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Next: you heard it here first ....
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External
Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:18 pm
Post subject: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>sea-mariners (more info?)
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In a previous thread Charles said:
"Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did you
bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to that
effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either simply
contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
yapping about"
I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some guys
below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey and
Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey adn Edgar
shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a much less
hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
Randy |
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External
Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> In a previous thread Charles said:
>
> "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
> 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did
you
> bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to that
> effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either simply
> contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
> yapping about"
>
> I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
> hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some guys
> below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
>
> Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
>
> From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey and
> Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey adn
Edgar
> shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a much less
> hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
>
> Randy
Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was *the*
best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the '90s. If
you're one of the best hitters over a whole decade, you're going to merit
some HOF consideration. He's also ranked 34th all time in career RCAA,
ahead of (for now) Manny, Palmeiro, Griffey, Sheffield, and Thome among
active players and ahead of Reggie Jackson, Willie Stargell, Hank Greenberg,
Carl Yastrzemski, George Brett among Hall of Famers. |
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External
Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nikko" <nothanks.RemoveThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
news:pv8Sc.16455$9Y6.15416@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > In a previous thread Charles said:
> >
> > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
> > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did
> you
> > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to
that
> > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either
simply
> > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
> > yapping about"
> >
> > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
> > hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some
guys
> > below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
> >
> > Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> > Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> > Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> > Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> > Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> > Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> > Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> > Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
> >
> > From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey and
> > Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey adn
> Edgar
> > shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a much
less
> > hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
> >
> > Randy
>
>
> Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was *the*
> best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the '90s. If
> you're one of the best hitters over a whole decade, you're going to merit
> some HOF consideration.
Edgar was clearly one of the best 15 hitters of the 1990's (behind Gwynn,
Thomas, Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Ramirez, and Belle). Dale Murphy was
clearly one of the best of the 1980's and Murphy was fantastic defensively,
Murphy is not a HoFer and Belle was clearly one of the top 10 hitters of the
1990's and won't be a HoFer. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> In a previous thread Charles said:
>
> "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
> 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did
you
> bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to that
> effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either simply
> contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
> yapping about"
>
> I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
> hitter of the 90's.
Mike Scioscia: "Edgar's a Hall of Fame-caliber hitter. If you asked
managers to name the top 5 hitters over the last ten years, he'd be on every
list."
Dusty Baker: "Edgar Martinez is a professional, quiet, humble giant. He's
one of best right-handed hitters ever seen." >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nikko" <nothanks RemoveThis @yourmomma.com> wrote in message
news:pv8Sc.16455$9Y6.15416@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > In a previous thread Charles said:
> >
> > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
> > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did
> you
> > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to
that
> > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either
simply
> > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
> > yapping about"
> >
> > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
> > hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some
guys
> > below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
> >
> > Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> > Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> > Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> > Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> > Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> > Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> > Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> > Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
> >
> > From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey and
> > Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey adn
> Edgar
> > shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a much
less
> > hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
> >
> > Randy
>
>
> Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was *the*
> best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the '90s.
Charles was implying or referring to me essentially as an idiot for not
recognizing Edgar as the best AL hitter of the 1990s. That is why it is
important to me that it is recognized that Edgar was not the best AL hitter
of the 90's. Moreover, Charles claimed to have several baseball experts
that said Edgar was AL hitter of the 90's.
Randy >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nikko" <nothanks.TakeThisOut@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
news:mf9Sc.16579$9Y6.7616@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > In a previous thread Charles said:
> >
> > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of the
> > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell did
> you
> > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to
that
> > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either
simply
> > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you are
> > yapping about"
> >
> > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best AL
> > hitter of the 90's.
>
> Mike Scioscia: "Edgar's a Hall of Fame-caliber hitter. If you asked
> managers to name the top 5 hitters over the last ten years, he'd be on
every
> list."
>
> Dusty Baker: "Edgar Martinez is a professional, quiet, humble giant. He's
> one of best right-handed hitters ever seen."
Neither of them referred to Edgar as the best hitter. Dusty would have only
seen Edgar play 3 times during the regular season so his testimony is funny. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i%8Sc.4659$EC2.3979@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Nikko" <nothanks.DeleteThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> news:pv8Sc.16455$9Y6.15416@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > In a previous thread Charles said:
> > >
> > > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of
the
> > > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell
did
> > you
> > > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to
> that
> > > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either
> simply
> > > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you
are
> > > yapping about"
> > >
> > > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best
AL
> > > hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some
> guys
> > > below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
> > >
> > > Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> > > Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> > > Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> > > Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> > > Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> > > Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> > > Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> > > Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
> > >
> > > From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey and
> > > Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey adn
> > Edgar
> > > shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a much
> less
> > > hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
> > >
> > > Randy
> >
> >
> > Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was
*the*
> > best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the '90s.
