Aluminum bats in Major Leagues?

>
> >Sammy made a MISTAKE. Plain and simple. Mistakes don't translate to
> >cheating, and if you think they do, you live in an alternate universe.
>
> No, a mistake is when you forget to pick up the loaf of bread that
> your wife told you to bring home after work. A mistake is when you
> drop the carton of eggs. A mistake is swinging at what you thought
> was a fastball, but turns out to be a slider.
>
> Intentionally hollowing out your bat and filling it with a substance
> you believe will give you a competitive advantage, in contravention of
> the rules, is cheating. Sosa did the latter.


Someone, I can't recall now which website it was but I think it was the
Sporting, did a video history of all of Sammy's at bats in the last 5 or 6
seasons. In that time,. he has always used a bat that was either entirely
ash colored,. or entirely black. The corked bat the took to the plate with
the corked center was black down the barrel with a ash colored handle and a
spiky border between the two. In all the cataloged at-bats up to now,.
there is no evidence that Sammy has ever used a bat that looked like that
nor do any of the other bats in cub's bat box. So, you have to ask yourself
which is more likely.. that Sammy could pick up a bat that looks nothing
like the one he always uses by accident, or that he intentionally used it in
a game situation for the first time ever. Either way, it makes you question
either Sammys integrity or intelligence, if not both.
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

> Well I could support the change from wood to something else PROVIDED the
> new material had all the (relevant) properties of wood. Namely, it has
> to have an impact on the ball the same as wood and when the ball is hit
> it has to sound like wood.
>
>
> dick
> -- If it caused the same feeling to go through the batters arms when he
> had a perfect hit that would be OK too.
>

A few years ago MLB did spend some money to research a possible replacement
to the wooden bat made from a polymer based resin that gave it the "look"
and "feel" of wood, but the sound and actual physical performance was so far
off that they abandoned the project. Not to mention that each bat was way
more expensive than a wooden one.
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

In article <qxOdnaC6suY7x2KjXTWJhg RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
"McDuck" <wallymcduckDELETEME RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>"David Marc Nieporent" <nieporen RemoveThis @alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
>> Sam Hutcheson <sigma.alpha.mu.howitzer RemoveThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >Cory <seekerspamfree RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:

>> >>S-A-M-M-Y D-I-D *N-O-T* C-H-E-A-T.
>> >>Ya got that?? Can you READ that? Can you COMPREHEND it?
>> >>If not, try sounding it out and see if that helps any.
>> >>Sammy made a MISTAKE. Plain and simple. Mistakes don't translate to
>> >>cheating, and if you think they do, you live in an alternate universe.

>> >This is quite clearly a sensitive issue with you, but, intentionally
>> >or not, Sosa broke the rules of the game. That is pretty much
>> >"cheating" by definition.

>> I don't think so. I think cheating, by definition, requires knowledge.
>> Cheating implies more than mere rulebreaking; it implies intentional
>> rulebreaking -- or, more specifically, intentional rulebreaking to gain an
>> advantage.

>You may think that, and you are entitled to think that, and in some
>contexts, you could convince other people to think it. But hitting with a
>corked bat in baseball is cheating without reference to intent.

Ah. I forgot, you were appointed to rewrite the dictionary.

---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent nieporen RemoveThis @alumni.princeton.edu
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

"Cory" <seekerspamfree.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3EFF2B44.4070602@mindspring.com...
> OK... GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD... and I'll say it very slowly so that
> you and any other dickwad who thinks like you will understand it...
>
> S-A-M-M-Y D-I-D *N-O-T* C-H-E-A-T.
>
> Ya got that?? Can you READ that? Can you COMPREHEND it?
>
> If not, try sounding it out and see if that helps any.
>
> Sammy made a MISTAKE. Plain and simple. Mistakes don't translate to
> cheating, and if you think they do, you live in an alternate universe.
>
> --- Cory


pffft!!! That has to be one of the funniest things I have heard in a long
time. You are like the anti-troll, you are exactly like a troll but the
complete opposite.
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

