DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an..

I was at the game Wednesday. I knew something was up when Leyland pinched
hit a rookie for Young. Runners on 1st and second and the rookie laid down a
great bunt. Doubt Dimitri could do that.

I would imagine that DY had to do something to get the Tigers to cut his
ass. I suspect he didn't hustle or had a relapse.
"Simpledog" <simpledog RemoveThis @verizon.not> wrote in message
news:zYLLg.3450$m36.739@trnddc02...
> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

On 7 Sep 2006 14:55:40 -0700, kingdomsofa RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:

>
>> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>
>I've read the earlier thread about the pros and cons of Dmitri's
>release and was surprised to see no discussion of the impact on team
>morale.
>
>The guarded comments so far make it clear that Dmitri's team mates are
>uncomfortable with what happened and how it happened. Whatever the
>real reasons for Dmitri's release, I can't help wondering if those
>reasons justified the risk of destroying team morale on the eve of a
>crucial road series against the team that is breathing down their neck.

Since we don't know the reason what's to say that his release
didn't/won't have a positive effect on team morale.
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net wrote:
> On 7 Sep 2006 14:55:40 -0700, kingdomsofa.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>> I've read the earlier thread about the pros and cons of Dmitri's
>> release and was surprised to see no discussion of the impact on team
>> morale.
>>
>> The guarded comments so far make it clear that Dmitri's team mates are
>> uncomfortable with what happened and how it happened. Whatever the
>> real reasons for Dmitri's release, I can't help wondering if those
>> reasons justified the risk of destroying team morale on the eve of a
>> crucial road series against the team that is breathing down their neck.
>
> Since we don't know the reason what's to say that his release
> didn't/won't have a positive effect on team morale.

The fact that it has already clearly negatively effected team morale.

Whether or not it was good for the team is up in the air at this point.
I think it wasn't, as his performance was better than his replacement's.

The effect on team morale has already been made clear though.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

"Thomas" <wharry DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edq7nr$8ok$3@news04.infoave.net...
> xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net wrote:
>> On 7 Sep 2006 14:55:40 -0700, kingdomsofa DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>>> I've read the earlier thread about the pros and cons of Dmitri's
>>> release and was surprised to see no discussion of the impact on team
>>> morale.
>>>
>>> The guarded comments so far make it clear that Dmitri's team mates are
>>> uncomfortable with what happened and how it happened. Whatever the
>>> real reasons for Dmitri's release, I can't help wondering if those
>>> reasons justified the risk of destroying team morale on the eve of a
>>> crucial road series against the team that is breathing down their neck.
>>
>> Since we don't know the reason what's to say that his release
>> didn't/won't have a positive effect on team morale.
>
> The fact that it has already clearly negatively effected team morale.


Really?? When did that become clear? When Granderson hit the leadoff home
run in the next game? When Thames hit the second inning home run?? The
thought has occurred to me that maybe there was a message in this
"performance related" release.



--
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>
> Whether or not it was good for the team is up in the air at this point. I
> think it wasn't, as his performance was better than his replacement's.
>
> The effect on team morale has already been made clear though.
>
> -Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

Bill Kawalec wrote:
> "Thomas" <wharry.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:edq7nr$8ok$3@news04.infoave.net...
>> xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>> On 7 Sep 2006 14:55:40 -0700, kingdomsofa.DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>>>> I've read the earlier thread about the pros and cons of Dmitri's
>>>> release and was surprised to see no discussion of the impact on team
>>>> morale.
>>>>
>>>> The guarded comments so far make it clear that Dmitri's team mates are
>>>> uncomfortable with what happened and how it happened. Whatever the
>>>> real reasons for Dmitri's release, I can't help wondering if those
>>>> reasons justified the risk of destroying team morale on the eve of a
>>>> crucial road series against the team that is breathing down their neck.
>>> Since we don't know the reason what's to say that his release
>>> didn't/won't have a positive effect on team morale.
>> The fact that it has already clearly negatively effected team morale.
>
>
> Really?? When did that become clear?

In the interviews after it happened.

> When Granderson hit the leadoff home
> run in the next game? When Thames hit the second inning home run??

Players have strong performances the day their parents die. Ted Lilly, I
think it was, had a college teammate die in that Lexington plane crash a
week or two ago and played a good game. The Phillies lost their best
player and have been playing very well since then.

Sometimes players play well despite adversity. Playing well isn't
synonymous with good morale and vice versa.