If
> > you're one of the best hitters over a whole decade, you're going to
merit
> > some HOF consideration.
>
> Edgar was clearly one of the best 15 hitters of the 1990's (behind Gwynn,
> Thomas, Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Ramirez, and Belle). Dale Murphy was
> clearly one of the best of the 1980's and Murphy was fantastic
defensively,
> Murphy is not a HoFer and Belle was clearly one of the top 10 hitters of
the
> 1990's and won't be a HoFer.
I don't know what Belle's chances are, but after looking up Murphy's stats,
there is no comparison between him and Edgar. In the same number of
seasons, Murphy hit about 90 HR more than Edgar has, but Edgar has hit 160
more doubles. Murphy hit .300 exactly twice over a full season: one year
at .300 and another at .302. Edgar has done it 10 times.
Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging percentage and
OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are .312/.420/.518/.938 It's
not even close. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nikko" <nothanks RemoveThis @yourmomma.com> wrote in message
news:vx9Sc.17171$cK.1794@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i%8Sc.4659$EC2.3979@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Nikko" <nothanks RemoveThis @yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> > news:pv8Sc.16455$9Y6.15416@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > In a previous thread Charles said:
> > > >
> > > > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of
> the
> > > > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game). Hell
> did
> > > you
> > > > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements to
> > that
> > > > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are either
> > simply
> > > > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what you
> are
> > > > yapping about"
> > > >
> > > > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best
> AL
> > > > hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for some
> > guys
> > > > below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
> > > >
> > > > Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> > > > Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> > > > Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> > > > Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> > > > Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> > > > Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> > > > Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> > > > Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
> > > >
> > > > From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey
and
> > > > Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey
adn
> > > Edgar
> > > > shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a
much
> > less
> > > > hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
> > > >
> > > > Randy
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was
> *the*
> > > best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the '90s.
> If
> > > you're one of the best hitters over a whole decade, you're going to
> merit
> > > some HOF consideration.
> >
> > Edgar was clearly one of the best 15 hitters of the 1990's (behind
Gwynn,
> > Thomas, Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Ramirez, and Belle). Dale Murphy was
> > clearly one of the best of the 1980's and Murphy was fantastic
> defensively,
> > Murphy is not a HoFer and Belle was clearly one of the top 10 hitters of
> the
> > 1990's and won't be a HoFer.
>
> I don't know what Belle's chances are, but after looking up Murphy's
stats,
> there is no comparison between him and Edgar. In the same number of
> seasons, Murphy hit about 90 HR more than Edgar has, but Edgar has hit 160
> more doubles. Murphy hit .300 exactly twice over a full season: one year
> at .300 and another at .302. Edgar has done it 10 times.
>
> Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging percentage and
> OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are .312/.420/.518/.938
It's
> not even close.
You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won 2 MVPs
and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by pitchers.
Comparing absolute numbers from the 90's to 80's is a ludicrous comparison.
Murphy won 2 MVPs and had an OPS relative to his league that was about as
high as Edgar's in the 90's.
Edgar had more than 150 home runs than the best hitters of the naughts or
teens... for that matter Ellis Burks looks good compared to them.
Randy >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 70
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:RE9Sc.4960
> "Nikko" <nothanks.RemoveThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
[snip]
> > Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging percentage
and
> > OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are .312/.420/.518/.938
> It's
> > not even close.
>
> You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won 2 MVPs
> and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by
pitchers.
>
> Comparing absolute numbers from the 90's to 80's is a ludicrous
comparison.
> Murphy won 2 MVPs and had an OPS relative to his league that was about as
> high as Edgar's in the 90's.
>
> Edgar had more than 150 home runs than the best hitters of the naughts or
> teens... for that matter Ellis Burks looks good compared to them.
Edgar's OPS relative to league for his career is 151 (100 being league OPS).
Murphy over his career was 121. I agree, it's not even close. Murphy had
some tremendous years, but the Albert Belle argument was a better one than
Murphy.
Michael >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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External
Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RE9Sc.4960$qM2.2138@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> "Nikko" <nothanks.DeleteThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> news:vx9Sc.17171$cK.1794@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:i%8Sc.4659$EC2.3979@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Nikko" <nothanks.DeleteThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> > > news:pv8Sc.16455$9Y6.15416@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:x23Sc.4485$GN.1711@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > In a previous thread Charles said:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most
of
> > the
> > > > > 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game).