"Stephen Hale" <stephenhale.DeleteThis@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vfumu856qv4r25@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > >Sammy made a MISTAKE. Plain and simple. Mistakes don't translate to
> > >cheating, and if you think they do, you live in an alternate universe.
> >
> > No, a mistake is when you forget to pick up the loaf of bread that
> > your wife told you to bring home after work. A mistake is when you
> > drop the carton of eggs. A mistake is swinging at what you thought
> > was a fastball, but turns out to be a slider.
> >
> > Intentionally hollowing out your bat and filling it with a substance
> > you believe will give you a competitive advantage, in contravention of
> > the rules, is cheating. Sosa did the latter.
>
>
> Someone, I can't recall now which website it was but I think it was the
> Sporting, did a video history of all of Sammy's at bats in the last 5 or 6
> seasons. In that time,. he has always used a bat that was either entirely
> ash colored,. or entirely black. The corked bat the took to the plate
with
> the corked center was black down the barrel with a ash colored handle and
a
> spiky border between the two. In all the cataloged at-bats up to now,.
> there is no evidence that Sammy has ever used a bat that looked like that
> nor do any of the other bats in cub's bat box. So, you have to ask
yourself
> which is more likely.. that Sammy could pick up a bat that looks nothing
> like the one he always uses by accident, or that he intentionally used it
in
> a game situation for the first time ever. Either way, it makes you
question
> either Sammys integrity or intelligence, if not both.
>
>

You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a bat
ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong person
such as Sosa. I don't see that it would. I'd be happy to see some data of
the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is suddenly
gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed when str
uck and c)ball flight distance.

Anybody have the data on this? If you do and it's not a SIGNIFICANT
difference then I vote we drop the whole Sammy cheated non-sense.

Nail
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:06:14 GMT, "telmaHmAI"
<telmahmai.TakeThisOut@socal.river_rafting.com> wrote:

>You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a bat
>ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong person
>such as Sosa. I don't see that it would. I'd be happy to see some data of
>the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is suddenly
>gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed when str
>uck and c)ball flight distance.

1) Without going into details, no, corking doesn't actually help.

2) It doesn't matter. If someone breaks the rules in an attempt to
help himself, it doesn't matter that he didn't get the help he was
looking for.

s/

*****

"I'm devaluing something. In others. In myself. And I'm starting to distrust the most
casual exchange. What kind of advertising do you do?" Magda, _Pattern Recognition_
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

"David Marc Nieporent" <nieporen.DeleteThis@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:nieporen-

> >> I don't think so. I think cheating, by definition, requires knowledge.
> >> Cheating implies more than mere rulebreaking; it implies intentional
> >> rulebreaking -- or, more specifically, intentional rulebreaking to gain
an
> >> advantage.
>
> >You may think that, and you are entitled to think that, and in some
> >contexts, you could convince other people to think it. But hitting with a
> >corked bat in baseball is cheating without reference to intent.
>
> Ah. I forgot, you were appointed to rewrite the dictionary.
>
Sarcasm is the last refuge of scoundrels. <grin> But you are also wrong
about the dictionary.

cheat >v. 1 act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an
advantage. ->deprive of something by deceitful or unfair means. 2 avoid
(something undesirable) by luck or skill: she cheated death in a spectacular
crash. >n. 1 a person who cheats. 2 an act of cheating.
-ORIGIN ME: shortening of escheat

Nothing about intent in the Oxford electronic definition provided above
(full entry, no editing). By the way, if you happen to know what "escheat"
means, you also understand that escheat does not depend on intent. (For
those who don't know, it is the passage of property to the state when the
deceased has not written a will that specifies who he wants to get the
property.
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:38:07 GMT, johnm41.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:

