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Since: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 228
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:14 pm
Post subject: Comical
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>cinci-reds (more info?)
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I watched that garbage for six hours. Simultaneously the MLB package on TV
and the internet radio feed, both shut down.
The very last thing that I saw and heard was Votto booting the ground ball.
Volquez throws 94 pitches Friday night, and then Dusty brings him back to
pitch today (32 pitches). It blows the mind.
Package this game as a training film. Dusty's six-hour course on
mismanagement. Gross mismanagement. |
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Since: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 66
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bob Braun" <oxinfla RemoveThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in
news:epSdneXeGsVFgafVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@comcast.com:
> Volquez throws 94 pitches Friday night, and then Dusty brings him back
> to pitch today (32 pitches). It blows the mind.
Well, I'll give Dusty Baker the blame for a lot of things (a LOT of
things), but given the situation tonight what should he have done? He was
especially in a pickle with a guy like Belisle starting who's only pitched
past the 5th inning once this season, which didn't help matters.
Once the bullpen is depleted and you have to go to the starters or use a
position player what would you have had him do instead? You almost have to
use guys like Harang and Volquez who are a couple days removed from their
last start and still a few days away from their next start. Honestly, 94
pitches isn't that extreme of a start so I don't really think tonight was a
case of overusing Volquez. It's not an ideal situation, to be sure, but
it's also an unusual situation. Harang's a durable workhorse so no
problems with him going, and then after him I think the next logical guy is
Volquez. Cueto starts Tuesday and Arroyo just pitched yesterday. I really
can't place blame on Baker for using Volquez, and honestly if not for
Votto's throwing error Volquez would've gotten out of the inning with no
problems.
Nah, I don't think Dusty bringing in Volquez was a terrible thing. There's
a thousand other things I would take issue with before this decision. The
most immediate thing that comes to mind is using Cordero on Saturday night
in a non-save situation. That certainly might've bit the Reds in the ass
on Sunday. Keeping Corey Patterson in the lineup despite being 0-5 then 0-
6, 0-7, etc, but swapping out Dunn who was 2-4 with a walk, 2 RBIs and a
HR? Yeah, stupid. But using Volquez? Can't really bust the guy's balls
for that. |
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Since: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 228
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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--
"Tuff Gong" <no.spam.TakeThisOut@mymail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9AAA176C1F018nospammymailcom@216.196.97.142...
> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla.TakeThisOut@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in
> news:epSdneXeGsVFgafVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> Volquez throws 94 pitches Friday night, and then Dusty brings him back
>> to pitch today (32 pitches). It blows the mind.
>
> Well, I'll give Dusty Baker the blame for a lot of things (a LOT of
> things), but given the situation tonight what should he have done? He was
> especially in a pickle with a guy like Belisle starting who's only pitched
> past the 5th inning once this season, which didn't help matters.
>
> Once the bullpen is depleted and you have to go to the starters or use a
> position player what would you have had him do instead? You almost have
> to
> use guys like Harang and Volquez who are a couple days removed from their
> last start and still a few days away from their next start. Honestly, 94
> pitches isn't that extreme of a start so I don't really think tonight was
> a
> case of overusing Volquez. It's not an ideal situation, to be sure, but
> it's also an unusual situation. Harang's a durable workhorse so no
> problems with him going, and then after him I think the next logical guy
> is
> Volquez. Cueto starts Tuesday and Arroyo just pitched yesterday. I
> really
> can't place blame on Baker for using Volquez, and honestly if not for
> Votto's throwing error Volquez would've gotten out of the inning with no
> problems.
>
> Nah, I don't think Dusty bringing in Volquez was a terrible thing.
> There's
> a thousand other things I would take issue with before this decision. The
> most immediate thing that comes to mind is using Cordero on Saturday night
> in a non-save situation. That certainly might've bit the Reds in the ass
> on Sunday. Keeping Corey Patterson in the lineup despite being 0-5 then
> 0-
> 6, 0-7, etc, but swapping out Dunn who was 2-4 with a walk, 2 RBIs and a
> HR? Yeah, stupid. But using Volquez? Can't really bust the guy's balls
> for that.
If he had lifted Belisle in the 4th with the bases loaded, it could have
been a different outcome.
Baker threw Josh Fogg 2/3 of an inning. I think bringing the prize mule
back on less than 48 hours rest was foolish. What about having Bako hit,
using his last position player, then allowing Ross to return to the field to
continue catching? He couldn't even use a position player to pitch unless
he was to keep Volquez in the field somewhere.
What did I want him to do? I would have pitched a position player before
bringing on Volquez.