Hell
> > did
> > > > you
> > > > > bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad statements
to
> > > that
> > > > > effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are asking you are
either
> > > simply
> > > > > contrary for the sake of being contrary or just don't know what
you
> > are
> > > > > yapping about"
> > > > >
> > > > > I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the
best
> > AL
> > > > > hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for
some
> > > guys
> > > > > below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL 1990's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas 1013 OPS ... 1040 RBI ... 301 hrs ... 968 r
> > > > > Griffey: .965 OPS ... 1,091 RBIs ... 382 hrs ... 1,002 r
> > > > > Belle: .957 OPS ... 1099 RBI ... 351 hrs ... 881 r
> > > > > Edgar: .962 OPS ... 750 RBI ... 196 hrs ... 854 r
> > > > > Palmeiro: .908 OPS ... 1,058 RBI ...328 hrs ... 965 r
> > > > > Gonzo: .929 OPS ... 1068 RBI ... 339 hrs ... 785 r
> > > > > Vaughn: .938 OPS ... 860 RBI ... 263 hrs ... 691 r
> > > > > Manny: .975 OPS ... 682 RBI ... 198 hrs ... 573 r
> > > > >
> > > > > From the above, any expert that said Edgar was better than Griffey
> and
> > > > > Thomas needs to have his head examined. Especially since Griffey
> adn
> > > > Edgar
> > > > > shared the same stadium (no park effects) and Thomas played in a
> much
> > > less
> > > > > hitter friendly park than Edgar for most of the 90s.
> > > > >
> > > > > Randy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, I can't speak for Charles, but frankly who cares if Edgar was
> > *the*
> > > > best of the 90s or not? He was clearly *one* of the best of the
'90s.
> > If
> > > > you're one of the best hitters over a whole decade, you're going to
> > merit
> > > > some HOF consideration.
> > >
> > > Edgar was clearly one of the best 15 hitters of the 1990's (behind
> Gwynn,
> > > Thomas, Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Ramirez, and Belle). Dale Murphy was
> > > clearly one of the best of the 1980's and Murphy was fantastic
> > defensively,
> > > Murphy is not a HoFer and Belle was clearly one of the top 10 hitters
of
> > the
> > > 1990's and won't be a HoFer.
> >
> > I don't know what Belle's chances are, but after looking up Murphy's
> stats,
> > there is no comparison between him and Edgar. In the same number of
> > seasons, Murphy hit about 90 HR more than Edgar has, but Edgar has hit
160
> > more doubles. Murphy hit .300 exactly twice over a full season: one
year
> > at .300 and another at .302. Edgar has done it 10 times.
> >
> > Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging percentage
and
> > OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are .312/.420/.518/.938
> It's
> > not even close.
>
> You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won 2 MVPs
> and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by
pitchers.
>
And Edgar was one of the top hitters in a decade dominated by hitters. i.e.
he had more competition. Do you really think if a manager had the choice to
pick either player in their prime, most would choose Murphy over Edgar? I
don't. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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Since: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 103
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Randy Heaton wrote:
> In a previous thread Charles said:
>
> "Edgar was the best hitter in the American League throughout most of
> the 1990's according to the experts (i.e. the people in the game).
> Hell did you bury your head in the dirt and somehow miss the myriad
> statements to that effect the last 10 years? Frankly if you are
> asking you are either simply contrary for the sake of being contrary
> or just don't know what you are yapping about"
>
> I challenge Charles to find the experts that said Edgar was the best
> AL hitter of the 90's. I will provide him with the AL numbers for
> some guys below and rank them as I would for best hitter of the AL
> 1990's.
snipped...
in the last 24 hours Tim Kurkjian and Lou Piniella have chimed in on that.
Hell ARod has said it a million times. What challenge is this? The numbers
you provide have nothing to do with anything I am saying.
>
> Randy
--
v/r Beau
I am right. You are wrong. Quit arguing with me. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Michael" <michaeln.DeleteThis@twentyten.org> wrote in message
news:10hia225jrqd11f@corp.supernews.com...
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:RE9Sc.4960
> > "Nikko" <nothanks.DeleteThis@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging percentage
> and
> > > OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are .312/.420/.518/.938
> > It's
> > > not even close.
> >
> > You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won 2
MVPs
> > and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by
> pitchers.
> >
> > Comparing absolute numbers from the 90's to 80's is a ludicrous
> comparison.
> > Murphy won 2 MVPs and had an OPS relative to his league that was about
as
> > high as Edgar's in the 90's.
> >
> > Edgar had more than 150 home runs than the best hitters of the naughts
or
> > teens... for that matter Ellis Burks looks good compared to them.
