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ARod's future

 
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McDuck

External


Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 91



(Msg. 76) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>bos-redsox (more info?)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:15:43 -0400, "Fred Burton"
<fburton.RemoveThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote:

>
>"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:1cbj93pih7ulfc23u9ojnrti55546orrge@4ax.com...

>>
>> Anyway, anyone who follows football even casually knows that the NFL
>> salary cap is primarly designed to make owners, even terrible owners
>> like the Fords, extremely rich, at the expense of the players. It has
>> some useful effects on competitive balance, but that is not central to
>> its design.
>>
>>>
>
>Bullshit. The Lions have as good a chance to win as anyone else.
>What is holding them back isn't competitive impalance nor a lack of
>resources. It's bad management. They have the exact same resouces
>as any other team. The Lions can't win because the Lions ownership
>has no committment to winning, not any lack of resources and revenues.

You really believe that the owners of the Lions do not want to win? In
the old days, when the team did win under the same ownership, was that
because they did have a commitment to winning but somehow lost it?

Okay, so you don't follow football. No complaint from me. You were the
one saying that one had to know something about football to have
credibility on baseball economics.

>
>> "Anyway, anyone who follows football even casually knows that the NFL
>> salary cap is primarly designed to make owners, even terrible owners
>> like the Fords, extremely rich, at the expense of the players. "
>
>What a pantload of leftist, anti-capitalist bullcrap!!! There's just
>nothing
>more to say about this ridiculous and idiotic statement. Leftist
>bullcrap!!!
>
>
Well one thing --- the "cap" is not a tool of capitalism, so why are
accurate comments about the effeects of the cap "anti-capitalist
bullcrap"? and what is this about leftists? Do you think leftists are
apologists for rich, mostl right-wing, football players?

Fine to be angry, but geez, at least try to make some political sense
with your angry outbursts.

By the way, what would you think if the Lions tried to prevent
touchdowns by mining the end zone? Is that idea nutty enough to catch
your fancy? Or are you going to give me a pant full of leftist
bullcrap about people getting hurt?

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gclark

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Since: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 35



(Msg. 77) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

BadgerBC wrote:
> On Jul 15, 10:44 am, gclark <gcl....TakeThisOut@noneya.net> wrote:
>> BadgerBC wrote:
>>> On Jul 15, 10:30 am, gclark <gcl....TakeThisOut@noneya.net> wrote:
>>>> BadgerBC wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:11 am, "Fred Burton" <fbur....TakeThisOut@starfire.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 2. Mining the US-Mexico border is "probably not a very smart idea", it would
>>>>>> be an outstandingly brilliant idea.
>>>>> You really are a blithering idiot, aren't you? We're still digging up
>>>>> anti-personnel mines all along the Iron Triangle 54 years after the
>>>>> Korean War. I'd personally evacuated a nine year old Korean boy back
>>>>> in 1977 who'd stepped on one near Sungwon. Generals James
>>>>> Hollingsworth, Hank "Gunfighter" Emerson, Douglas Kinnard, and David
>>>>> Palmer (and the list goes on and on) who had fought in three wars
>>>>> (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) currently head an overwhelming number of
>>>>> flag officers who have begged the United States government to sign the
>>>>> Ottawa Protocol banning landmines.
>>>>> Since you probably know less about military matters than you do about
>>>>> economics, let me explain why this is an idiotic proposal of
>>>>> unparalleled magnitude. First, the ones who'd get maimed or worse
>>>>> killed are mostly women and children. Do you have any frigging idea
>>>>> how many mines would be needed to cover the border? There are
>>>>> estimated *2million* mines along the DMZ that stretches out 155miles.
>>>>> Even if you don't strive for the same level of saturation, do you have
>>>>> any clue the quantity that would be required to effectively cover
>>>>> 1900miles?
>>>>> As for properly marking them and keeping a master list, guess what?
>>>>> The Army studies have concluded that *more* American casualties in
>>>>> Korea were caused by US *defensive minefields* than enemy mines.
>>>>> Finally, if you're concerned about al-Qaeda penetrating the US from
>>>>> our southern border, just use your brain and think whether it's a good
>>>>> idea to make about 5000 tons of military grade explosives available to
>>>>> them. An al-Qaeda operative who survived Iraq against US forces (it's
>>>>> a rite of passage for the current generation) and underwent rigorous
>>>>> training in Pakistan isn't going to have a problem navigating a
>>>>> minefield as these people would have the skills to identify and disarm
>>>>> them (In fact 90 percent of all component parts of mines used against
>>>>> US forces in Vietnam were US-made). And what they could do with
>>>>> salvaged explosives would make Main Street USA resemble the Triangle
>>>>> of Death.
>>>> Great post Neil.
>>> Thanks Glen. How have you been?
>> Very well thanks.
>>
>> Hope all is well with your son. I was having an IM exchange with
>> my son the other day when they were under a mortar attack. Did not faze
>> him a bit, can't say the same for me. I'm sure you understand.
>>
>
>
> Thank you very much. Owen had deployed as a replacement PL with 15MEU
> in al-Anbar last December. They rotated out two months ago (They have
> a 6mos deployment cycle unlike the Army), but he's still in the
> sandbox as he just became an aide-de-camp in I MEF (Forward). He's in
> a much better situation now, but yeah I can't relax until he comes
> home. Did they extend your son's outfit after the surge? I hope and
> pray all our kids come home safe and sound.
>


