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Big Break For Sox

 
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Big Break For The Sox - They should have been out of the inning as Crisp was out stealing. But I am not Go Sox!! RC Red Sox 2004 World Champions

10 games at the break - the poor June results it could be much worse. What were the Neg Nellies 5 games? -- Quis corriget ipsos

Break out the Rolaids....... - Seanez in with Tavarez waiting in the wings.

Come On All Star Break - This team looks like it might really need that

Varitek since the break... - .346 AVG, .452 OBP, .538 SLG. And 1 for 2 with a double so far today. Let's hope Varitek keeps it up -- given how Nixon and Lowell (for two) have been hitting (less well) since the break, a resurgent Varitek is a very good thing. Catch you later..
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richardcarlisle

External


Since: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 233



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Big Break For Sox
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>bos-redsox (more info?)

Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
not even close.

I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.

They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?

RC
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------


Using fancy 50 dollar words is nothing more than a tactic used by the
intellectually deficiant [sic] to try to impress those around them.

Fred Burton

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The Scout

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Since: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 27



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<richardcarlisle.RemoveThis@notyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
> not even close.
>
> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>
> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
>

I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no tag,
Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.

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richardcarlisle

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Since: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 233



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:46:58 -0500, "The Scout" <scout46 DeleteThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
><richardcarlisle DeleteThis @notyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
>> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
>> not even close.
>>
>> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
>> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
>> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
>> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>>
>> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
>>
>
>I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
>ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
>to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no tag,
>Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.

Why do you think he was stupid? It required a great play off the wall
by Crisp and an equally great throw to have a chance to get him. In
any case I find it interesting that you criticize the guy who made a
great slide to avoid the tag. The umpire blew the call and you call
the runner stupid. I wonder if it was a Red Sox player who got called
out on a similar play that you would call him stupid. Stupid is as
stupid does.

That is why I feel instant replay would be a useful tool to prevent
such egregious errors in calls to occur.

RC
>
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------


Using fancy 50 dollar words is nothing more than a tactic used by the
intellectually deficiant [sic] to try to impress those around them.

Fred Burton
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Ray O'Hara

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Since: Apr 13, 2007
Posts: 502



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:55 pm
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"The Scout" <scout46.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46996066$0$30593$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> <richardcarlisle.TakeThisOut@notyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
> > Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
> > not even close.
> >
> > I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
> > too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
> > instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
> > there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
> >
> > They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
> >
>
> I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
> ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
> to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no
tag,
> Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.
>
>


my thoughts too. its been that way forever.
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J Buck

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Since: Jul 28, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid
enough to try and stretch the single into a double.>

I hope those older umpires retire soon. Umpires are supposed to guess
what a batter/baserunner 'should' do?
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Lamneth

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Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 40



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:50 am
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"J Buck" <jbuck41.DeleteThis@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9420-46999C6F-793@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
> <I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
> ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid
> enough to try and stretch the single into a double.>
>
> I hope those older umpires retire soon. Umpires are supposed to guess
> what a batter/baserunner 'should' do?
>

What I'd love to see is some infallable laser system at home plate for balls
and strikes and a standby ump there for anything else. Probably won't happen
in my lifetime but one can dream. Then again it would take away the human
aspect of things but balls and strikes would be called consistently at
least. I can't count the times I've watched games and couldn't believe what
I was watching as far as balls and strike were concerned.
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McDuck

External


Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 91



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:57 am
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:46:58 -0500, "The Scout" <scout46 DeleteThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
><richardcarlisle DeleteThis @notyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
>> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
>> not even close.
>>
>> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
>> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
>> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
>> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>>
>> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
>>
>
>I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
>ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
>to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no tag,
>Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.
>

I don't favor that rule, but I do favor umps trying to get the play
right and the rest of us living with the result. Umps make errors, but
those errors are as much a part of the game as errors by the SS. I
would not mind replays for foul-ball HRs, however.
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Leon Lussier

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Since: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 100



