Delucci hurt again (forearm/wrist)?
>> I'd designate Delucci for assignment,
>> have Michaels as the fourth OF,
>> and start Francisco in LF.
>>
>> Pretend that Marte is not a bust ?
>> How can his defense go so south so fast?
>> Is anyone in the organization accountable for that?
>> But a team relying on ground ball inducing pitching is
>> asking for it if Marte and Peralta make up the left side of your infield.
>> Seriously, I'd guess that's about one extra run per game.
>> And that may be low balling it.
>>
>> Everyone sold on Lee?
>> I'm not, and I hope I'm wrong.
>> I wanted Laffey on the post-season roster, not Buffalo's.
>>
>> So many decisions seem to be made based upon salaries
>> given at the wrong time at the wrong amount to the wrong people.
>
>Time to Give Up on Marte. Might get a decent left handed reliever for
>him to replace Fultz who stinks! I EXPECT Francisco to be the everyday
>left fielder by May. Just found out Fultz Cut!

if we drop marte, who will play 3B next year? won't be blake, he's
only got a one year contract. he & michaels are defintely gone -
that's 9 mil we need if we do manage to resign sabathia (which i
really don't see happening, unfortunately).

--------
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 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

"barry" <toisan_boy.DeleteThis@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:itpiu35o6mgtn8a47s7vtl8mgssev95915@4ax.com...

> if we drop marte, who will play 3B next year? won't be blake, he's
> only got a one year contract.

If Marte is at 3rd, the real question is "Who will pitch?",
because all of the Tribe's pitchers will demand trades.

He is just awful defensively, and the Tribe cannot afford that.
I honestly think that he and Peralta on the left side of the IF
are worth a tad over a run per game to the opposition.

After this year:
I hope Peralta goes to 3rd, and Cabrerra goes to SS, and Marte goes away.
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

"barry" <toisan_boy.DeleteThis@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pnoiu35prnb8bf4207snj2br0koai61d8u@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:06:48 -0400, "Steve" <steveoneill.DeleteThis@alltel.net>
> wrote:
>
> unless we can prove that delucci can't get healthy, shapiro's made
> enough good decisions IMO to warrant giving delucci the shot under
> normal conditions. shapiro made the platoon work with broussard &
> perez a few years ago, struck gold actually, since we were able to
> acquire asdrubal cabrera by trading broussard (or was it perez - they
> both ended up in seattle).
>
A problem with platooning is that a roster spot is occupied by two players.
I do not see the sum of those two equalling what Francisco would bring
to the lineup. The time to win is rapidly approaching, and JM and DD's
production has never empirically proven that this particular platoon system
is a good one.
>
> then again., francisco *is* good enough to play and he actually hits
> RHP better than LHP, so i think we want delucci to do well to make it
> easier to move him. but i wouldn't start BF full time, i'd still give
> *most* of the ABs against LHP to michaels, and pick spots where BF can
> be successful against certain LHP and build his confidence.
>
The time for confidence building is in the past. BF has had plenty of
success at AAA. His defense, from what I've seen, is better than JM or DD.
If you're concerned about the player's psyche, consider another trip to AAA.

> but we have another problem when shoo is eligible to come off the DL -
> a nice problem, since he'd be a cheaper alternative to delucci should
> we retain a platoon in LF.
>
I don't see him as much more than a decent defensive OF with little power
and the potential to hit .280 or so. Is he another Ichiro ??

>>Pretend that Marte is not a bust ?
> the fact he did so well at a young age is awfully significant
> predictor of ML success. unless the guy is really 28 or something, he
> warrants a liittle more slack, especially since we've got nobody else
> who can play 3B next year.
>
Peralta can play 3rd, but hoping for that to happen is probably like
gambling on hitting an inside straight.
Not real likely, and not that great of a hand anyway.
The problem is his defense. I mean, talk about an elephant in the room.....
>
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:05:32 -0400, "Steve" <steveoneill.TakeThisOut@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"barry" <toisan_boy.TakeThisOut@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:pnoiu35prnb8bf4207snj2br0koai61d8u@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:06:48 -0400, "Steve" <steveoneill.TakeThisOut@alltel.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> unless we can prove that delucci can't get healthy, shapiro's made
>> enough good decisions IMO to warrant giving delucci the shot under
>> normal conditions. shapiro made the platoon work with broussard &
>> perez a few years ago, struck gold actually, since we were able to
>> acquire asdrubal cabrera by trading broussard (or was it perez - they
>> both ended up in seattle).
>>
>A problem with platooning is that a roster spot is occupied by two players.
>I do not see the sum of those two equalling what Francisco would bring
>to the lineup. The time to win is rapidly approaching, and JM and DD's
>production has never empirically proven that this particular platoon system
>is a good one.

didn't you just less than a month ago express support for the platoon?
as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice sounds
more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.

i'm sure i posted the numbers sometime in the past. if healthy, we
should expect about .280, 15-20 HRs & 80 RBIs.

i remember getting a lot of scoffing when i predicted .260, 20 HRs &
80 RBIs for the broussard perez platoon over 600 ABs. they combined
for .316, 21 HRs & 68 RBIs in only 367 ABs. before they were traded to
seattle. add in their seattle numbers, they hit 30 HRs w/ 94 RBIs.

the success of *that* platoon suggests that we should give the JM/DD
platoon a chance.

