Beckett ???

On Jul 9, 9:16 pm, DonFromBa....TakeThisOut@webtv.net wrote:
> Should we care that he got snubbed as the starter of the All Star game?
>
> --
> DON !!!
> "Save the cheer leader!!!
> Save the world"!!!

no Haren deserved the start his numbers were phenominal.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:25:14 -0400, McDuck
<wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:15:10 -0400, Gary <golferace2.TakeThisOut@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:05:08 -0400, eric <eric.TakeThisOut@local.net> wrote:
>>
>>>There is a theory out there that Pedro's All-Star start in 1999 was the
>>>event that started his cascade of injuries. And I remember Ray Fosse was
>>>never quite the same after his collision with Rose in the All-Star game.
>>>As far as I am concerned I'd rather that the Red Sox didn't send anyone to
>>>the All-Star game.
>>
>>The important thing is to not try and overthrow to impress anyone.
>>That's what happened with Pedro.
>>
>Why is that important? But yes, anyone who follows baseball was
>impressed.
>
>Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>tried to overthrow?


Yes. it is and he did.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:41:56 -0700, CalC wrote:

> no Haren deserved the start his numbers were phenominal.

If no Haren deserved the start, then why did he get it?


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

"Fred Burton" <fburton DeleteThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
news:f6v10c$15va$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>
> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:7uu593hdcu2etbe06342ej2h4l1p45f3gh@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:15:10 -0400, Gary <golferace2 DeleteThis @comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:05:08 -0400, eric <eric DeleteThis @local.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>There is a theory out there that Pedro's All-Star start in 1999 was the
>>>>event that started his cascade of injuries. And I remember Ray Fosse was
>>>>never quite the same after his collision with Rose in the All-Star game.
>>>>As far as I am concerned I'd rather that the Red Sox didn't send anyone
>>>>to
>>>>the All-Star game.
>>>
>>>The important thing is to not try and overthrow to impress anyone.
>>>That's what happened with Pedro.
>>>
>> Why is that important? But yes, anyone who follows baseball was
>> impressed.
>>
>> Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>> tried to overthrow?
>
> That's what I've heard many, many times since the Fenway ASG, i.e.
> that Pedro was overdoing it to impress everyone ... the home fans,
> the media, everyone... and that in doing that, he somehow injured
> himself. And IIRC, didn't he end up having a stint on the DL later
> that same season?
>
>

I remember that well, his first start after the AS game, it was a Sunday I
was out on a friend's boat and when we came in to the bar at the club we saw
that Pedro got pounded and at the same time Cone was busy tossing a
no-hitter in the Bronx. He spent a couple of weeks on the DL after that but
came back very strong including that playoff six inning no-hit relief
appearance in Cleveland. It does seem we always worried about his shoulder
after that. I think Gagne hurt himself in the all star game too.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

"Jim Tiberio" <jimtiberio.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5fhj1bF3cn1c4U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Fred Burton" <fburton.RemoveThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
> news:f6v10c$15va$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>>
>> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:7uu593hdcu2etbe06342ej2h4l1p45f3gh@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:15:10 -0400, Gary <golferace2.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:05:08 -0400, eric <eric.RemoveThis@local.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>There is a theory out there that Pedro's All-Star start in 1999 was the
>>>>>event that started his cascade of injuries. And I remember Ray Fosse
>>>>>was
>>>>>never quite the same after his collision with Rose in the All-Star
>>>>>game.
>>>>>As far as I am concerned I'd rather that the Red Sox didn't send anyone
>>>>>to
>>>>>the All-Star game.
>>>>
>>>>The important thing is to not try and overthrow to impress anyone.
>>>>That's what happened with Pedro.
>>>>
>>> Why is that important? But yes, anyone who follows baseball was
>>> impressed.
>>>
>>> Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>>> tried to overthrow?
>>
>> That's what I've heard many, many times since the Fenway ASG, i.e.
>> that Pedro was overdoing it to impress everyone ... the home fans,
>> the media, everyone... and that in doing that, he somehow injured
>> himself. And IIRC, didn't he end up having a stint on the DL later
>> that same season?
>>
>>
>
> I remember that well, his first start after the AS game, it was a Sunday I
> was out on a friend's boat and when we came in to the bar at the club we
> saw that Pedro got pounded and at the same time Cone was busy tossing a
> no-hitter in the Bronx. He spent a couple of weeks on the DL after that
> but came back very strong including that playoff six inning no-hit relief
> appearance in Cleveland. It does seem we always worried about his
> shoulder after that. I think Gagne hurt himself in the all star game too.
>