I don't believe his tour has been extended. He as well as his entire
squadron volunteered. Not sure if that will make a difference.
Due back stateside in December, then off to Guam to be part of an RDF
unit.

Great talking to you, hope you and yours stay safe.

--
Glen

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Bob-Nob

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Since: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 196



(Msg. 78) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:30 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

gclark venit, vidit, et dixit:
> Pearly Soames wrote:
>> Wayback1918 wrote:

>>> I was going to comment on "ARod's future". Am I
>>> in the right place?

>> According to Ann Coulter and George Liquor, ARod's future
>> is in the NFL.

> Pearly, you never disappoint me by leaving me laughing. Please
> don't change. Smile

I feel like a guest during Bilbo's farewell speech -- I can't
figure out wherher the previous post is intended as a compliment
or not. Little help here?

Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer

--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
IF22: Cliff wins best film, cast | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"Can't complain; had his chance, and in modern parlance, blew it."
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gclark

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Since: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 35



(Msg. 79) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:30 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bob-Nob wrote:
> gclark venit, vidit, et dixit:
>> Pearly Soames wrote:
>>> Wayback1918 wrote:
>
>>>> I was going to comment on "ARod's future". Am I
>>>> in the right place?
>
>>> According to Ann Coulter and George Liquor, ARod's future
>>> is in the NFL.
>
>> Pearly, you never disappoint me by leaving me laughing. Please
>> don't change. Smile
>
> I feel like a guest during Bilbo's farewell speech -- I can't
> figure out wherher the previous post is intended as a compliment
> or not. Little help here?
>
> Catch you later.
> --Robert Machemer
>


Compliment.

--
Glen
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McDuck

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Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 91



(Msg. 80) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:21:46 GMT, Keith Willoughby <keith.TakeThisOut@flat222.org>
wrote:

>"Fred Burton" <fburton.TakeThisOut@starfire.mv.com> writes:
>
>> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> "Anyway, anyone who follows football even casually knows that the NFL
>>> salary cap is primarly designed to make owners, even terrible owners
>>> like the Fords, extremely rich, at the expense of the players. "
>>
>> What a pantload of leftist, anti-capitalist bullcrap!!!
>
>The leftist in this thread is you. Revenue sharing and salary caps
>aren't capitalist, they're a rejection of markets in favour of central
>economic planning and control. The trouble is, you don't understand
>enough about the words you use or the concepts you discuss to understand
>this, so I'll say it once more - McDuck and I are defending the market,
>and you are rejecting it.

Thanks. Our answered crossed but were basically the same, except for
my typos.
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Keith Willoughby

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Since: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 227



(Msg. 81) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Fred Burton" <fburton.TakeThisOut@starfire.mv.com> writes:

> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> "Anyway, anyone who follows football even casually knows that the NFL
>> salary cap is primarly designed to make owners, even terrible owners
>> like the Fords, extremely rich, at the expense of the players. "
>
> What a pantload of leftist, anti-capitalist bullcrap!!!