You're grasping at straws, bud.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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"Thomas" <wharry.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edqh8m$k64$1@news04.infoave.net...
> Bill Kawalec wrote:
>> "Thomas" <wharry.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:edq7nr$8ok$3@news04.infoave.net...
>>> xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>> On 7 Sep 2006 14:55:40 -0700, kingdomsofa.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260906106
>>>>> I've read the earlier thread about the pros and cons of Dmitri's
>>>>> release and was surprised to see no discussion of the impact on team
>>>>> morale.
>>>>>
>>>>> The guarded comments so far make it clear that Dmitri's team mates are
>>>>> uncomfortable with what happened and how it happened. Whatever the
>>>>> real reasons for Dmitri's release, I can't help wondering if those
>>>>> reasons justified the risk of destroying team morale on the eve of a
>>>>> crucial road series against the team that is breathing down their
>>>>> neck.
>>>> Since we don't know the reason what's to say that his release
>>>> didn't/won't have a positive effect on team morale.
>>> The fact that it has already clearly negatively effected team morale.
>>
>>
>> Really?? When did that become clear?
>
> In the interviews after it happened.
>
>> When Granderson hit the leadoff home run in the next game? When Thames
>> hit the second inning home run??
>
> Players have strong performances the day their parents die. Ted Lilly, I
> think it was, had a college teammate die in that Lexington plane crash a
> week or two ago and played a good game. The Phillies lost their best
> player and have been playing very well since then.
>
> Sometimes players play well despite adversity. Playing well isn't
> synonymous with good morale and vice versa.
>
> You're grasping at straws, bud.
>
> -Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

Bill Kawalec wrote:
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>

A fitting response, I suppose. If you've got no point, then say nothing
in response.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

oy
speaking of no point, you attempted to compare personal tragedies with a
business decision of cutting a paid major league ballplayer off a roster, a
situation which we, realistically, know nothing about. IF, as was being
rumbled about in some media outlets this morning, it was precipitated by
some unhappiness with having been pinch hit for, then it was a message to
the rest of the team. IF it was, as the management repeatedly said,
"performance related," then it also COULD be a message to the team. IF moral
would have been a problem, it would have shown itself tonight. Seven strong
innings from Verlander, four HRs for four different players, golly, I just
didn't see it! Nope! I didn't see a bunch of guys acting as if they were at
a funeral. I saw guys determined to maintain their place out in front, as
they did before the second comong of DY.

You forgot, by the way, to bring up one of the most incredible performances
I have ever seen, being Bret Favre on the day after his father died. It's
just as relevant, meaning not one damn bit . . .






--
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--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Thomas" <wharry RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edqllu$onp$1@news04.infoave.net...
> Bill Kawalec wrote:
>> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>>
>
> A fitting response, I suppose. If you've got no point, then say nothing in
> response.
>
> -Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

Bill Kawalec wrote:
> oy
> speaking of no point, you attempted to compare personal tragedies with a
> business decision of cutting a paid major league ballplayer off a roster,

No, I am equating two events that have negative effects on morale and
their effect on player performance.

> a
> situation which we, realistically, know nothing about.

We know plenty about it.

> IF, as was being
> rumbled about in some media outlets this morning, it was precipitated by
> some unhappiness with having been pinch hit for, then it was a message to
> the rest of the team.

Yeah, that message being "we don't care about creating a positive
clubhouse, we don't want these issues handled by the team as a whole,
we're just going to make brash decisions that could gut the morale of
the team at any moment. Deal with it."

Great message.

> IF it was, as the management repeatedly said,
> "performance related," then it also COULD be a message to the team.

And what would that message be? Young was cut for performance issues,
despite his replacement performing nowhere near as well and half the
team being below Young's mark.

You think THAT is a positive for morale?

What do you think would have happened if the Pistons had cut Chauncey
Billups for "performance-related issues"? Do you think that Lindsey
Hunter and Antonio McDyess would have been happy and confident after
seeing someone performing much better than them cut because they were
underperforming?

Do you even think before you post this nonsense?

> IF moral
> would have been a problem, it would have shown itself tonight.

It showed itself last night, bud.

> Seven strong
> innings from Verlander, four HRs for four different players, golly, I just
> didn't see it!

Of course you didn't. You seem to think that morale = performance.

Let me guess, you've never had any sort of leadership position or even
leadership training, have you?

> Nope! I didn't see a bunch of guys acting as if they were at
> a funeral. I saw guys determined to maintain their place out in front, as
> they did before the second comong of DY.

Determined to maintain their position does not mean their morale didn't
take a hit last night.

>
> You forgot, by the way, to bring up one of the most incredible performances
> I have ever seen, being Bret Favre on the day after his father died. It's
> just as relevant, meaning not one damn bit . . .

Favre played well when his morale was low.

It's COMPLETELY relevant, dumbass.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

