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Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:38 am
Post subject: Bonds Vs Pete Rose
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball, others (more info?)
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| I am currious what people think in regards to the possibility that Bonds was
doing steroids? We know Giambi all but gave up Barry Bonds... If Barry Bonds
is found to have been using illegal steroids should he be allowed to
continue in baseball?
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>> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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There is a difference between Rose and Bonds. There is also a difference
between Rose and Sosa.
What they have in common is that they are all liars. However, we know that
Sosa's corked bat was intended to alter the outcome of a game in a manner
inconsistent with the rules of the game. We know those who use steroids
intend to alter the games they play in a manner inconsistent with the spirit
of the rules of the game. I have seen no proof that Rose tried to alter the
outcome of any game he was betting on. Had he bet against the Reds, that
would be a different story.
So the question is, who has done more damage Rose who did not alter game
outcomes or Sosa and Bonds who did? Sosa, Bonds, Giambi and all the rest of
the cheaters should be banned from the game for life and all records they
hold forfeited.
--
"You can't start a fire by occasionally rubbing two
sticks together." Tibetan Proverb. |
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Since: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 134
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <V7Qrd.40362$Al3.6058@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
craigbirch DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net says...
> Not in my opinion. I think he is a piece of s***. I hope someone ends his
> career somehow. That cheating piece of garbage does not deserve to hold the
> Home Run record. It would be a disgrace to the game if he is allowed to
> continue to place and actually break that record.
Who does, then? We can't give it back to Aaron since he played in
the height of the amphetamine era. Can't give it to Ruth because of
segregation. Certainly can't give it to Mays after grand jury
testimony that he was the amphetamine source for the Mets. Robinson
played in the same era as Aaron. The next 10 or so get knocked off
for the same reasons. So, we essentially only have 47-66 or so.
Presenting, your new all-time home run leader: Duke Snider.
[...]
--
Dan Szymborski
dan DeleteThis @baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 134
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <zpSdnWxx4aYPYzLcRVn-sw RemoveThis @comcast.com>, r1h5aag6er4
@comcast.net says...
> There is a difference between Rose and Bonds. There is also a difference
> between Rose and Sosa.
>
> What they have in common is that they are all liars. However, we know that
> Sosa's corked bat was intended to alter the outcome of a game in a manner
> inconsistent with the rules of the game. We know those who use steroids
> intend to alter the games they play in a manner inconsistent with the spirit
> of the rules of the game. I have seen no proof that Rose tried to alter the
> outcome of any game he was betting on. Had he bet against the Reds, that
> would be a different story.
It's not about outcome. I don't think anyone's suggested Rose tried
to alter the outcomes. It's about a conflict of interest - a
cheater's interests remain the same.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan RemoveThis @baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>texas-rangers (more info?)
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Since: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball, others (more info?)
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>
> It's not about outcome. I don't think anyone's suggested Rose tried
> to alter the outcomes. It's about a conflict of interest - a
> cheater's interests remain the same.
>
So your argument is to ban the lot of them? I'm not going to disagree at
all. I just rank those we know cheated worse than I rank someone that put
himself in a position to be tempted to. >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 134
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <Xu6dnQW3-Y_qnSzcRVn-2Q.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>, r1h5aag6er4
@comcast.net says...
>
>
> >
> > It's not about outcome. I don't think anyone's suggested Rose tried
> > to alter the outcomes. It's about a conflict of interest - a
> > cheater's interests remain the same.
> >
> So your argument is to ban the lot of them? I'm not going to disagree at
> all. I just rank those we know cheated worse than I rank someone that put
> himself in a position to be tempted to.
But Rose wasn't in a position to cheat - he's in a position to have a
motive other than to win.
There's no conflict of interest for a cheater - his interest is still
undeniably on winning.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan.TakeThisOut@baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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External
Since: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> But Rose wasn't in a position to cheat - he's in a position to have a
> motive other than to win.
>
> There's no conflict of interest for a cheater - his interest is still
> undeniably on winning.
>
So cheating is okay because you're trying to win? >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 134
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <d72dnaK5K4bFzSzcRVn-iw.RemoveThis@comcast.com>, r1h5aag6er4
@comcast.net says...
> > But Rose wasn't in a position to cheat - he's in a position to have a
> > motive other than to win.
> >
> > There's no conflict of interest for a cheater - his interest is still
> > undeniably on winning.
> >
>
> So cheating is okay because you're trying to win?
Who said that? Lovely straw man.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan.RemoveThis@baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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so do you believe, Giambi, Sosa, Bonds and Rose should be banned for life?
