The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:41:10 -0800 (PST), powrwrap
wrote:

>Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
>$5M with a $500K buyout.

For a guy like Punto, that seems like a fair contract. If he has
another season or two like last season (and 2006), that's not a
bad deal for the Twins, IMO.

If Punto plays like he did in 2007....not such a good deal.

Which Nick Punto will they get?

>So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
>Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?

Think the Twins are done with the Gomez as leadoff hitter experiment?

..
..


- Scott Smith: scott.smith.TakeThisOut@iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Dec 11, 5:11 pm, brianj wrote:
> On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>
> > Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
> > $5M with a $500K buyout.
>
> > So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
> > Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again, and
> will be a Jacque Jones type lead-off hitter (i.e. one who has the
> potential to hit a home run).  It may not happen in 2009, but I think
> his hitting will continue to improve (it had better!).  Because of
> that, he will find himself batting lead off again, sooner rather than
> later.  So saith me.
>
> For what it's worth, I am glad the Twins signed Punto, though I am a
> little surprised at the price tag.  I was thinking more like $2
> million per year--maybe 3.  Nonetheless, as Scott said, if he plays
> like last year, he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> of MLB salaries, I mean).
>
> brianj

It's the glove, boys, it's the GLOVE! <g>

AnnE who is very happy they signed Punto. See? I told
you!! ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Dec 12, 7:56 am, AnnE wrote:
> On Dec 11, 5:11 pm, brianj wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>
> > > Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
> > > $5M with a $500K buyout.
>
> > > So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
> > > Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> > I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again, and
> > will be a Jacque Jones type lead-off hitter (i.e. one who has the
> > potential to hit a home run).  It may not happen in 2009, but I think
> > his hitting will continue to improve (it had better!).  Because of
> > that, he will find himself batting lead off again, sooner rather than
> > later.  So saith me.
>
> > For what it's worth, I am glad the Twins signed Punto, though I am a
> > little surprised at the price tag.  I was thinking more like $2
> > million per year--maybe 3.  Nonetheless, as Scott said, if he plays
> > like last year, he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> > of MLB salaries, I mean).
>
> > brianj
>
> It's the glove, boys, it's the GLOVE! <g>
>
>       AnnE who is very happy they signed Punto.  See?   I told
> you!!    ;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, but Anne, the trouble that everybody remembers (I know you do)
was in 2007 when he hit .210. Even then, he was very good
defensively. And don't get me wrong. I like Punto and his defense.
But if he is going to return to batting .210, then, no matter how good
his glove is, I don't think he's worth having on the roster,
regardless of his salary. His batting average over the years has been
pretty erratic (2003-2008: .217, .253, .239, .290, .210, .284, and
he's a career .252 hitter) , and that is a little scary. A .239
season will bring out the ire of Twins fans everywhere. But if he can
consistently hit like he did in 2008, I think he will be worth every
penny of his contract. And he is fun to watch.

brianj
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Dec 12, 9:32 am, brianj wrote:
> On Dec 12, 7:56 am, AnnE wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 5:11 pm, brianj wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>
> > > > Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
> > > > $5M with a $500K buyout.
>
> > > > So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
> > > > Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> > > I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again, and
> > > will be a Jacque Jones type lead-off hitter (i.e. one who has the
> > > potential to hit a home run).  It may not happen in 2009, but I think
> > > his hitting will continue to improve (it had better!).  Because of
> > > that, he will find himself batting lead off again, sooner rather than
> > > later.  So saith me.
>
> > > For what it's worth, I am glad the Twins signed Punto, though I am a
> > > little surprised at the price tag.  I was thinking more like $2
> > > million per year--maybe 3.  Nonetheless, as Scott said, if he plays
> > > like last year, he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> > > of MLB salaries, I mean).
>
> > > brianj
>
> > It's the glove, boys, it's the GLOVE! <g>
>
> >       AnnE who is very happy they signed Punto.  See?   I told
> > you!!    ;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, but Anne, the trouble that everybody remembers (I know you do)
> was in 2007 when he hit .210.  Even then, he was very good
> defensively.  And don't get me wrong.  I like Punto and his defense.
> But if he is going to return to batting .210, then, no matter how good
> his glove is, I don't think he's worth having on the roster,
> regardless of his salary.  His batting average over the years has been
> pretty erratic (2003-2008: .217, .253, .239, .290, .210, .284, and
> he's a career .252 hitter) , and that is a little scary.  A .239
> season will bring out the ire of Twins fans everywhere.  But if he can
> consistently hit like he did in 2008, I think he will be worth every
> penny of his contract.  And he is fun to watch.
>
> brianj