>> then again., francisco *is* good enough to play and he actually hits
>> RHP better than LHP, so i think we want delucci to do well to make it
>> easier to move him. but i wouldn't start BF full time, i'd still give
>> *most* of the ABs against LHP to michaels, and pick spots where BF can
>> be successful against certain LHP and build his confidence.
>>
>The time for confidence building is in the past. BF has had plenty of
>success at AAA. His defense, from what I've seen, is better than JM or DD.
>If you're concerned about the player's psyche, consider another trip to AAA.

i would say that BF has more potential upside, but he's not a finished
product, especially defensively. JM & DD"s split stats are
accumulations of seasons of play - known quantities. while BF has more
potential upside, he also has more potential downside in terms of
being unproven over a whole season. when you're making a playoff run,
the fewer question marks the better; we're already betting a lot on FG
handling everyday duties in RF. i'd rather have BF as a fallback if
FG inexplicably falters.

>> but we have another problem when shoo is eligible to come off the DL -
>> a nice problem, since he'd be a cheaper alternative to delucci should
>> we retain a platoon in LF.
>>
>I don't see him as much more than a decent defensive OF with little power
>and the potential to hit .280 or so. Is he another Ichiro ??

no, but he's hasn't proven that he's no more than a platoon player at
this point, he has yet to prove he can hit LHP on a regular basis.if
we can find the space on the roster, i could see wedge playing shoo in
RF against certain RH pitchers if FG shows problems.

>>>Pretend that Marte is not a bust ?
>> the fact he did so well at a young age is awfully significant
>> predictor of ML success. unless the guy is really 28 or something, he
>> warrants a liittle more slack, especially since we've got nobody else
>> who can play 3B next year.
>>
>Peralta can play 3rd, but hoping for that to happen is probably like
>gambling on hitting an inside straight.
>Not real likely, and not that great of a hand anyway.
>The problem is his defense. I mean, talk about an elephant in the room.....

i've never been a fan of peralta, but vizquel is an awfully tough guy
to follow in the field. still, as a SS he's adequate defensively but
he's a bonus because of what he contributes offensively. he & martinez
allow us to get away without mongo production from our corners,
infield and outfield and significantly, support wedge's 1-9
philosophy.

i once advocated moving peralta to third, but the problem is that he's
lower half of the pack offensively compared to other ML 3Bs. still, if
barfield regains his stroke, i'd love to see him pair with cabrera at
SS to form a duo we could watch for the next decade, in which case
we'd either move peralta to 3B or include him in a package for a 3B
if marte never does make it.

same thing for the people who want to see martinez move to 1B -
moreover, the pitching staff respects martinez' ability to call a
game.



--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

"barry" <toisan_boy.TakeThisOut@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:atjju31bsdj8t6ctu5i74r83s15kdjn46a@4ax.com...
>
> didn't you just less than a month ago express support for the platoon?
> as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice sounds
> more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.
>
I supported it until I came to believe that they have a better option.
It worked well at 1B a few years ago, no doubt.
Now they have BF, IMHO, a better option than an erratic JM, and a not real
productive DD.
My logic changes based upon cominations of empirical evidence and an
occasional adult beverage.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

barry <toisan_boy DeleteThis @nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice sounds
> more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.
>
>
Do not fall in love with me barry, I don't do yellow people.

--
http://NewsReader.Com/
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:10:21 -0400, "Steve" <steveoneill.RemoveThis@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"barry" <toisan_boy.RemoveThis@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:atjju31bsdj8t6ctu5i74r83s15kdjn46a@4ax.com...
>>
>> didn't you just less than a month ago express support for the platoon?
>> as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice sounds
>> more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.
>>
>I supported it until I came to believe that they have a better option.
>It worked well at 1B a few years ago, no doubt.
>Now they have BF, IMHO, a better option than an erratic JM, and a not real
>productive DD.
>My logic changes based upon cominations of empirical evidence and an
>occasional adult beverage.
>>
>

<LOL>

--------
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 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

On 27 Mar 2008 03:33:15 GMT, Steve <moparholic.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>barry <toisan_boy.RemoveThis@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice sounds
>> more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.
>>
>>
>Do not fall in love with me barry, I don't do yellow people.

no surprise there - no coward would have the stomach for it.

but no matter what, the reason will be because *they* won't do *you*.

--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al... 

barry <toisan_boy.TakeThisOut@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2008 03:33:15 GMT, Steve <moparholic.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >barry <toisan_boy.TakeThisOut@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> as much as i hate to say it, the quality of the logic you voice
> >>> sounds
> >> more like rehashed steveo (il)logic.
> >>
> >>
> >Do not fall in love with me barry, I don't do yellow people.
>
> no surprise there - no coward would have the stomach for it.
>
>
Sorry to disappoint you, perhaps you'll stop humping my leg now.
>
> but no matter what, the reason will be because *they* won't do *you*.
>
That took a week? I'll add you to the bozo bin now, toi-boi.
 >> Stay informed about: Delucci, Marte, et al...