The leftist in this thread is you. Revenue sharing and salary caps
aren't capitalist, they're a rejection of markets in favour of central
economic planning and control. The trouble is, you don't understand
enough about the words you use or the concepts you discuss to understand
this, so I'll say it once more - McDuck and I are defending the market,
and you are rejecting it.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
We have always been at war with Eurasia
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Keith Willoughby

External


Since: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 227



(Msg. 82) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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BadgerBC <neilrichardson3819.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> writes:

> On Jul 15, 6:11 am, "Fred Burton" <fbur....TakeThisOut@starfire.mv.com> wrote:
>
>
>> 2. Mining the US-Mexico border is "probably not a very smart idea", it would
>> be an outstandingly brilliant idea.
>
> You really are a blithering idiot, aren't you?

[big snip]

Pwned.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Load up on drugs, kill your friends"
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Pearly Soames

External


Since: Jun 14, 2007
Posts: 105



(Msg. 83) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:34 pm
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gclark wrote:

>
> Pearly, you never disappoint me by leaving me laughing. Please don't
> change. Smile
>

I'll try not to. Thanks for being amused.
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BadgerBC

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Since: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 757



(Msg. 84) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:58 pm
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On Jul 15, 4:09 pm, "gnork" <gnor....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> That's how I see it too.
>
> Hey, are you really a Canadian or some retired resituated renamed spy? Well,
> I couldn't expect an honest answer if you were.

Yeah, I'm the real Johnny English.


>How 'bout them Red Sox?


So far they've disappointed me greatly by staying relatively
healthy. ; )
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Dano

External


Since: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 998



(Msg. 85) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:s4uk93ljjmittp841jvlcohav7f8mc18mh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:52:41 -0400, "Fred Burton"
> <fburton DeleteThis @starfire.mv.com> wrote:
>
>>How this relates to Coulter, I think one has to know whether she was
>>serious
>>or not.
>
> To have a high opinion of Coulter, one is forced to assume that she is
> rarely serious.

Or have REALLY bad taste in women...
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gnork

External


Since: Jan 09, 2007
Posts: 441



(Msg. 86) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:03 pm
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"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ohuk931ecnqbibg0jnb09v6gihto2gld33@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:41:39 GMT, "gnork" <gnork44.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > A
> >big problem is that until we the people became very upset about the
illegal
> >issue, very little was done about it by either party. The Democrats see
> >future constituients, future expansion of the government and they get to
> >posture to the left about their great humanitarism. The Republicans see
> >cheap labor for their big business friends.
> >>
>
> Immigation is an issue that divides both parties. Both parties have
> political leaders who are anxious to reduce illegal immigration, and
> both have leaders who see advantages to their party, etc., from
> looking the other way, so to speak.
>
> In fact, the issue is fairly complex. Of course, I agree with you
> about mining the borders. Nutty on stilts. Anyway, the borders can be
> bypassed (do we also mine airports and beaches?), and there is a
> significant problem of the 12 million or more human beings already
> over the border.
>
> The compromise bill that the far right shot down would have cut back
> on illegals and given limited rights to the illegals already here.
> Problems with the plan, but it was a lot better than nothing IMHO.
>
> I agree that enforcement of current rules could cut back on illegals,
> but such enforcement is not easy and would not have as big an effect
> as you suggest because in the end, the people enforcing the rules are
> not as cruel as would be necessary to actually enforce the rules. You
> actually agree --- you want to treat the sick and then send them home,
> but the rules would not provide for that level of humanitarianism.
>
> One current problem is with the seasonal agricultural workers. The
> tougher provisions on immigration has had the perverse result of
> having these people stay in the US all year instead of returning home
> after the harvest season. And then they go on welfare or whatever to
> get through the winter.
>
> We have had tacitly open borders for a long time and have a huge
> illegal population in place. It seems to me we need to separate the
> two issues --- what to do with those already here and what to do with
> the new ones trying to get in. Lots to debate because too favorable
> treatment of those already in the country could increase the pressure
> to bring in more. But if we do not treat those already here humanely,
> we undermine political support for closing the borders and create a
> lot of problems, quite aside from the fact that not treating people
> humanly is not a nice thing to do (as you made clear yourself in your
> post).
>
> So, there is a need to get tough but not too tough, and the lines are
> not easily drawn. My hope is that the people drawing the lines are not
> people who think mining the border is a good idea.