>Thomas R wrote:
>
>> A colleague of mine indicated the possibility of swiching over to aluminum
>> bats in major leagues. One reason why is a cost factor as wooden bats are
>> expensive and break often.. The other argument was the mitigation of
>> cheating using corked bats. The recent Sammy incident has given fuel for
>> the aluminum bat advocates, but I suspect the aluminum bat hype will become
>> dormant once the Sammy cheating incident is forgotten about. Do you guru's
>> believe aluminum bats are in the cards in the near future?
>
> Because of the speed at which a ball comes off the aluminum bats now in use
>some compensation would have to take place such has finding a way to deaden the
>aluminum, use some other less lively economical bat material, or deaden the
>ball.


The NCAA and several bat manufacturers are already working on a way of
making a 'dead' aluminum bat, due to player injury at the college and
high scholl level as well as a 21-14 score for a championship game

Jay
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

telmaHmAI <telmahmai.RemoveThis@socal.river_rafting.com> wrote:
>You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a bat
>ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong person
>such as Sosa. I don't see that it would.

It's not just an ounce. And it comes from the distal end
of the bat. Moment of inertia comes in.

Take a bat with 17 inches of handle, 8 inches of conical
transition, and 9 inches of barrel, totalling 34 inches and
weighing 34 ounces. Like this one:

http://www.steccabats.com/steccaproducts.html

Neglect the knob.

The bat has a volume of about 68 in^3 and a density of about
0.44 oz/in^3. Its total moment of inertia is about 815 in-oz.

Drilling 6 inches deep with a 1-inch drill and replacing
the wood with cork (at 0.11 oz/in^3) reduces the mass by
about 1.5 oz and the MOI by about 47 in-oz.

The weight changes by 4.5%, but the MOI drops almost 6%.
It's a 33% gain on simply using a 1.5-oz lighter bat.

For a person who spends his days swinging bats and
comparing bat specs and looking for potential gamers,
it would be a noticeable difference from his own bat.

>I'd be happy to see some data of
>the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is suddenly
>gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed when str
>uck and c)ball flight distance.
>Anybody have the data on this? If you do and it's not a SIGNIFICANT
>difference then I vote we drop the whole Sammy cheated non-sense.

Look up Adair's book on the physics of baseball. Corking
a bat gives a very small advantage, on the order of a couple
of percent in distance. But 5-10 extra feet taken over a
batter's entire fly-ball pattern over a season could mean
several more home runs and several fewer outs.

It's fairly dumb when you consider the risk/reward ratio.
What's the value of a couple more homers to Sammy, vs. the
losses from getting caught?

But nobody ever accused him of being an expert on Bayes' rule.

--Blair
"Just a cheater."
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

"Blair P. Houghton" <b.RemoveThis@p.h> wrote in message
news:FBOLa.3016301$YZ.454107@news.easynews.com...
> telmaHmAI <telmahmai.RemoveThis@socal.river_rafting.com> wrote:
> >You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a
bat
> >ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong person
> >such as Sosa. I don't see that it would.
>
> It's not just an ounce. And it comes from the distal end
> of the bat. Moment of inertia comes in.
>
> Take a bat with 17 inches of handle, 8 inches of conical
> transition, and 9 inches of barrel, totalling 34 inches and
> weighing 34 ounces. Like this one:
>
> http://www.steccabats.com/steccaproducts.html
>
> Neglect the knob.
>
> The bat has a volume of about 68 in^3 and a density of about
> 0.44 oz/in^3. Its total moment of inertia is about 815 in-oz.
>
> Drilling 6 inches deep with a 1-inch drill and replacing
> the wood with cork (at 0.11 oz/in^3) reduces the mass by
> about 1.5 oz and the MOI by about 47 in-oz.
>
> The weight changes by 4.5%, but the MOI drops almost 6%.
> It's a 33% gain on simply using a 1.5-oz lighter bat.
>
> For a person who spends his days swinging bats and
> comparing bat specs and looking for potential gamers,
> it would be a noticeable difference from his own bat.
>
> >I'd be happy to see some data of
> >the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is
suddenly
> >gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed when
str
> >uck and c)ball flight distance.
> >Anybody have the data on this? If you do and it's not a SIGNIFICANT
> >difference then I vote we drop the whole Sammy cheated non-sense.
>
> Look up Adair's book on the physics of baseball. Corking
> a bat gives a very small advantage, on the order of a couple
> of percent in distance. But 5-10 extra feet taken over a
> batter's entire fly-ball pattern over a season could mean
> several more home runs and several fewer outs.