"Thomas" <wharry DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edqscq$vfm$1@news04.infoave.net...
> Bill Kawalec wrote:
>> oy
>> speaking of no point, you attempted to compare personal tragedies with a
>> business decision of cutting a paid major league ballplayer off a roster,
>
> No, I am equating two events that have negative effects on morale and
> their effect on player performance.
>
>> a situation which we, realistically, know nothing about.
>
> We know plenty about it.
>
>> IF, as was being rumbled about in some media outlets this morning, it was
>> precipitated by some unhappiness with having been pinch hit for, then it
>> was a message to the rest of the team.
>
> Yeah, that message being "we don't care about creating a positive
> clubhouse, we don't want these issues handled by the team as a whole,
> we're just going to make brash decisions that could gut the morale of the
> team at any moment. Deal with it."
>
> Great message.
>
>> IF it was, as the management repeatedly said, "performance related," then
>> it also COULD be a message to the team.
>
> And what would that message be? Young was cut for performance issues,
> despite his replacement performing nowhere near as well and half the team
> being below Young's mark.
>
> You think THAT is a positive for morale?
>
> What do you think would have happened if the Pistons had cut Chauncey
> Billups for "performance-related issues"? Do you think that Lindsey Hunter
> and Antonio McDyess would have been happy and confident after seeing
> someone performing much better than them cut because they were
> underperforming?
>
> Do you even think before you post this nonsense?
>
>> IF moral would have been a problem, it would have shown itself tonight.
>
> It showed itself last night, bud.
>
>> Seven strong innings from Verlander, four HRs for four different players,
>> golly, I just didn't see it!
>
> Of course you didn't. You seem to think that morale = performance.




if it doesn't, I don't give a rat's ass, AND, why even make it an issueif it
doesn't??





--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!



>
> Let me guess, you've never had any sort of leadership position or even
> leadership training, have you?
>
>> Nope! I didn't see a bunch of guys acting as if they were at a funeral. I
>> saw guys determined to maintain their place out in front, as they did
>> before the second comong of DY.
>
> Determined to maintain their position does not mean their morale didn't
> take a hit last night.
>
>>
>> You forgot, by the way, to bring up one of the most incredible
>> performances I have ever seen, being Bret Favre on the day after his
>> father died. It's just as relevant, meaning not one damn bit . . .
>
> Favre played well when his morale was low.
>
> It's COMPLETELY relevant, dumbass.
>
> -Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/SPORTS02/609080469



"It sounds cold-hearted, but the Tigers aren't Mother Teresa. They shouldn't
have to extend a kind hand while scrambling to retain the consistency of the
season's first two-thirds.

If you can't step up, then step out.

Young is out. Thames is in.

"It looks like I'm going to be getting more of a chance, and that's great,"
said Thames who cracked his team-high 25th home run."





Yeah, sounds like one real big-time ""morale problem.""







--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

Thomas wrote:
> > IF, as was being
> > rumbled about in some media outlets this morning, it was precipitated by
> > some unhappiness with having been pinch hit for, then it was a message to
> > the rest of the team.
>
> Yeah, that message being "we don't care about creating a positive
> clubhouse, we don't want these issues handled by the team as a whole,
> we're just going to make brash decisions that could gut the morale of
> the team at any moment. Deal with it."
>
> Great message.

I normally think the BK Lounge is a looney-tune, but I must say Thomas,
I have no idea where you are coming from. Under what set of facts do
you/did you see or hear or feel or envision this 'message' you
contrived above being any part of reality? BK is dead on this time.
Sorry to say.
SC
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an.. 

"Thomas" <wharry RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edqscq$vfm$1@news04.infoave.net...
> Bill Kawalec wrote:
>> oy
>> speaking of no point, you attempted to compare personal tragedies with a
>> business decision of cutting a paid major league ballplayer off a roster,
>
> No, I am equating two events that have negative effects on morale and
> their effect on player performance.
>
>> a situation which we, realistically, know nothing about.
>
> We know plenty about it.
>
>> IF, as was being rumbled about in some media outlets this morning, it was
>> precipitated by some unhappiness with having been pinch hit for, then it
>> was a message to the rest of the team.
>
> Yeah, that message being "we don't care about creating a positive
> clubhouse, we don't want these issues handled by the team as a whole,
> we're just going to make brash decisions that could gut the morale of the
> team at any moment. Deal with it."
>
> Great message.
>
>> IF it was, as the management repeatedly said, "performance related," then
>> it also COULD be a message to the team.
>
> And what would that message be? Young was cut for performance issues,
> despite his replacement performing nowhere near as well and half the team
> being below Young's mark.
>
> You think THAT is a positive for morale?
>
> What do you think would have happened if the Pistons had cut Chauncey
> Billups for "performance-related issues"? Do you think that Lindsey Hunter
> and Antonio McDyess would have been happy and confident after seeing
> someone performing much better than them cut because they were
> underperforming?
>
> Do you even think before you post this nonsense?
>
>> IF moral would have been a problem, it would have shown itself tonight.
>
> It showed itself last night, bud.
>
>> Seven strong innings from Verlander, four HRs for four different players,
>> golly, I just didn't see it!
>
> Of course you didn't. You seem to think that morale = performance.
>
> Let me guess, you've never had any sort of leadership position or even
> leadership training, have you?
>
>> Nope! I didn't see a bunch of guys acting as if they were at a funeral. I
>> saw guys determined to maintain their place out in front, as they did
>> before the second comong of DY.
>
> Determined to maintain their position does not mean their morale didn't
> take a hit last night.
>


I will just say this. If losing Young affects this team in a bad way, they
don't deserve to go anywhere. I mean, this is Young, not Al Kaline.
Geeze...
 >> Stay informed about: DETROIT (AP) - The Detroit Tigers' clubhouse was somber an..