Nobody in a position to make decisions is that crazy. Hmmm, stilts...
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gnork

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Since: Jan 09, 2007
Posts: 441



(Msg. 87) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"gclark" <gclark.RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote in message
news:1ZqdnUK1h4kvEQfbnZ2dnUVZ_t-gnZ2d@forethought.net...
> BadgerBC wrote:
> > On Jul 15, 10:44 am, gclark <gcl....RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote:
> >> BadgerBC wrote:
> >>> On Jul 15, 10:30 am, gclark <gcl....RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote:
> >>>> BadgerBC wrote:
> >>>>> On Jul 15, 6:11 am, "Fred Burton" <fbur....RemoveThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> 2. Mining the US-Mexico border is "probably not a very smart idea",
it would
> >>>>>> be an outstandingly brilliant idea.
> >>>>> You really are a blithering idiot, aren't you? We're still digging
up
> >>>>> anti-personnel mines all along the Iron Triangle 54 years after the
> >>>>> Korean War. I'd personally evacuated a nine year old Korean boy
back
> >>>>> in 1977 who'd stepped on one near Sungwon. Generals James
> >>>>> Hollingsworth, Hank "Gunfighter" Emerson, Douglas Kinnard, and
David
> >>>>> Palmer (and the list goes on and on) who had fought in three wars
> >>>>> (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) currently head an overwhelming number of
> >>>>> flag officers who have begged the United States government to sign
the
> >>>>> Ottawa Protocol banning landmines.
> >>>>> Since you probably know less about military matters than you do
about
> >>>>> economics, let me explain why this is an idiotic proposal of
> >>>>> unparalleled magnitude. First, the ones who'd get maimed or worse
> >>>>> killed are mostly women and children. Do you have any frigging idea
> >>>>> how many mines would be needed to cover the border? There are
> >>>>> estimated *2million* mines along the DMZ that stretches out
155miles.
> >>>>> Even if you don't strive for the same level of saturation, do you
have
> >>>>> any clue the quantity that would be required to effectively cover
> >>>>> 1900miles?
> >>>>> As for properly marking them and keeping a master list, guess what?
> >>>>> The Army studies have concluded that *more* American casualties in
> >>>>> Korea were caused by US *defensive minefields* than enemy mines.
> >>>>> Finally, if you're concerned about al-Qaeda penetrating the US from
> >>>>> our southern border, just use your brain and think whether it's a
good
> >>>>> idea to make about 5000 tons of military grade explosives available
to
> >>>>> them. An al-Qaeda operative who survived Iraq against US forces
(it's
> >>>>> a rite of passage for the current generation) and underwent rigorous
> >>>>> training in Pakistan isn't going to have a problem navigating a
> >>>>> minefield as these people would have the skills to identify and
disarm
> >>>>> them (In fact 90 percent of all component parts of mines used
against
> >>>>> US forces in Vietnam were US-made). And what they could do with
> >>>>> salvaged explosives would make Main Street USA resemble the Triangle
> >>>>> of Death.
> >>>> Great post Neil.
> >>> Thanks Glen. How have you been?
> >> Very well thanks.
> >>
> >> Hope all is well with your son. I was having an IM exchange with
> >> my son the other day when they were under a mortar attack. Did not faze
> >> him a bit, can't say the same for me. I'm sure you understand.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Thank you very much. Owen had deployed as a replacement PL with 15MEU
> > in al-Anbar last December. They rotated out two months ago (They have
> > a 6mos deployment cycle unlike the Army), but he's still in the
> > sandbox as he just became an aide-de-camp in I MEF (Forward). He's in
> > a much better situation now, but yeah I can't relax until he comes
> > home. Did they extend your son's outfit after the surge? I hope and
> > pray all our kids come home safe and sound.
> >
>
>
> I don't believe his tour has been extended. He as well as his entire
> squadron volunteered. Not sure if that will make a difference.
> Due back stateside in December, then off to Guam to be part of an RDF
> unit.