I believe you are mistaken. Adair says the ball goes shorter, not longer. He
also says the faster bat lets you catch up with a pitch, hence more accurate
swings. But NOT more homeruns. More hits, however.

Speaking of Adair, on TV he said Sammy's bat was NOT corked the way you
described it. Adair said that is the way it USUALLY is done, but that
Sammy's bat was ridiculously corked with a TRANSVERSE plug at about the
midpoint of the bat. Adair laughed at this and implied there was no way this
corking could have helped Sammy (to which I respond, then, was it really an
illegal bat at all? To be illegal it has to help you or make the ball act
funny. But Sammy's corking seems to have done neither.)

Also, I read the top half of Sammy's bat disappeared during the game and
only the bottom half was examined, which had the oddball transverse cork
plug. Anybody know if this is true? Or who MADE Sammy's "crowd pleaser"
bats? (FTR, I think Sammy cheated.) ;-(
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

"rorytony" <rory.RemoveThis@redshift.com> wrote in message
news:vfvf68l1k90b19@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Blair P. Houghton" <b.RemoveThis@p.h> wrote in message
> news:FBOLa.3016301$YZ.454107@news.easynews.com...
> > telmaHmAI <telmahmai.RemoveThis@socal.river_rafting.com> wrote:
> > >You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a
> bat
> > >ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong
person
> > >such as Sosa. I don't see that it would.
> >
> > It's not just an ounce. And it comes from the distal end
> > of the bat. Moment of inertia comes in.
> >
> > Take a bat with 17 inches of handle, 8 inches of conical
> > transition, and 9 inches of barrel, totalling 34 inches and
> > weighing 34 ounces. Like this one:
> >
> > http://www.steccabats.com/steccaproducts.html
> >
> > Neglect the knob.
> >
> > The bat has a volume of about 68 in^3 and a density of about
> > 0.44 oz/in^3. Its total moment of inertia is about 815 in-oz.
> >
> > Drilling 6 inches deep with a 1-inch drill and replacing
> > the wood with cork (at 0.11 oz/in^3) reduces the mass by
> > about 1.5 oz and the MOI by about 47 in-oz.
> >
> > The weight changes by 4.5%, but the MOI drops almost 6%.
> > It's a 33% gain on simply using a 1.5-oz lighter bat.
> >
> > For a person who spends his days swinging bats and
> > comparing bat specs and looking for potential gamers,
> > it would be a noticeable difference from his own bat.
> >
> > >I'd be happy to see some data of
> > >the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is
> suddenly
> > >gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed
when
> str
> > >uck and c)ball flight distance.
> > >Anybody have the data on this? If you do and it's not a SIGNIFICANT
> > >difference then I vote we drop the whole Sammy cheated non-sense.
> >
> > Look up Adair's book on the physics of baseball. Corking
> > a bat gives a very small advantage, on the order of a couple
> > of percent in distance. But 5-10 extra feet taken over a
> > batter's entire fly-ball pattern over a season could mean
> > several more home runs and several fewer outs.
>
> I believe you are mistaken. Adair says the ball goes shorter, not longer.
He
> also says the faster bat lets you catch up with a pitch, hence more
accurate
> swings. But NOT more homeruns. More hits, however.
>
> Speaking of Adair, on TV he said Sammy's bat was NOT corked the way you
> described it. Adair said that is the way it USUALLY is done, but that
> Sammy's bat was ridiculously corked with a TRANSVERSE plug at about the
> midpoint of the bat. Adair laughed at this and implied there was no way
this
> corking could have helped Sammy (to which I respond, then, was it really
an
> illegal bat at all? To be illegal it has to help you or make the ball act
> funny. But Sammy's corking seems to have done neither.)
>
> Also, I read the top half of Sammy's bat disappeared during the game and
> only the bottom half was examined, which had the oddball transverse cork
> plug. Anybody know if this is true? Or who MADE Sammy's "crowd pleaser"
> bats? (FTR, I think Sammy cheated.) ;-(
>
>
>