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In fairness to the second base umpire, he was standing on the other
side of Glaus. His view was obstructed and he may not have been able to
clearly see that Dustin missed the tag. Human error happens. I don't
ever want to see instant replay come to baseball. There are things that
make baseball unique among all other sports. Why have umpires at all?
We can just put that annoying ESPN device that Joe Morgan is so in love
with and have that call the balls and strikes.
Unlike all other sports, in baseball you can't:
1. Hand the ball off to your best player. Jordan carried the Bulls.
Payton carried the Bears and Orr carried the Bruins. You can't pass the
ball off to the best player. Manny only comes up once every nine at
bats and Becket only pitches once every five days.
2. Baseball has no clock. Unlike all other sports, you can't kill a
clock to win a game. Each team gets an equal number of chances to win,
or lose, a game. What many kids hate about baseball, I love. The
slowness builds tension and drives me to the verge of a heart attack.
3. No substitutions. You can't rest your player for later in the game.
If he's out of the game then he is no longer a factor.
4. No instant replay. What you see is what you get. If you are lucky,
the umpires will all get together and overturn a bad call. (2004 Game 6
A.L.C.S anyone?). That is rare indeed. Hopefully, a bad call against
you today will be a bad call for you tomorrow.
It is for this reason that baseball is truly a thinking person's game.
Long may this game live!
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Ryan Robbins

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Since: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 413



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:55 am
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<richardcarlisle.DeleteThis@notyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
> not even close.
>
> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>
> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?

Because then you would need the umpires playing "pretend" with what might
have happened if the correct call had been made in the first place. When a
runner is called out, he stops running. How are you going to determine what
might have happened otherwise?
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Fred Burton

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Since: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 1140



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:16 am
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"Lamneth" <lamneth RemoveThis @thefountain.com> wrote in message
news:2vmdneVSEJw8OgTbnZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "J Buck" <jbuck41 RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:9420-46999C6F-793@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
>> <I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
>> ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid
>> enough to try and stretch the single into a double.>
>>
>> I hope those older umpires retire soon. Umpires are supposed to guess
>> what a batter/baserunner 'should' do?
>>
>
> What I'd love to see is some infallable laser system at home plate for
> balls and strikes and a standby ump there for anything else. Probably
> won't happen in my lifetime but one can dream. Then again it would take
> away the human aspect of things but balls and strikes would be called
> consistently at least. I can't count the times I've watched games and
> couldn't believe what I was watching as far as balls and strike were
> concerned.
>

I'm with you on a system for balls and strikes.

I've never bought into this mythical "human factor" about umpires. I'm
sorry,
but anyone who thinks that umpires and referees are a part of the game is
nuts. Only the players are "part" of the game. There's an old saying that
roughly says that the best umpired or refereed games are the ones where
you tend not to notice the umps or refs. That doesn't sound like they're
part of these games to me.
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Fred Burton

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Since: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 1140



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:27aj939lqv7bbb8fl0rpi119hsa3khti6l@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:46:58 -0500, "The Scout" <scout46 RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><richardcarlisle RemoveThis @notyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
>>> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
>>> not even close.
>>>
>>> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
>>> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
>>> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
>>> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>>>
>>> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
>>>
>>
>>I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
>>ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
>>to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no
>>tag,
>>Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.
>>
>
> I don't favor that rule, but I do favor umps trying to get the play
> right and the rest of us living with the result. Umps make errors, but
> those errors are as much a part of the game as errors by the SS. I
> would not mind replays for foul-ball HRs, however.

I wouldn't mind IR for any questionable home run, foul line or otherwise.
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Fred Burton

External


Since: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 1140



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:49 am
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"Leon Lussier" <RedSoxTres8 DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12003-4699B731-367@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
> In fairness to the second base umpire, he was standing on the other
> side of Glaus. His view was obstructed and he may not have been able to
> clearly see that Dustin missed the tag. Human error happens.

And every means possible should be taken to reduce it and remove it
from the game. Umpires are not a part of the game. Only the players
are a part of the game. Umpires are outside of the game to simply
makes sure that the rules are followed and to make judgement calls.
However, that doesn't mean that technology can't be used to reduce
the number of errors and increase the chances the right call is made.





>I don't
> ever want to see instant replay come to baseball. There are things that
> make baseball unique among all other sports. Why have umpires at all?
> We can just put that annoying ESPN device that Joe Morgan is so in love
> with and have that call the balls and strikes.
> Unlike all other sports, in baseball you can't:
> 1. Hand the ball off to your best player. Jordan carried the Bulls.
> Payton carried the Bears and Orr carried the Bruins. You can't pass the
> ball off to the best player. Manny only comes up once every nine at
> bats and Becket only pitches once every five days.

Baseball is a team game. And while your best, most productive hitters
often do carry the team, the nature of the game is such that you really
need contributions from most of the team to have a productive offense.
After all, your big RBI guys don't drive in runs from empty bases (unless
they hit a solo homer).

Another related thing that I like about baseball is that players are largely
expected to be different. You don't have 9 Manny's or 9 Pedrioa's in
the lineup or on the field. The nature of the game is such that players
of different sizes and abilities tend to better suited to different
positions.
And there's no real minimum size in baseball.