RDF? Does that have anything to do with visiting Guamese massage parlors?
(g)
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gclark

External


Since: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 35



(Msg. 88) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

gnork wrote:
> "gclark" <gclark.RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote in message
> news:1ZqdnUK1h4kvEQfbnZ2dnUVZ_t-gnZ2d@forethought.net...
>> BadgerBC wrote:
>>> On Jul 15, 10:44 am, gclark <gcl....RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote:
>>>> BadgerBC wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 15, 10:30 am, gclark <gcl....RemoveThis@noneya.net> wrote:
>>>>>> BadgerBC wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:11 am, "Fred Burton" <fbur....RemoveThis@starfire.mv.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 2. Mining the US-Mexico border is "probably not a very smart idea",
> it would
>>>>>>>> be an outstandingly brilliant idea.
>>>>>>> You really are a blithering idiot, aren't you? We're still digging
> up
>>>>>>> anti-personnel mines all along the Iron Triangle 54 years after the
>>>>>>> Korean War. I'd personally evacuated a nine year old Korean boy
> back
>>>>>>> in 1977 who'd stepped on one near Sungwon. Generals James
>>>>>>> Hollingsworth, Hank "Gunfighter" Emerson, Douglas Kinnard, and
> David
>>>>>>> Palmer (and the list goes on and on) who had fought in three wars
>>>>>>> (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) currently head an overwhelming number of
>>>>>>> flag officers who have begged the United States government to sign
> the
>>>>>>> Ottawa Protocol banning landmines.
>>>>>>> Since you probably know less about military matters than you do
> about
>>>>>>> economics, let me explain why this is an idiotic proposal of
>>>>>>> unparalleled magnitude. First, the ones who'd get maimed or worse
>>>>>>> killed are mostly women and children. Do you have any frigging idea
>>>>>>> how many mines would be needed to cover the border? There are
>>>>>>> estimated *2million* mines along the DMZ that stretches out
> 155miles.
>>>>>>> Even if you don't strive for the same level of saturation, do you
> have
>>>>>>> any clue the quantity that would be required to effectively cover
>>>>>>> 1900miles?
>>>>>>> As for properly marking them and keeping a master list, guess what?
>>>>>>> The Army studies have concluded that *more* American casualties in
>>>>>>> Korea were caused by US *defensive minefields* than enemy mines.
>>>>>>> Finally, if you're concerned about al-Qaeda penetrating the US from
>>>>>>> our southern border, just use your brain and think whether it's a
> good
>>>>>>> idea to make about 5000 tons of military grade explosives available
> to
>>>>>>> them. An al-Qaeda operative who survived Iraq against US forces
> (it's
>>>>>>> a rite of passage for the current generation) and underwent rigorous
>>>>>>> training in Pakistan isn't going to have a problem navigating a
>>>>>>> minefield as these people would have the skills to identify and
> disarm
>>>>>>> them (In fact 90 percent of all component parts of mines used
> against
>>>>>>> US forces in Vietnam were US-made). And what they could do with
>>>>>>> salvaged explosives would make Main Street USA resemble the Triangle
>>>>>>> of Death.
>>>>>> Great post Neil.
>>>>> Thanks Glen. How have you been?
>>>> Very well thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Hope all is well with your son. I was having an IM exchange with
>>>> my son the other day when they were under a mortar attack. Did not faze
>>>> him a bit, can't say the same for me. I'm sure you understand.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much. Owen had deployed as a replacement PL with 15MEU
>>> in al-Anbar last December. They rotated out two months ago (They have
>>> a 6mos deployment cycle unlike the Army), but he's still in the
>>> sandbox as he just became an aide-de-camp in I MEF (Forward). He's in
>>> a much better situation now, but yeah I can't relax until he comes
>>> home. Did they extend your son's outfit after the surge? I hope and
>>> pray all our kids come home safe and sound.
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe his tour has been extended. He as well as his entire
>> squadron volunteered. Not sure if that will make a difference.
>> Due back stateside in December, then off to Guam to be part of an RDF
>> unit.
>
> RDF? Does that have anything to do with visiting Guamese massage parlors?
> (g)
>
>


LMAO.