It is an illegal bat because it was altered - end of story.
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

Top posting...sorry.

Thanks Blair for some insight.

n


"Blair P. Houghton" <b.RemoveThis@p.h> wrote in message
news:FBOLa.3016301$YZ.454107@news.easynews.com...
> telmaHmAI <telmahmai.RemoveThis@socal.river_rafting.com> wrote:
> >You also have to ask yourself if the 1 OZ of weight saved by corking a
bat
> >ends up as any noticible difference in the hands of a very strong person
> >such as Sosa. I don't see that it would.
>
> It's not just an ounce. And it comes from the distal end
> of the bat. Moment of inertia comes in.
>
> Take a bat with 17 inches of handle, 8 inches of conical
> transition, and 9 inches of barrel, totalling 34 inches and
> weighing 34 ounces. Like this one:
>
> http://www.steccabats.com/steccaproducts.html
>
> Neglect the knob.
>
> The bat has a volume of about 68 in^3 and a density of about
> 0.44 oz/in^3. Its total moment of inertia is about 815 in-oz.
>
> Drilling 6 inches deep with a 1-inch drill and replacing
> the wood with cork (at 0.11 oz/in^3) reduces the mass by
> about 1.5 oz and the MOI by about 47 in-oz.
>
> The weight changes by 4.5%, but the MOI drops almost 6%.
> It's a 33% gain on simply using a 1.5-oz lighter bat.
>
> For a person who spends his days swinging bats and
> comparing bat specs and looking for potential gamers,
> it would be a noticeable difference from his own bat.
>
> >I'd be happy to see some data of
> >the physics of this, but I don't see how one measly little ounce is
suddenly
> >gonig to make all that much difference in a)bat speed b) ball speed when
str
> >uck and c)ball flight distance.
> >Anybody have the data on this? If you do and it's not a SIGNIFICANT
> >difference then I vote we drop the whole Sammy cheated non-sense.
>
> Look up Adair's book on the physics of baseball. Corking
> a bat gives a very small advantage, on the order of a couple
> of percent in distance. But 5-10 extra feet taken over a
> batter's entire fly-ball pattern over a season could mean
> several more home runs and several fewer outs.
>
> It's fairly dumb when you consider the risk/reward ratio.
> What's the value of a couple more homers to Sammy, vs. the
> losses from getting caught?
>
> But nobody ever accused him of being an expert on Bayes' rule.
>
> --Blair
> "Just a cheater."
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues? 

rorytony wrote:
> Speaking of Adair, on TV he said Sammy's bat was NOT corked the way you
> described it. Adair said that is the way it USUALLY is done, but that
> Sammy's bat was ridiculously corked with a TRANSVERSE plug at about the
> midpoint of the bat. Adair laughed at this and implied there was no way this
> corking could have helped Sammy (to which I respond, then, was it really an
> illegal bat at all? To be illegal it has to help you or make the ball act
> funny. But Sammy's corking seems to have done neither.)
>
Could you cite the rule that allows you to infer that a corked bat is
legal as long as it doesn't help the user?

dick
--this is a serious request
 >> Stay informed about: Aluminum bats in Major Leagues?