I'm not blaming Dusty Baker for this team's record. This team was poorly
assembled and doomed from day one. But I do blame him for throwing that
young starter on such short rest. >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Jan 26, 2008
Posts: 132
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:29 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:19:54 -0400, "Bob Braun"
<oxinfla.TakeThisOut@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>What did I want him to do? I would have pitched a position player before
>bringing on Volquez.
I was thinking the same thing. Was Freel still in the game?
********************************************************************
Kevin McClave
"Courage, the footstool of the Virtues, upon
which they stand." ~Robert Louis Stevenson
******************************************************************** >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Jan 26, 2008
Posts: 132
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:30 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:19:54 -0400, "Bob Braun"
<oxinfla.RemoveThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>I'm not blaming Dusty Baker for this team's record. This team was poorly
>assembled and doomed from day one. But I do blame him for throwing that
>young starter on such short rest.
Hey! Dusty wouldn't dream of threatening a young pitcher's future!
********************************************************************
Kevin McClave
"Courage, the footstool of the Virtues, upon
which they stand." ~Robert Louis Stevenson
******************************************************************** >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 228
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:39 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Kevin McClave" <kmcclaveSPAM DIES RemoveThis @HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:toll34pnefh1hofi0j3gk50kuone6kfiag@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:19:54 -0400, "Bob Braun"
> <oxinfla RemoveThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>
>>What did I want him to do? I would have pitched a position player before
>>bringing on Volquez.
>
> I was thinking the same thing. Was Freel still in the game?
>
Left field. And yeah, he would have been my first choice. Harang was
mowing them down. He must have told them he was finished.
Using Volquez on short rest alarmed me. But that catching thing is beyond
belief. When he used his last position player (Bako), I thought yeah, it's
time to get David Ross out of there. Then he sends him back out there in
the 18th inning! >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 228
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Kevin McClave" <kmcclaveSPAM DIES.DeleteThis@HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:frll34lj6mtl1p19uqhinp8d3j74qo13ij@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:19:54 -0400, "Bob Braun"
> <oxinfla.DeleteThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm not blaming Dusty Baker for this team's record. This team was poorly
>>assembled and doomed from day one. But I do blame him for throwing that
>>young starter on such short rest.
>
> Hey! Dusty wouldn't dream of threatening a young pitcher's future!
>
His guy Corey was hitting like a pitcher, give him a shot! >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 66
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bob Braun" <oxinfla.RemoveThis@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in
news:xaOdnZAcHpYGRKfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com:
> Using Volquez on short rest alarmed me. But that catching thing is
> beyond belief. When he used his last position player (Bako), I
> thought yeah, it's time to get David Ross out of there. Then he sends
> him back out there in the 18th inning!
Ross didn't even catch the longest game for a catcher this season. In the
Padres/Rockies 22-inning marathon *both* starting catchers that night went
the distance, catching all 22 innings. Josh Bard and Yorvit Torrealba
laugh at David Ross's puny 18 innings! >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 228
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Tuff Gong" <no.spam DeleteThis @mymail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9AABAFA3D38nospammymailcom@216.196.97.142...
> "Bob Braun" <oxinfla DeleteThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote in
> news:xaOdnZAcHpYGRKfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> Using Volquez on short rest alarmed me. But that catching thing is
>> beyond belief. When he used his last position player (Bako), I
>> thought yeah, it's time to get David Ross out of there. Then he sends
>> him back out there in the 18th inning!
>
> Ross didn't even catch the longest game for a catcher this season. In the
> Padres/Rockies 22-inning marathon *both* starting catchers that night went
> the distance, catching all 22 innings. Josh Bard and Yorvit Torrealba
> laugh at David Ross's puny 18 innings!
I hope they gave him some leg room on the flight home. >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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Since: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 432
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Comical [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 26 May 2008 11:19:54 -0400, "Bob Braun"
<oxinfla RemoveThis @hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
>Baker threw Josh Fogg 2/3 of an inning.
This was the dumbest part to me, and the mistake that led to the mess
and excessive risks to our future.
Why did Fogg pitch before Bray?
Fogg is there for mopup and long relief. Bray can theoretically get
a few people out. If he would have pitched Bray first, we had a shot
at the save. And then if Bray blows it, you can put Fogg out there to
finish until his arm falls off with no other repercussions.
Though with Fogg, I'd guess the game wouldn't have lasted 18.
Another troubling aspect to me is that they seem to be planning on
just monkeying around with everyone's rest instead of bringing up
somebody for a spot start, or just conceding a loss and letting Fogg
throw one.
Arroyo is going to come up on short rest just when he looks like he
may be improving, so not only do they screw up AH and EV, but have to
risk BA as well. >> Stay informed about: Comical |
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