--
Glen
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gnork

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Since: Jan 09, 2007
Posts: 441



(Msg. 89) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:09 pm
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"BadgerBC" <neilrichardson3819 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184532712.208086.289060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 15, 1:09 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:38:29 -0700, BadgerBC
> >
> > <neilrichardson3... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Jul 15, 10:30 am, gclark <gcl... DeleteThis @noneya.net> wrote:
> > >> BadgerBC wrote:
> > >> Great post Neil.
> >
> > >Thanks Glen. How have you been?
> >
> > Agreed. but I have an unrelated question: Have you read "Legacy of
> > Ashes" (about the CIA)? I have it on order.
>
> Yes I did. It's a formidably researched work, but there are some
> questions about balance. Most of the pre-1970 coverage is just
> outstanding IMHO (even better than Loch Johnson's work). However, the
> weakness is the coverage of the end of the Cold War. There are better
> works on this period by Sir Christopher Andrew and even some former
> Operations Directorate officials like Milt Bearden (as far as
> microhistory of the SE Division). Even Philip Zelikow and Condi
> Rice's book is probably better especially regarding the German
> unification. The real problem is that a lot of details on the Agency's
> successes from the period after James Angleton lost influence to Ames
> and Hansen (The two probably wiped out most of the networks in the SE
> Divison) just haven't been declassified yet.
>
> And we have Gordievsky and now General Oleg Kalugin suggesting that
> the Agency was quite good during this period (early 1970s to mid
> 1980s) when there were amazing successes. For example the CIA
> sabotaged the Soviet gas pipeline and apparently Adolf Tolkachev's
> products were comparable in scope and value to Walker ring's work
> (they gave away the Navy's crown jewels to KGB). However, the extent
> of the details haven't been made known fully. Of course right after
> this unprecedented string of successes against the Soviet Union (other
> than Penkovsky period), Hansen and Ames destroyed the SE Division's
> entire network as well as MI6 assets like Gordievsky who had a very
> close call before exfiltration.
>
> Finally, it's been reported from the Russian side that GHW Bush
> informed Gorbachev and Yeltsin about the Kryuchkov-Yanayev-Yazov
> ring's coup attempt even though it meant he was giving away sources
> and methods on US IC's access to top level Soviet governmental
> communications (In Christopher Andrew's view, GHW Bush is among the
> three greatest US presidents when it came to handling intelligence
> affairs. The other two were George Washington and Ike) Gorbachev was
> delusional and ignored it while Yeltsin heeded the warning. With
> advanced warning, Yeltsin had coopted the Taman Division leadership
> and even some KGB Alpha leaders who basically ended the coup by
> refusing to obey the order to crack down on Yeltsin led group who had
> the popular support of most Muscovites. That was an intelligence
> success unparalleled in terms of value IMHO as it ended the Soviet
> Union's existence peacefully (which wasn't something many predicted
> then)
>
> In terms of the Agency's analytics history, Weiner is a little weak
> IMHO but that might be due to lack of access. Tenet had allowed some
> outstanding US diplomatic and intelligence historians unprecedented
> access (George Herring, John Lewis Gaddis, Robert Pastor, Ernest May,
> and Robert Jervis who is among the most important political scientists
> in the last 50 years) back in 1996. However, the declassification
> process has crawled to a halt during the first GWB administration and
> now they are rolling it back altogether. However, it'll probably take
> some time (probably after a Dem White House) before some of that is
> released.

That's how I see it too.

Hey, are you really a Canadian or some retired resituated renamed spy? Well,
I couldn't expect an honest answer if you were. How 'bout them Red Sox?
>
 >> Stay informed about: ARod's future 
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McDuck

External


Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 91



(Msg. 90) Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:09 pm
Post subject: Re: ARod's future [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:09:25 GMT, "gnork" <gnork44 RemoveThis @earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>"BadgerBC" <neilrichardson3819 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1184532712.208086.289060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 15, 1:09 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:38:29 -0700, BadgerBC
>> >
>> > <neilrichardson3... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >On Jul 15, 10:30 am, gclark <gcl... RemoveThis @noneya.net> wrote:
>> > >> BadgerBC wrote:
>> > >> Great post Neil.
>> >
>> > >Thanks Glen. How have you been?
>> >
>> > Agreed. but I have an unrelated question: Have you read "Legacy of
>> > Ashes" (about the CIA)? I have it on order.
>>
>> Yes I did. It's a formidably researched work, but there are some
>> questions about balance.

<snip>

Thanks for all the references.
>
>That's how I see it too.
>
>Hey, are you really a Canadian or some retired resituated renamed spy? Well,
>I couldn't expect an honest answer if you were. How 'bout them Red Sox?
>>
 >> Stay informed about: ARod's future 
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Login to vote
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