Me remember? Nah, that gets more difficult with age, believe me.

If the TWINS had a heavy hitter in the lineup...then you wouldn't care
how one player's average is, right? Gosh, this sounds like a broken
record with you guys. Didn't I hear the same thing with Dougie?? <G>

[bad sentence above.....too early] AnnE says he IS fun
to watch
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Dec 13, 6:45 am, AnnE wrote:
> On Dec 12, 9:32 am, brianj wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 7:56 am, AnnE wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 11, 5:11 pm, brianj wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>
> > > > > Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
> > > > > $5M with a $500K buyout.
>
> > > > > So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
> > > > > Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> > > > I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again, and
> > > > will be a Jacque Jones type lead-off hitter (i.e. one who has the
> > > > potential to hit a home run).  It may not happen in 2009, but I think
> > > > his hitting will continue to improve (it had better!).  Because of
> > > > that, he will find himself batting lead off again, sooner rather than
> > > > later.  So saith me.
>
> > > > For what it's worth, I am glad the Twins signed Punto, though I am a
> > > > little surprised at the price tag.  I was thinking more like $2
> > > > million per year--maybe 3.  Nonetheless, as Scott said, if he plays
> > > > like last year, he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> > > > of MLB salaries, I mean).
>
> > > > brianj
>
> > > It's the glove, boys, it's the GLOVE! <g>
>
> > >       AnnE who is very happy they signed Punto.  See?   I told
> > > you!!    ;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, but Anne, the trouble that everybody remembers (I know you do)
> > was in 2007 when he hit .210.  Even then, he was very good
> > defensively.  And don't get me wrong.  I like Punto and his defense..
> > But if he is going to return to batting .210, then, no matter how good
> > his glove is, I don't think he's worth having on the roster,
> > regardless of his salary.  His batting average over the years has been
> > pretty erratic (2003-2008: .217, .253, .239, .290, .210, .284, and
> > he's a career .252 hitter) , and that is a little scary.  A .239
> > season will bring out the ire of Twins fans everywhere.  But if he can
> > consistently hit like he did in 2008, I think he will be worth every
> > penny of his contract.  And he is fun to watch.
>
> > brianj
>
> Me remember?  Nah, that gets more difficult with age, believe me.
>
> If the TWINS had a heavy hitter in the lineup...then you wouldn't care
> how one player's average is, right?   Gosh, this sounds like a broken
> record with you guys.  Didn't I hear the same thing with Dougie??  <G>
>
>      [bad sentence above.....too early]          AnnE says he IS fun
> to watch- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm sticking to my guns on the Dougie thing?