You can be a 5'9" guy and play 2B or SS, and largely no one will be
bothered. It's not like baseketball where a sub 6-footer can only have
a chance if he's lightning fast with exceptional skills, because his lack
of height will always be a liability. Being a little short at 2B or SS is
no real liability. Indeed, it may help you field grounders better than
someone who is particularly tall.

Or you can be a little chunky and stout and you'll be well suited to
being a catcher. Or overly tall but slow, and you might be well suited
to playing 1B or pitcher.

I also like that hitters aren't all expected to be "good" hitters in the
same way. We expect big, strong guys like Manny and Papi to hit
their share of homers. But we don't really expect smaller guys to
be the same sort of hitters as the sluggers. Since offense ison't only
about home runs, smaller players can be productive contributors
with whatever they're capable of hitting. Even a no-power, speedy
slap hitter who lays down the merest of hits, the bunt, can be productive
when he gets a bunt single.

I like that players in baseball can come in different sizes and aren't
expected to be carbon copies of one another! Smile



> 2. Baseball has no clock. Unlike all other sports, you can't kill a
> clock to win a game. Each team gets an equal number of chances to win,
> or lose, a game. What many kids hate about baseball, I love. The
> slowness builds tension and drives me to the verge of a heart attack.

I'm with you here, Leon. People have to remember that baseball
is a summer game. It's intended to be played at a slower pace with
only spurts of activity, rather than being constantly in motion.



> 3. No substitutions. You can't rest your player for later in the game.
> If he's out of the game then he is no longer a factor.

I wouldn't put it this way. But let's also be fair. Baseball isn't as
wearing as other sorts. That is, baseball tends to happen in spurts
and has plenty of opportunity for winded players to catch their breath.

For example, a big guy hits legs out a triple and is winded. If the next
guy
up works the count for a while, it may be a couple or more minutes until
the ball gets put into play and the big guy on third has to move again.

And sometimes, if a hitter or a catcher gets hit by a foul ball,but it's
clearly
not serious enough to warrant the trainers coming out, the ump will almost
always give the player enough time to let the immediate pain pass. Just as
if the ump got hit by the foul ball, the catcher often goes out to talk to
the
pitcher, just to give the ump time to get over the pain.








> 4. No instant replay. What you see is what you get. If you are lucky,
> the umpires will all get together and overturn a bad call. (2004 Game 6
> A.L.C.S anyone?). That is rare indeed. Hopefully, a bad call against
> you today will be a bad call for you tomorrow.

This phenomenon of umpires getting together is only a recent "innovation".

I don't see a lack of IR as a "good thing". I see it as stubborn and
anti-progress.




> It is for this reason that baseball is truly a thinking person's game.
> Long may this game live!
>

Oh, baloney. A lack of IR has got nothing to do with baseball
being a thinking person's game.

Regardless, I do whole-heartedly agree that baseball is a thinking person's
game.
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bayskater