Yes, that wonderful 6 inning no-hit appearance was later that year.

I don't see how anyone could doubt that Pedro's appearance was
the root cause of his injury problems. This is not to say that he did
do well after that ASG, but that it is the root cause of problems to
come.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

<DonFromBarre RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16363-4692DDD2-898@storefull-3114.bay.webtv.net...
> Should we care that he got snubbed as the starter of the All Star game?
>

Beckett's been great this year but not awe inspiring, Haren's ERA is more
than a full run below Beckett's and his WHIP is under 1.00.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

Gnork asks:
<<Who says he was "snubbed"? >>

As you and others have pointed out, he really wasn't. But he, and not
Haren, DOES get an insert picture on the front page of USA Today. <G>

--
DON !!!
"Save the cheer leader!!!
Save the world"!!!
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:37:23 -0400, "Fred Burton"
<fburton DeleteThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote:

>
>"Jim Tiberio" <jimtiberio DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:5fhj1bF3cn1c4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Fred Burton" <fburton DeleteThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
>> news:f6v10c$15va$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>>>
>>> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:7uu593hdcu2etbe06342ej2h4l1p45f3gh@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:15:10 -0400, Gary <golferace2 DeleteThis @comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:05:08 -0400, eric <eric DeleteThis @local.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There is a theory out there that Pedro's All-Star start in 1999 was the
>>>>>>event that started his cascade of injuries. And I remember Ray Fosse
>>>>>>was
>>>>>>never quite the same after his collision with Rose in the All-Star
>>>>>>game.
>>>>>>As far as I am concerned I'd rather that the Red Sox didn't send anyone
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>the All-Star game.
>>>>>
>>>>>The important thing is to not try and overthrow to impress anyone.
>>>>>That's what happened with Pedro.
>>>>>
>>>> Why is that important? But yes, anyone who follows baseball was
>>>> impressed.
>>>>
>>>> Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>>>> tried to overthrow?
>>>
>>> That's what I've heard many, many times since the Fenway ASG, i.e.
>>> that Pedro was overdoing it to impress everyone ... the home fans,
>>> the media, everyone... and that in doing that, he somehow injured
>>> himself. And IIRC, didn't he end up having a stint on the DL later
>>> that same season?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I remember that well, his first start after the AS game, it was a Sunday I
>> was out on a friend's boat and when we came in to the bar at the club we
>> saw that Pedro got pounded and at the same time Cone was busy tossing a
>> no-hitter in the Bronx. He spent a couple of weeks on the DL after that
>> but came back very strong including that playoff six inning no-hit relief
>> appearance in Cleveland. It does seem we always worried about his
>> shoulder after that. I think Gagne hurt himself in the all star game too.
>>
>
>Yes, that wonderful 6 inning no-hit appearance was later that year.
>
>I don't see how anyone could doubt that Pedro's appearance was
>the root cause of his injury problems. This is not to say that he did
>do well after that ASG, but that it is the root cause of problems to
>come.
>
I doubt it. Just look at his numbers for 1999 and 2000. You really
believe that the best pitching performance in MLB history was
accomplished by an injured pitcher?

It is possible, of course, that he got injured from that performance,
but it is highly unlikely that the injury was serious. And unlikely in
the extreme that he tried to overthrow.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:45:27 -0400, Gary <golferace2 RemoveThis @comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:25:14 -0400, McDuck
><wallyDELETEMEMcDuck RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>>Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>>tried to overthrow?
>
>
>Yes. it is and he did.