brianj
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Dec 13, 12:08 pm, brianj wrote:
> On Dec 13, 6:45 am, AnnE wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 9:32 am, brianj wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 12, 7:56 am, AnnE wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 11, 5:11 pm, brianj wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>
> > > > > > Just signed a two year deal worth $4M a year with an option year at
> > > > > > $5M with a $500K buyout.
>
> > > > > > So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
> > > > > > Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> > > > > I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again, and
> > > > > will be a Jacque Jones type lead-off hitter (i.e. one who has the
> > > > > potential to hit a home run).  It may not happen in 2009, but I think
> > > > > his hitting will continue to improve (it had better!).  Because of
> > > > > that, he will find himself batting lead off again, sooner rather than
> > > > > later.  So saith me.
>
> > > > > For what it's worth, I am glad the Twins signed Punto, though I am a
> > > > > little surprised at the price tag.  I was thinking more like $2
> > > > > million per year--maybe 3.  Nonetheless, as Scott said, if he plays
> > > > > like last year, he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> > > > > of MLB salaries, I mean).
>
> > > > > brianj
>
> > > > It's the glove, boys, it's the GLOVE! <g>
>
> > > >       AnnE who is very happy they signed Punto.  See?   I told
> > > > you!!    ;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Yes, but Anne, the trouble that everybody remembers (I know you do)
> > > was in 2007 when he hit .210.  Even then, he was very good
> > > defensively.  And don't get me wrong.  I like Punto and his defense.
> > > But if he is going to return to batting .210, then, no matter how good
> > > his glove is, I don't think he's worth having on the roster,
> > > regardless of his salary.  His batting average over the years has been
> > > pretty erratic (2003-2008: .217, .253, .239, .290, .210, .284, and
> > > he's a career .252 hitter) , and that is a little scary.  A .239
> > > season will bring out the ire of Twins fans everywhere.  But if he can
> > > consistently hit like he did in 2008, I think he will be worth every
> > > penny of his contract.  And he is fun to watch.
>
> > > brianj
>
> > Me remember?  Nah, that gets more difficult with age, believe me.
>
> > If the TWINS had a heavy hitter in the lineup...then you wouldn't care
> > how one player's average is, right?   Gosh, this sounds like a broken
> > record with you guys.  Didn't I hear the same thing with Dougie??  <G>
>
> >      [bad sentence above.....too early]          AnnE says he IS fun
> > to watch- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm sticking to my guns on the Dougie thing?
>
> brianj

Yeah, yeah, yeah....or blah, blah, blah! <g> I read just the other
day he is still playing and is still around. So there!

AnnE Go Dougie!
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto 

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, brianj wrote:
> On Dec 11, 3:41 pm, powrwrap wrote:
>> So who's going to bat 9th? Punto or Gomez? If Punto, where do you put
>> Gomez? Or will Punto bat 8th, then Gomez?
>
> I have a feeling that Gomez is going to learn how to hit again,

That, to me, is the crux of the issue. It's simply untenable to have
a CF be your number-nine hitter. If your CF is a gold glover, *maybe*
you put up with it. But (as I think Alan amply demonstrated last
season), for every wow moment from Gomez, there was at least one
head-scratcher. An (on balance) average defensive CF needs to hit
at least like an average CF.

So, Gomez *has* to learn how to hit again. Or else he's not going
to be anyone's starting CF, just a late innings role player. The
question, Gomez or Punto ninth, will solve itself. The best thing
from the Twins perspective will be if Gomez decides to listen to his
hitting coach. The second best will be to get him out of there.

> he is easily worth $4 million (by the crazy standards
> of MLB salaries, I mean).

That's the only standard worth discussion. And it's not crazy;
teams are run according to spreadsheets by hard headed businessmen.

If every player on a roster made $4M, you'd have a $100M roster.
That's more or less the going rate for a team to compete year in
and year out. There are better players than Punto making more, you
say? Sure. There are also the non-starters, and/or the young players
who make less. Kudos to the Twins for trying (and succeeding) at
competing at a lower price point than the Bostons and New Yorks.
But don't anyone kid yourself that $4M is crazy money for a slightly
below average major league SS. (And if vintage 2007 Punto returns and
he's more than just slightly below average, well, we're in no
disagreement about what a revolting development that would be and then
the $4M is not well spent.)

--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
Never despair; but if you do, work on in despair. -- Burke
 >> Stay informed about: The 2009 Starting SS--Nick Punto