External


Since: Oct 30, 2005
Posts: 16



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Fred Burton" <fburton RemoveThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
news:f7d55e$2bbi$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>
> "Leon Lussier" <RedSoxTres8 RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:12003-4699B731-367@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
>> In fairness to the second base umpire, he was standing on the other
>> side of Glaus. His view was obstructed and he may not have been able to
>> clearly see that Dustin missed the tag. Human error happens.
>
> And every means possible should be taken to reduce it and remove it
> from the game. Umpires are not a part of the game. Only the players
> are a part of the game. Umpires are outside of the game to simply
> makes sure that the rules are followed and to make judgement calls.
> However, that doesn't mean that technology can't be used to reduce
> the number of errors and increase the chances the right call is made.
>
>
>
>
>
>>I don't
>> ever want to see instant replay come to baseball. There are things that
>> make baseball unique among all other sports. Why have umpires at all?
>> We can just put that annoying ESPN device that Joe Morgan is so in love
>> with and have that call the balls and strikes.
>> Unlike all other sports, in baseball you can't:
>> 1. Hand the ball off to your best player. Jordan carried the Bulls.
>> Payton carried the Bears and Orr carried the Bruins. You can't pass the
>> ball off to the best player. Manny only comes up once every nine at
>> bats and Becket only pitches once every five days.
>
> Baseball is a team game. And while your best, most productive hitters
> often do carry the team, the nature of the game is such that you really
> need contributions from most of the team to have a productive offense.
> After all, your big RBI guys don't drive in runs from empty bases (unless
> they hit a solo homer).
>
> Another related thing that I like about baseball is that players are
> largely
> expected to be different. You don't have 9 Manny's or 9 Pedrioa's in
> the lineup or on the field. The nature of the game is such that players
> of different sizes and abilities tend to better suited to different
> positions.
> And there's no real minimum size in baseball.
>
> You can be a 5'9" guy and play 2B or SS, and largely no one will be
> bothered. It's not like baseketball where a sub 6-footer can only have
> a chance if he's lightning fast with exceptional skills, because his lack
> of height will always be a liability. Being a little short at 2B or SS is
> no real liability. Indeed, it may help you field grounders better than
> someone who is particularly tall.
>
> Or you can be a little chunky and stout and you'll be well suited to
> being a catcher. Or overly tall but slow, and you might be well suited
> to playing 1B or pitcher.
>
> I also like that hitters aren't all expected to be "good" hitters in the
> same way. We expect big, strong guys like Manny and Papi to hit
> their share of homers. But we don't really expect smaller guys to
> be the same sort of hitters as the sluggers. Since offense ison't only
> about home runs, smaller players can be productive contributors
> with whatever they're capable of hitting. Even a no-power, speedy
> slap hitter who lays down the merest of hits, the bunt, can be productive
> when he gets a bunt single.
>
> I like that players in baseball can come in different sizes and aren't
> expected to be carbon copies of one another! Smile
>
>
>
>> 2. Baseball has no clock. Unlike all other sports, you can't kill a
>> clock to win a game. Each team gets an equal number of chances to win,
>> or lose, a game. What many kids hate about baseball, I love. The
>> slowness builds tension and drives me to the verge of a heart attack.
>
> I'm with you here, Leon. People have to remember that baseball
> is a summer game. It's intended to be played at a slower pace with
> only spurts of activity, rather than being constantly in motion.
>
>
>
>> 3. No substitutions. You can't rest your player for later in the game.
>> If he's out of the game then he is no longer a factor.
>
> I wouldn't put it this way. But let's also be fair. Baseball isn't as
> wearing as other sorts. That is, baseball tends to happen in spurts
> and has plenty of opportunity for winded players to catch their breath.
>
> For example, a big guy hits legs out a triple and is winded. If the next
> guy
> up works the count for a while, it may be a couple or more minutes until
> the ball gets put into play and the big guy on third has to move again.
>
> And sometimes, if a hitter or a catcher gets hit by a foul ball,but it's
> clearly
> not serious enough to warrant the trainers coming out, the ump will almost
> always give the player enough time to let the immediate pain pass. Just
> as
> if the ump got hit by the foul ball, the catcher often goes out to talk to
> the
> pitcher, just to give the ump time to get over the pain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 4. No instant replay. What you see is what you get. If you are lucky,
>> the umpires will all get together and overturn a bad call. (2004 Game 6
>> A.L.C.S anyone?). That is rare indeed. Hopefully, a bad call against
>> you today will be a bad call for you tomorrow.
>
> This phenomenon of umpires getting together is only a recent "innovation".
>
> I don't see a lack of IR as a "good thing". I see it as stubborn and
> anti-progress.
>
>
>
>
>> It is for this reason that baseball is truly a thinking person's game.
>> Long may this game live!
>>
>
> Oh, baloney. A lack of IR has got nothing to do with baseball
> being a thinking person's game.
>
> Regardless, I do whole-heartedly agree that baseball is a thinking
> person's
> game.


I don't like to see it when an umpire calls a strike, but it's really a
ball (outside).
Then the batter thinks 'if the next pitch looks outside, I'd better swing or
this monkey will call it a strike".
The next pitch comes and the batter leans way over, swings and misses.

I don't think the players should have to have a book on umpires to learn
their strike zones.
If it takes machines to keep a consistent strike zone, then "bring 'em on"

"This ump is known to be very generous to pitchers"

Fred
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richardcarlisle

External


Since: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 233



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:57:57 -0400, McDuck
<wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:46:58 -0500, "The Scout" <scout46.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>><richardcarlisle.DeleteThis@notyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:c5ni935tb2ifi90v8liug6jln24hriekio@4ax.com...
>>> Glaus was clearly safe on that play. Pedroia never touched him. Was
>>> not even close.
>>>
>>> I still think they need instant replay on these calls as there are far
>>> too many phantom tags and very bad calls. There is no reason why
>>> instant replay cannot be instituted and calls overturned only when
>>> there is clear and convincing evidence that original call is wrong.
>>>
>>> They use them in football and basketball so why not baseball?
>>>
>>
>>I think some of the older umpires feel that if the ball gets there well
>>ahead of the runner, then the runner should be out for being stupid enough
>>to try and stretch the single into a double. Right or wrong, tag or no tag,
>>Glaus should have stopped at first base for a single.
>>
>
>I don't favor that rule, but I do favor umps trying to get the play
>right and the rest of us living with the result.