--
"You can't start a fire by occasionally rubbing two
sticks together." Tibetan Proverb.
"Dan Szymborski" <dan DeleteThis @REMOVEbaseballprimer.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c1b9d515cd99ae9897ae@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> In article <d72dnaK5K4bFzSzcRVn-iw DeleteThis @comcast.com>, r1h5aag6er4
> @comcast.net says...
> > > But Rose wasn't in a position to cheat - he's in a position to have a
> > > motive other than to win.
> > >
> > > There's no conflict of interest for a cheater - his interest is still
> > > undeniably on winning.
> > >
> >
> > So cheating is okay because you're trying to win?
>
> Who said that? Lovely straw man.
>
> --
> Dan Szymborski
> dan DeleteThis @baseballprimerREMOVE.com
>
> "A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
> a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
> - Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 263
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Triple" <r1h5aag6er4.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<m4adnSlr5fG3fyzcRVn-tg.DeleteThis@comcast.com>...
> so do you believe, Giambi, Sosa, Bonds and Rose should be banned for life?
No I don't believe Giambi, Sosa or Bonds *should* be banned for life.
More to the point, I know they can't be.
The disciplinary penalties are clearly spelled out in the CBA. The
penalties *may* become more severe but they'll never reach that
level and the penalties won't become retroactive. >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 134
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <ddpvq0hpkod7qbrsj2u2k9si1b1po86ojd RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Barticus RemoveThis @att.spam.net says...
> 'Twas Fri, 03 Dec 2004 00:38:35 GMT when all alt.sports.baseball stood in
> awe as "Douglas" <douglas1 RemoveThis @anon.com> uttered:
>
> >I am currious what people think in regards to the possibility that Bonds was
> >doing steroids? We know Giambi all but gave up Barry Bonds... If Barry Bonds
> >is found to have been using illegal steroids should he be allowed to
> >continue in baseball?
>
> Bonds should be allowed to play. However, all of his HRs and BBs should
> be removed from the record books.
What about Mays and Aaron?
--
Dan Szymborski
dan RemoveThis @baseballprimerREMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not
a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 414
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <MPG.1c19cd5a4129cf65989795.TakeThisOut@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
Dan Szymborski <dan.TakeThisOut@REMOVEbaseballprimer.com> wrote:
> In article <zpSdnWxx4aYPYzLcRVn-sw.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>, r1h5aag6er4
> @comcast.net says...
> > There is a difference between Rose and Bonds. There is also a difference
> > between Rose and Sosa.
> >
> > What they have in common is that they are all liars. However, we know that
> > Sosa's corked bat was intended to alter the outcome of a game in a manner
> > inconsistent with the rules of the game. We know those who use steroids
> > intend to alter the games they play in a manner inconsistent with the spirit
> > of the rules of the game. I have seen no proof that Rose tried to alter the
> > outcome of any game he was betting on. Had he bet against the Reds, that
> > would be a different story.
>
> It's not about outcome. I don't think anyone's suggested Rose tried
> to alter the outcomes. It's about a conflict of interest - a
> cheater's interests remain the same.
And the mere fact that he bet on some Reds games and not on others was a
help to bookies and professional gamblers. And the hundreds of thousands
of dollars Rose owed to his bookies put him in danger of being forced to
alter the outcome of games.
--
JD
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game.
It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."-- Walt Whitman >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 414
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:59 am
Post subject: Re: Bonds Vs Pete Rose [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <ddpvq0hpkod7qbrsj2u2k9si1b1po86ojd.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
Randall Bart <Barticus.TakeThisOut@att.spam.net> wrote:
> 'Twas Fri, 03 Dec 2004 00:38:35 GMT when all alt.sports.baseball stood in
> awe as "Douglas" <douglas1.TakeThisOut@anon.com> uttered:
>
> >I am currious what people think in regards to the possibility that Bonds was
> >doing steroids? We know Giambi all but gave up Barry Bonds... If Barry Bonds
> >is found to have been using illegal steroids should he be allowed to
> >continue in baseball?
>
> Bonds should be allowed to play. However, all of his HRs and BBs should
> be removed from the record books.
Does that mean every every pitcher who's faced him should have his
records changed? And how about the change in game outcomes by removal of
all those HRs and walks.
And while we're at it, are we going to remove from the record books all
the wins by those pitchers we know cheated--like Gaylord Perry, Don
Sutton, etc.
Where does it end?
--
JD
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game.
It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."-- Walt Whitman >> Stay informed about: Bonds Vs Pete Rose |
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