I doubt tht there has ever been a pitcher in the all star game who
intentionally overthrew. Pedro may have done it by mistake, but it
would be idiotic to do it on purpose.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:16:02 -0400, DonFromBarre RemoveThis @webtv.net wrote:

>Should we care that he got snubbed as the starter of the All Star game?


I guess he'll just have to "settle" for being the WP of the game.
But then...wins don't really matter much, right ?

Josh gets to start game 1 of the World Series at FENWAY now...

That's the real prize...
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ??? 

"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f0q893pnicg41p68c6japerpgcda8k6ji1@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:37:23 -0400, "Fred Burton"
> <fburton.DeleteThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Tiberio" <jimtiberio.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:5fhj1bF3cn1c4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Fred Burton" <fburton.DeleteThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote in message
>>> news:f6v10c$15va$1@pyrite.mv.net...
>>>>
>>>> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:7uu593hdcu2etbe06342ej2h4l1p45f3gh@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:15:10 -0400, Gary <golferace2.DeleteThis@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:05:08 -0400, eric <eric.DeleteThis@local.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is a theory out there that Pedro's All-Star start in 1999 was
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>event that started his cascade of injuries. And I remember Ray Fosse
>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>never quite the same after his collision with Rose in the All-Star
>>>>>>>game.
>>>>>>>As far as I am concerned I'd rather that the Red Sox didn't send
>>>>>>>anyone
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>the All-Star game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The important thing is to not try and overthrow to impress anyone.
>>>>>>That's what happened with Pedro.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why is that important? But yes, anyone who follows baseball was
>>>>> impressed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wait, I just reread your post. Is it actually your position that Pedro
>>>>> tried to overthrow?
>>>>
>>>> That's what I've heard many, many times since the Fenway ASG, i.e.
>>>> that Pedro was overdoing it to impress everyone ... the home fans,
>>>> the media, everyone... and that in doing that, he somehow injured
>>>> himself. And IIRC, didn't he end up having a stint on the DL later
>>>> that same season?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I remember that well, his first start after the AS game, it was a Sunday
>>> I
>>> was out on a friend's boat and when we came in to the bar at the club we
>>> saw that Pedro got pounded and at the same time Cone was busy tossing a
>>> no-hitter in the Bronx. He spent a couple of weeks on the DL after that
>>> but came back very strong including that playoff six inning no-hit
>>> relief
>>> appearance in Cleveland. It does seem we always worried about his
>>> shoulder after that. I think Gagne hurt himself in the all star game
>>> too.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, that wonderful 6 inning no-hit appearance was later that year.
>>
>>I don't see how anyone could doubt that Pedro's appearance was
>>the root cause of his injury problems. This is not to say that he did
>>do well after that ASG, but that it is the root cause of problems to
>>come.
>>
> I doubt it. Just look at his numbers for 1999 and 2000. You really
> believe that the best pitching performance in MLB history was
> accomplished by an injured pitcher?

I think that you're overstating (overvaluing?) just how injured Petey
might have been. I'm only thinking that this was the root of injuries
to come with later aggrevations.

Also, there's little doubt that Pedro was seriously hurt when he pitched
that 6-inning, no hit playoff performance against Cleveland. IIRC, he
didn't even break 90 mph, but even injured, his command was still so
great that he dominated.

>
> It is possible, of course, that he got injured from that performance,
> but it is highly unlikely that the injury was serious. And unlikely in
> the extreme that he tried to overthrow.

And I and other disagree. I believe that however you want to term it,
Pedro was a less healthy pitcher after that ASG start than he was the
day before the ASG start. Does that mean that he couldn't still be a
spectacular pitcher after that date? No. But I strongly believe that it
was the root cause for injuries to come, since I believe that this root
cause injury weakened his shoulder (?) and made it more susceptible
to new and eventually more severe injuries at a later date.
 >> Stay informed about: Beckett ???