Why should we or the teams be willing to accept an incorrect call when
a video replay can settle it with great certainty?



>Umps make errors, but
>those errors are as much a part of the game as errors by the SS.

The question is should they be as much a part of the game as errors by
players? If a player makes an error that cost the team the game it is
part of baseball. If an ump make as error that costs the team the game
it is completely out of control of the players and I don't think that
is good for the game. This is why they have replays for both
basketball and football. And the replays seem to be working quite
well.

Some say that the errors by the umpires even out over the course of
the season and that may be true. But in a short series in the playoffs
where a single missed call can spell the difference between winning
and losing a championship it would be a shame to have that decided by
a clearly improper call when a replay can get it right with great
certainty.



> I
>would not mind replays for foul-ball HRs, however.

I personally favor replays for most everything except called balls and
strikes. The only concern I would have that it would slow the game
down excessively so there would need to be a method to prevent that
from happening.



RC
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------


Using fancy 50 dollar words is nothing more than a tactic used by the
intellectually deficiant [sic] to try to impress those around them.

Fred Burton
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 91



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Big Break For Sox [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:00:07 +0000, richardcarlisle RemoveThis @notyahoo.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:57:57 -0400, McDuck
><wallyDELETEMEMcDuck RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>

>>
>>I don't favor that rule, but I do favor umps trying to get the play
>>right and the rest of us living with the result.
>
>Why should we or the teams be willing to accept an incorrect call when
>a video replay can settle it with great certainty?
>
>
>
>>Umps make errors, but
>>those errors are as much a part of the game as errors by the SS.
>
>The question is should they be as much a part of the game as errors by
>players? If a player makes an error that cost the team the game it is
>part of baseball. If an ump make as error that costs the team the game
>it is completely out of control of the players and I don't think that
>is good for the game.

Why is it bad for the game. It has been good for the game for 100
years. We argue about the calls. Interesting thing for fans to do.

Ump errors are mostly out of the control of players --- not totally
b/c some players use their acting talents to appear to be HBP or to
have caught a trapped ball. But so what? Ump errors (and the resulting
arguments) are still part of the game as it has been played for 100
years. You hate baseball arguments? fine, but I think they are part of
the game. Having different K zones and pitchers and hitters having to
adjust is part of the game. An interesting and human part.

Fred's claim that a game with no ump controversies shows the ump did
his job is true, but it does not mean the umps are not part of the
game, just as a SS who makes all the routine plays is still part of
the game (even if we don't notice him).

>This is why they have replays for both
>basketball and football. And the replays seem to be working quite well.

I prefer baseball to football, in part b/c baseball is a players' game
and football is a coach's game. We have instant replay in football b/c
the coaches can't live with the fallibility of the refs. Plus the refs
in football aren't very good at their job --- they are all amateurs
who ref on the weekend.

Anyway, I don't think instant replay (oxymoron) is all that great in
football. I think it is better than not having it, but it does delay
the game. Also, the close plays are often NOT gotten right. They
overturn only for clear error. So what happens is that the areas of
disagreement are reduced,but they are not eliminated. And I think the
refs lose some confidence and do a worse job as a result of instant
reply. (I do favor reviewing films to train umps and refs to do better
the next time).

Instant replay is not used in baseball except trivially --- equivalent
to using it in baseball for foul-ball HRs. As best I recall, it is
mostly for whether a shot was launched before the clock struck one (24
second clock, game clock) and I guess (not sure) on whether someone
was over the 3-point line.


>Some say that the errors by the umpires even out over the course of
>the season and that may be true. But in a short series in the playoffs
>where a single missed call can spell the difference between winning
>and losing a championship it would be a shame to have that decided by
>a clearly improper call when a replay can get it right with great
>certainty.
>
Luck and bad calls are part of the game. To me, it would be a shame to
have some machine decide the WS. You obviously disagree. Fine. I like
disagreement <g>.

I do agree that the bad calls do not necessarily average out. Some
times a team is screwed. I can live with that --- I even enjoy it when
the team I like my team to beat gets screwed <g>.

>> I
>>would not mind replays for foul-ball HRs, however.
>
>I personally favor replays for most everything except called balls and
>strikes. The only concern I would have that it would slow the game
>down excessively so there would need to be a method to prevent that
>from happening.
>
No way to prevent delays. At best, you minimize them some.
>
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