>
> Edgar's OPS relative to league for his career is 151 (100 being league
OPS).
> Murphy over his career was 121. I agree, it's not even close. Murphy had
> some tremendous years, but the Albert Belle argument was a better one than
> Murphy.
The Murphy argument is that Murphy was the best hitter of the 80's. His
1990's numbers are awful.
Murphy's 1980's OPS+ is 135 vs Edgar's 147 for the 1990s.
Murphy was about as good relative to the competition in the 80's as Edgar
was in the 90's. The point here is that Edgar being one of the top 15
hitters of the 90's is not enough to get him into the HoF just like it is
not enough to get Murphy into the HoF. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Randy Heaton" <randyheaton DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1jbSc.5207$lA3.4988@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> "Michael" <michaeln DeleteThis @twentyten.org> wrote in message
> news:10hia225jrqd11f@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RE9Sc.4960
> > > "Nikko" <nothanks DeleteThis @yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging
percentage
> > and
> > > > OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are
..312/.420/.518/.938
> > > It's
> > > > not even close.
> > >
> > > You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won 2
> MVPs
> > > and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by
> > pitchers.
> > >
> > > Comparing absolute numbers from the 90's to 80's is a ludicrous
> > comparison.
> > > Murphy won 2 MVPs and had an OPS relative to his league that was about
> as
> > > high as Edgar's in the 90's.
> > >
> > > Edgar had more than 150 home runs than the best hitters of the naughts
> or
> > > teens... for that matter Ellis Burks looks good compared to them.
> >
> > Edgar's OPS relative to league for his career is 151 (100 being league
> OPS).
> > Murphy over his career was 121. I agree, it's not even close. Murphy
had
> > some tremendous years, but the Albert Belle argument was a better one
than
> > Murphy.
>
> The Murphy argument is that Murphy was the best hitter of the 80's. His
> 1990's numbers are awful.
>
> Murphy's 1980's OPS+ is 135 vs Edgar's 147 for the 1990s.
>
> Murphy was about as good relative to the competition in the 80's as Edgar
> was in the 90's. The point here is that Edgar being one of the top 15
> hitters of the 90's is not enough to get him into the HoF just like it is
> not enough to get Murphy into the HoF.
This is a pointless discussion. Edgar is a far better hitter than Murphy.
Period. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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Since: May 18, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nikko" <nothanks.TakeThisOut@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
news:OwbSc.16733$9Y6.14398@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1jbSc.5207$lA3.4988@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > "Michael" <michaeln.TakeThisOut@twentyten.org> wrote in message
> > news:10hia225jrqd11f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > "Randy Heaton" <randyheaton.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:RE9Sc.4960
> > > > "Nikko" <nothanks.TakeThisOut@yourmomma.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > > Murphy's career averages for batting average, OBP, slugging
> percentage
> > > and
> > > > > OPS are: .265/.346/.469/.815 Edgar's numbers are
> .312/.420/.518/.938
> > > > It's
> > > > > not even close.
> > > >
> > > > You have to look at him relative to his contemporaries. Murphy won
2
> > MVPs
> > > > and was one of the top hitters of the 1980s that was dominated by
> > > pitchers.
> > > >
> > > > Comparing absolute numbers from the 90's to 80's is a ludicrous
> > > comparison.
> > > > Murphy won 2 MVPs and had an OPS relative to his league that was
about
> > as
> > > > high as Edgar's in the 90's.
> > > >
> > > > Edgar had more than 150 home runs than the best hitters of the
naughts
> > or
> > > > teens... for that matter Ellis Burks looks good compared to them.
> > >
> > > Edgar's OPS relative to league for his career is 151 (100 being league
> > OPS).
> > > Murphy over his career was 121. I agree, it's not even close. Murphy
> had
> > > some tremendous years, but the Albert Belle argument was a better one
> than
> > > Murphy.
> >
> > The Murphy argument is that Murphy was the best hitter of the 80's. His
> > 1990's numbers are awful.
> >
> > Murphy's 1980's OPS+ is 135 vs Edgar's 147 for the 1990s.
> >
> > Murphy was about as good relative to the competition in the 80's as
Edgar
> > was in the 90's. The point here is that Edgar being one of the top 15
> > hitters of the 90's is not enough to get him into the HoF just like it
is
> > not enough to get Murphy into the HoF.
>
>
> This is a pointless discussion. Edgar is a far better hitter than Murphy.
> Period.
Agreed. Edgar is/was a far better hitter than Murphy. >> Stay informed about: Challenge to Charles Beauchamp |
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