Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency

Colin William pisze:
> "Nicholas Beaudrot" <nicholas.beaudrot.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote ...
>> For whatever it's worth, the Braves DER is up from .703 to .720 ...
>> meaning the defense is giving up roughly 6% fewer hits than last year.
>> I count two full: swapping Andruw for Mark Kotsay, a full season from
>> Mark Teixeira, and replacing Renteria with Yunel Escobar.
>>
>> Interestingly, BP considers these changes to be a negative on balance.
>> So, it's either luck, or somebody's gotten better .
>
> Not surre how one factors in catcher defense and the like, but FWIW,
> according to BB-Ref Brian McCann has so far this year made no errors and
> allowed no passed balls; last year he made 13 errors and allowed 6 PB. He is
> allowing more SB this year, however.
>
> I haven't gotten to watch Tex's glovework at 1B, but I've long suspected
> that 1B defense is underrated in importance.

The difference between the absolutely best and the absolutely worst
fielding at 1B is about 1 win.

pzdr

TRad
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

Tomasz Radko wrote:
> It depends on what "know" means. I "know" it just like I "know" that OBP
> is more important that AVG - because I've read about it in some
> sabermetrics articles/books. IIRC the distance between the best and the
> worst fielding SS is about 5 wins. The defense is overrated.

And I "know" the single area in which sabermetrics has lagged most in
performance analysis is defense. So any claims to "know" the value of a
position on defense are overstated, no matter how many articles you have
read.

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

"Colin William" <colintwilliam RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ail4mF38gjnbU1@mid.individual.net...
> Tomasz Radko wrote:
>> It depends on what "know" means. I "know" it just like I "know" that OBP
>> is more important that AVG - because I've read about it in some
>> sabermetrics articles/books. IIRC the distance between the best and the
>> worst fielding SS is about 5 wins. The defense is overrated.
>
> And I "know" the single area in which sabermetrics has lagged most in
> performance analysis is defense. So any claims to "know" the value of a
> position on defense are overstated, no matter how many articles you have
> read.
>
> Colin

It is also an area that is not particularly well suited to objective
analysis. Someday, computers might digitize baseball games and can crunch
scenarios involving vectors and speed and player past-performances to
virtually determine how every player could/should have responded in the same
situation. Until then, defensive statistics are pretty suspect.

T
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

TimV wrote:
> It is also an area that is not particularly well suited to objective
> analysis. Someday, computers might digitize baseball games and can crunch
> scenarios involving vectors and speed and player past-performances to
> virtually determine how every player could/should have responded in the same
> situation. Until then, defensive statistics are pretty suspect.

Especially at 1B, where, AFAIK, they don't even account for a 1B's
ability to prevent errors by his teammates, which I believe to be a very
important ability at that position.

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 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

"Tarkus" <karnevil9 RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote
>> It is also an area that is not particularly well suited to objective
>> analysis. Someday, computers might digitize baseball games and can crunch
>> scenarios involving vectors and speed and player past-performances to
>> virtually determine how every player could/should have responded in the
>> same situation. Until then, defensive statistics are pretty suspect.
>
> Especially at 1B, where, AFAIK, they don't even account for a 1B's ability
> to prevent errors by his teammates, which I believe to be a very important
> ability at that position.

That's where I also am dubious about 1B defensive ratings. I don't
necessarily think 1B is an important defensive position, I just suspect it's
more important than many people think. Even if it's not prevention of errors
at other positions it might be, say, giving the shortstop the confidence to
make more aggressive throws.

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

Colin William wrote:
> "Tarkus" <karnevil9 RemoveThis @atlantabraves.net> wrote
>>> It is also an area that is not particularly well suited to objective
>>> analysis. Someday, computers might digitize baseball games and can crunch
>>> scenarios involving vectors and speed and player past-performances to
>>> virtually determine how every player could/should have responded in the
>>> same situation. Until then, defensive statistics are pretty suspect.
>> Especially at 1B, where, AFAIK, they don't even account for a 1B's ability
>> to prevent errors by his teammates, which I believe to be a very important
>> ability at that position.
>
> That's where I also am dubious about 1B defensive ratings. I don't
> necessarily think 1B is an important defensive position, I just suspect it's
> more important than many people think. Even if it's not prevention of errors
> at other positions it might be, say, giving the shortstop the confidence to
> make more aggressive throws.

Why is Fred McGriff the first name that comes to mind, every time this
subject is brought up?
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

In article <g20j0b$31v$2@news.interia.pl>,
Tomasz Radko <trad.DeleteThis@interia.pl> wrote:

> Colin William pisze:
> > "Nicholas Beaudrot" <nicholas.beaudrot.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote ...
> >> For whatever it's worth, the Braves DER is up from .703 to .720 ...
> >> meaning the defense is giving up roughly 6% fewer hits than last year.
> >> I count two full: swapping Andruw for Mark Kotsay, a full season from
> >> Mark Teixeira, and replacing Renteria with Yunel Escobar.
> >>
> >> Interestingly, BP considers these changes to be a negative on balance.
> >> So, it's either luck, or somebody's gotten better .
> >
> > Not surre how one factors in catcher defense and the like, but FWIW,
> > according to BB-Ref Brian McCann has so far this year made no errors and
> > allowed no passed balls; last year he made 13 errors and allowed 6 PB. He
> > is
> > allowing more SB this year, however.
> >
> > I haven't gotten to watch Tex's glovework at 1B, but I've long suspected
> > that 1B defense is underrated in importance.
>
> The difference between the absolutely best and the absolutely worst
> fielding at 1B is about 1 win.
>
> pzdr
>
> TRad

You obviously weren't a fan when Ken Caminiti played first base.

dick
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

On Jun 2, 6:11 pm, "Colin William" <colintwill....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Tarkus" <karnev....DeleteThis@atlantabraves.net> wrote
>
> > Why is Fred McGriff the first name that comes to mind, every time this
> > subject is brought up?
>
> Something to do with his statue performance in the 1997 playoffs?
>
> Colin

Dude, I have to watch Richie Sexson "field" 1B. I'd kill for Fred
McGriff.
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote
> You obviously weren't a fan when Ken Caminiti played first base.

Ah, the 2001 1B debacle. Started with brogna, then Helms, then Caminiti, and
finally the savior arrived in the form of Father Time. Good times.

Caminiti made 6 errors in 247 innings at 1B that season; all the other guys
combined for 8 errors in 1200 innings.

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

"Tarkus" <karnevil9.TakeThisOut@atlantabraves.net> wrote
> Why is Fred McGriff the first name that comes to mind, every time this
> subject is brought up?

Something to do with his statue performance in the 1997 playoffs?

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

"Nicholas Beaudrot" <nicholas.beaudrot DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote
> Dude, I have to watch Richie Sexson "field" 1B. I'd kill for Fred
> McGriff.

Haven't you heard It'll only cost one win!

Colin
 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency 

Colin William wrote:
> "Nicholas Beaudrot" <nicholas.beaudrot.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dude, I have to watch Richie Sexson "field" 1B. I'd kill for Fred
>> McGriff.
>
> Haven't you heard It'll only cost one win!

One win between the best and the worst. In this case, I don't think
that would quite qualify.

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 >> Stay informed about: Andruw' Jones & Braves Defensive Efficiency